Demilling U.S. M14s


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hso
April 5, 2005, 09:20 PM
I've heard a rumor that the U.S. military has let a contract to a local gunshop to demil M14s by disassembly and then shipping the receivers back, presumably for destruction. Anyone heard of this also?

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Pilgrim
April 5, 2005, 10:43 PM
It seems to me to be an unusual rumor since there is a big demand on M-14 stocks to flesh out Army and Marine rifle squads with designated marksmen armed with 7.62x51mm NATO rifles.

Pilgrim

bamawrx
April 5, 2005, 10:57 PM
I saw several M-14 marked receivers built up into semi M1A's at the recent Birmingham, AL gunshow. I posted a question on this board about the "once a machine gun always a machine gun rule" that was rumored to have been changed. Everyone here seemed to think it was not true, but how then do you explain all the M-14's? These are U.S. marked M-14 receivers with "special" documentation that showed they were rebuilt into legal guns.

Maybe the rumor hso heard has to do with this company that is rebuilding them.

Trebor
April 5, 2005, 11:32 PM
I've heard a rumor that the U.S. military has let a contract to a local gunshop to demil M14s by disassembly and then shipping the receivers back, presumably for destruction. Anyone heard of this also?

I very much doubt it. M-14's are being reissued for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, some of those rifles are being rebuilt into different configurations and I believe some of that work has been contracted out to private concerns. Possibly that's were this is coming from?



I saw several M-14 marked receivers built up into semi M1A's at the recent Birmingham, AL gunshow. I posted a question on this board about the "once a machine gun always a machine gun rule" that was rumored to have been changed. Everyone here seemed to think it was not true, but how then do you explain all the M-14's? These are U.S. marked M-14 receivers with "special" documentation that showed they were rebuilt into legal guns.



I'd have to see some pictures on these. There are a couple companies selling semi-auto M-14 clones that are actually marked "M-14" and not "M-1A." That's because "M-1A" is actually a registered trademark of Springfield Armory, Inc. and is not just a generic term for a commercial, semi-auto M-14.


There were also rifles made by MKS that were made from demilled receivers that were welded back together. The ATF ruled that these were still legally machine guns and started to confiscate them after many were sold. They are still some out there though as the ATF wasn't able to follow the trail of all of them. MKS used to include a letter from the ATF written about 20 years previously to another manufacturer as "proof" that their rifles were legal. It didn't do any good in the end.

MrMurphy
April 5, 2005, 11:49 PM
There's currently more M-14s in active service overseas now, than at any time since the adoption of the M-16 forty years ago. They're not going to be destroying any!

Jeff White
April 6, 2005, 12:08 AM
There were never that many M14s produced. McNamara stopped production before they ever managed to equip the entire military with them. Over the years we sold a lot of them to Taiwan and Honduras the Phillipines as well as a few other countries through the Foreign Military Sales Program.

We're rapidly using up the rest in the GWOT. There just aren't any spare M14s to demil.

Jeff

hso
April 6, 2005, 10:04 AM
Re-reading my post I didn't make it as clear as I could have.

A local shop owner has told a friend of mine he has signed the paperwork for a contract to demil 700 M14s. He'll keep the parts, send the receivers back, and be paid a nominal amount for each rifle disassembled. He'll sell the parts as "kits" to make his money. He has committed to selling one of the kits to my friend.

The better question would have been to ask if anyone knows of this being done at any other location.

ChevellRCR
April 6, 2005, 10:48 AM
I wonder what kind of price he is wanting to get for the parts kits?

bamawrx
April 6, 2005, 01:05 PM
The M-14's I saw had missing selector switches, gov stamps, and atf letter (which I didn't see but was told it came with one). These were not some semi-auto receivers with M-14 markings. (give me some credit) These were M-14's at some point. I didn't check to see if they were rewelds. Even if they were rewelds, how is that not in violation of "once machine gun always machine gun rule"? I think the rule is stupid anyway and I hope it is changed.

30 cal slob
April 6, 2005, 01:14 PM
Unless you want to save a few bucks or want a historical weapon, why bother with a de-milled/reweld receiver and parts kit?

There are plenty of nice match-grade M1/A's sitting on gun shop shelves for the picking.

By the way, has anyone seen the newest SOCOM version?

AZ Jeff
April 6, 2005, 01:52 PM
The total number of M14's ever made was about 1.4 million when production stopped in 1963.

The following is from memory, but originally gleened from Culver's Shooting Page at Jouster.com:

After attrition, gifts to friendly countries, etc., it's estimated that about 200K are left in inventory in the US DOD. Of that 200K, a large percentage (50% or more) are not serviceable, and are being used for parts to keep the others in service.

So....that leaves around 100K M14's that can actually be fielded, if needed. That's not many, given the current demands of the "war on terror". Thus, ATF issues with the "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" thought aside, the US DOD is NEVER likely to release to civilians a rifle that is already in short supply.

simon
April 6, 2005, 02:07 PM
By the way, has anyone seen the newest SOCOM version?

Beautiful rifle!!! :cool:

Saw a couple at the Costa Mesa show last weekend.
SOG had them.

Sam Adams
April 6, 2005, 04:05 PM
A local shop owner has told a friend of mine he has signed the paperwork for a contract to demil 700 M14s. He'll keep the parts, send the receivers back, and be paid a nominal amount for each rifle disassembled. He'll sell the parts as "kits" to make his money. He has committed to selling one of the kits to my friend.


Here's the solution: the receivers are being sent back, as in to the US military. In other words, the military wants bare-bones receivers, to which they will presumeably add barrels, trigger groups, stocks, sights, etc. to make a better rifle than a modified existing M-14 would be for the "Designated Marksmen." Perhaps it is not worth the government's time to demil the M14s (and, after all, its our money that will be going to this particular shop owner - its not like money is an issue).

The explanation above has no hint that the bare receivers will be sold to the public, only that the PARTS will be sold by this dealer. Sans the receiver, none of the parts (except the selector switch and associated hardware) would remotely qualify as a machine gun.

Wingshooter
April 6, 2005, 04:20 PM
One of the guys I work with says he has one of these guns. Funny that he mentioned it about 2 weeks ago. I haven't gotten a chance to get all the detail on it (don't see him too often) but he said his was an M14 rifle with an M1A reciever IIRC. I'll ask him more details about it next time I see him and post back.

Trebor
April 6, 2005, 04:24 PM
The M-14's I saw had missing selector switches, gov stamps, and atf letter (which I didn't see but was told it came with one). These were not some semi-auto receivers with M-14 markings. (give me some credit) These were M-14's at some point. I didn't check to see if they were rewelds. Even if they were rewelds, how is that not in violation of "once machine gun always machine gun rule"? I think the rule is stupid anyway and I hope it is changed.

The rewelds *were* in violation of the "once a MG, always a MG rule." That's why the ATF got the names of the buyers from MKS and went around and confiscated all the guns they could find. That's why MKS went out of business.

The guns looked just like real M-14's because they were made from the demilled halves welded back together. MKS used the original serial number as the "new" serial number for record keeping purposes. I beleve MKS marked their name as the "new" manufacturer in an unobtrustive spot. Much of the selling point for these guns was that they looked like the real GI deal.

geekWithA.45
April 6, 2005, 04:43 PM
I recall reading somewhere in the history of the M-14 that a VERY small number of mil m-14s were permanently de-auto'd, and released into the CMP (or was it ROTC?)

I don't remember the deal clearly....

bamawrx
April 6, 2005, 04:55 PM
The seller did say that the company that manufactured the rifle had their information stamped somewhere on the rifle. It would require a field strip to get that information, so the rifle(s) I observed were probably one of the MKS deals or something similar.

So, it sounds like the rifle was not legal. It sure looked cool. At the same show you could also buy torch cut M-14 receivers.

entropy
April 6, 2005, 05:01 PM
I'll bet that post's (or activity's) PDO Officer will get his tail end handed to him when his higherups find out, unless as Sam Adams suggests, they will be rebuilt from the ground up as DM rifles. I am a bit fuzzy as to why they would let the shop breaking them down keep all the parts. The (at least Army's, I can attest to) armory heirarchy tends to re-use parts until out of spec, or when applicable, bring them back into spec. That's a lot of useable parts for them to be giving away!
I hear my neighbor out shooting. Sorry, gotta go! :)


m-14s were permanently de-auto'd, and released into the CMP (or was it ROTC?) Well, it wasn't U of Minn. ROTC c.1981. We had to borrow M16A1's from the 205 Inf. Bde. , and our D&C weapons were Garands.
[Please, no D&C jokes, you doctors out there.] :p

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