Real world firearms usage??


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SamlautRanger
April 5, 2005, 09:25 AM
Just curious of how many people on this forum have actually discharged a firearm in a real world firefight, whether Military, Law Enforcement, or Personal Defense?

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iamkris
April 5, 2005, 09:33 AM
I'd guess that the ratio of military/police and/or those who have actually fired in self-defense to the rest of us is very small. Most of us "think" we're knowledgeable from all the forum posts we have. That said, there are several posters who DO have real world experience.

I've defended myself from a rabid gopher with a .22 and a fairly PO'd Russian Razorback boar with my 45 Colt Blackhawk. All other shooting is 4-position paper targets, cowboy action, 3-gun, trap and skeet.

If my enemies are 12"x12" steel plates...I'm ready.

Bear Gulch
April 5, 2005, 10:18 AM
The only time I fired my service arm on duty was to put down a horse that had been hit by a Suzuki Samari(sp) it's back was broken.

cls12vg30
April 5, 2005, 10:20 AM
The horse's back or the Suzuki's? Or both?

SamlautRanger
April 5, 2005, 10:21 AM
How was the damage to the Samuri?

20cows
April 5, 2005, 12:05 PM
After killing a horse, as long as the people are ok, I think the only rational thing to do is put that mad-dog Samuri down too.

I have used a Blackawk to discourge a bovine challenge. Fortunately a shot to the ground was sufficient. Things can be a little dicey on foot out in the open when they get pissed.

My 10 year old daughter, who innocent of the danger ran up when I was putting out some feed and got between a cow and her newborn calf. I stepped in to ward her off and another cow, the momma of the first, decided she wanted a piece of me. The .41 changed her mind.

Just yesterday I got an errant bull back home after a couple days of effort and he wasn't happy with me either. Fortunately I was able to step across a fence to get out of his way this time. I did have a .45 Colt handy though.

(Just one of the reasons I always carry out there. Maybe if I were a better cowboy, I wouldn't feel the need in this situation, but I've been a shooter a lot longer than I've been a rancher.)

RavenVT100
April 5, 2005, 12:27 PM
Define "used." Fired? No. Drawn? Yes. Fortunately for me at the time, some pellet guns look a hell of a lot deadlier than they actually are.

firesafety3
April 5, 2005, 12:45 PM
I've fired my 12 gauge at the ground to run off some locals going through my barn. I was 50 yards away but it seemed to do the trick.

Had a couple of guns pulled on me, but always walked away unscathed.

s&w 24
April 5, 2005, 01:29 PM
frankly this is a very rude question but it pops up about every 6 months. It's on the same level as asking if you have ever seen a fatal car crash.

Control Group
April 5, 2005, 01:38 PM
frankly this is a very rude question but it pops up about every 6 months. It's on the same level as asking if you have ever seen a fatal car crash.
Actually, it would never have occurred to me that asking someone if they've seen a fatal car crash is rude. I certainly wouldn't be offended if someone asked me that (and yes, I have seen a fatal car crash). Particularly in a forum where the question is directed at a group of people, not even to me personally.

I understand if it's something you don't want to talk about, but then...just don't. It's not like anyone called you or anyone else out by name, demanding an accounting of yourself. There are things I've done that I don't want to talk about in public, but somebody posting a general question on THR about them isn't going to offend me, I just won't volunteer the information.

Bear Gulch
April 5, 2005, 01:45 PM
Sorry for the hasty post (I was at work). The horses back was broken and it was dragging itself around by the front legs. The Sepeku was totaled. We estimated that the girl had been doing 75 when she applied here brakes. The driver was unharmed.

Werewolf
April 5, 2005, 02:35 PM
While serving in the US Army and stationed in Germany I had a cab driver pull a gun on me. Being young and stupid and a bit drunk I just reached up, swept my arm right and knocked it out of his hand.

To this day I remember the look on his face. That was one shocked cabby. After standing there for about 2 seconds he back pedaled about 4 or 5 feet into the street, lept back into his cab and hauled his sorry rear out of there.

The guy I was with just laughed. Told me that was the coolest thing he'd ever seen.

In retrospect it was actually a pretty stupid thing to do. I imagine that the gun probably was just a starter's pistol or something like it because I can't imagine that a German on the street driving a cab would have had a real gun with him. Still, I didn't know that then.

Now a days (33 years later) I'd never put myself in that kind of position (older and wiser I guess).

Jim K
April 5, 2005, 02:54 PM
In a period as a deputy sheriff, I drew my gun once, displayed it once, and told a person I was armed, once. Never fired a shot or had any real need to. The time I drew was on a drunk armed with a knife, but he dropped it on my orders, fell flat on the floor, and that was that.

The fact is that very few cops, even today, ever draw a gun or get into a gun fight. And even fewer civilians, armed legally or illegally, ever do. The movies, picturing cops or "super agency" types facing hundreds of heavily armed drug dealers, show a world of excitement with no relation to reality.

And a world in which civilians get away with routinely violating the law, shooting or blowing up bad guys by the dozens, and invoking some "Phoenix Foundation" or such BS to get away with it, just doesn't exist. Those vigilante guys would be serving life in prison before you could say "Swiss Army Knife."

Jim

Evil_Ed
April 5, 2005, 03:44 PM
Well, there was that time with all the ninja's.... :evil:

Never had to draw a weapon against another human being. I HAVE been in one situation where I SHOULD have drawn a weapon but didn't have one, was saved from a severe beating/stabbing by a very good friend with a CCW license (6 - 8 of them to 2 of us and my car wouldn't start so no retreat possible). Only things besides targets I have shot were a lot of snakes, a possibly rabid possum, and 1 angry trespassing brama bull with a load of rocksalt at a distance (he decided it was much better/safer to hang out on someone elses property after that). I grew up in rural area of Florida, we had 10 acres of our own woods and were surrounded on 3 sides by about 100+ acres of forest & wetlands so wildlife was plentiful. We even found a python once that someone must have dropped off out in the woods, he nearly got our dachsund.

thatguy
April 6, 2005, 10:01 AM
I don't think it's a rude question but some people don't like to talk about these things and the question does get asked from time to time.

When I was a young man I worked in some high-risk jobs and once I pulled my gun and displayed it, once I fired a warning shot, and once actually engaged in a gunfight. This was all 30 years ago and thank God my life is much more sedate, now.

SamlautRanger
April 6, 2005, 10:26 AM
My post was not really a question but more of a statement. Not trying to be rude, and did not mean to really want to hear about past shooting expereinces, as I know the emotional truama that comes with conflict. I have been in several wars and gunfights myself, and it is not something I really like to elaborate on. It was more of a statement for the many posters, some who are even stillin highschool, who are self-proclaimed experts but yet with no combat expereince. I like post that back up self defense or military firearms usage with real world expereince or firearms usage in hunting sitiuations backed up by real hunting expereinces. This is not to say there are not some really good shooters and firearms instructors who have never seen the elephant, yet can still teach pretty good.

s&w 24
April 6, 2005, 01:46 PM
I see your point I guess I'm just frustrated with some people that seem fixated on the blood and gore details of fighting. If you carry a weapon for personal or profesional reasons you must come to terms with what this weapon is made for(I.E. wounding/killing) and getting realy world reports on what can happen is good I just get realy pissed at the people that would walk up to a cop or a military service person and say "hey man have you ever capped someone?"

Preacherman
April 6, 2005, 01:59 PM
SamlautRanger, most of those who've BTDT won't talk about it in any detail, and most of those who talk about it in any detail haven't BTDT. That's a useful general rule for this sort of discussion.

bill2
April 6, 2005, 02:26 PM
SamlautRanger, most of those who've BTDT won't talk about it in any detail, and most of those who talk about it in any detail haven't BTDT. That's a useful general rule for this sort of discussion.
________________________________

Yep, in a shorter version, as someone once told me: those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know. applies to sex, fights, etc. yes, there are some exceptions, but this general rule works pretty well.

trooper
April 6, 2005, 04:06 PM
Drew my gun on duty once, never discharged it. I probably will at some point, though - there is an awful lot of car accidents involving roe deer around here :neener:

Seriously, I don't care about the blood and gore thing but I think first hand accounts of gunfights (or any fights, for that matter) could be an important source of real-world information for those of us who honestly try to prepare themselves for such a situation. Of course, if someone who has seen the elephant doesn't want to talk about it I'd respect that.


Regards,

Trooper

Gun Wielding Maniac
April 6, 2005, 05:27 PM
Two gunfights in Iraq. One in which I fired my weapon...

Useful tips to be drawn from that experience. When you are forced to search people and give up your long-arm and are handed a pistol... Make sure you check the number of rounds in the magazine and get spare magazines. The weapon I had to use was the one I had the least amount of experience with out of all the weapons available in the arms room. Second, dont stand on the shoulder of the road as a truck passes while everyone else is on the other side of the road shooting at said truck. Third, if someone tells you that the guy is dead, dont poke your head in the window to get a look. :what:

SamlautRanger
April 6, 2005, 08:29 PM
Yes, I get really pissed when people find out I was a soldier before and have served in several wars and they ask if I have ever killed anybody or shot anybody. What type of idiot ask that question. I usually just reply with "war is a terrible thing" or "that is not really an appropriate question to ask a veteran"

The only people who want to see war are those who have never seen it. And if you have not seen it, it is hard for veterans to relate to you.

Unfortunately, I believe our society is getting more numb to violence with the video games, horror-violent movies.

Good books to read "on Killing" and "Combat" by lt col Grossman.

Joey2
April 6, 2005, 10:34 PM
Yea , right next door to you, but farther north.

cslinger
April 6, 2005, 10:57 PM
SamlautRanger, most of those who've BTDT won't talk about it in any detail, and most of those who talk about it in any detail haven't BTDT. That's a useful general rule for this sort of discussion.

Yep truer words.......


The only people who want to see war are those who have never seen it.

Also true to an extent. I personally never want to ever have to draw down on anything that has or has had a mother. I will stick to my targets that do not bleed thank you very much. I have never been in a real armed conflict and that suits me just fine, but I am a reasonably intelligent pragmetist who would just assume keep to my nice non-bleeding, non shooting back targets.

Truth be known the great, great majority of us will never ever have to wield a firearm in anger and that my friends is a great blessing. I am always ready to protect my family, friends and myself but have no illusions about wanting to do so.

So all that being said I think most folks who have actually had to take a life in war or self defense don't really like to talk about it all that much because basically if you are the average human being taking a life is very very upsetting.

Taking another's life, even some scumbag who is trying to take yours, should always be unsettlling. Life is precious and taking it is serious business and that is how it should be.

Guess that makes me a wimp huh? :rolleyes:

swacje41
April 7, 2005, 12:25 AM
Seriously, I don't care about the blood and gore thing but I think first hand accounts of gunfights (or any fights, for that matter) could be an important source of real-world information for those of us who honestly try to prepare themselves for such a situation.
A big problem with that (as has been amply demonstrated multiple times on other forums) is when that real-world information conflicts with so many of the cherished beliefs of the uninformed. Most people don't want to be told most of their training is irrelevant, the tactics they've practiced won't work, the skills thay have honed won't be used, and so on. There is a lot of real-world information available, most just don't want to hear it.

ojibweindian
April 7, 2005, 08:45 AM
I've drawn on people twice. Never had to shoot.

AirForceShooter
April 7, 2005, 08:54 AM
in combat I've fired for effect:

M-16
Fal 7.62
.45 auto
BHP
Remmy pump 12 ga.
.45 Grease Gun

They all work , all were effective.

AFS

Gunsnrovers
April 7, 2005, 08:59 AM
Have only been on the receiving end.

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