All the Negative Hype about brand X guns.


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PinnedAndRecessed
April 6, 2005, 05:28 PM
I love this forum. I've learned more after being here a short time than 50 years of asking questions of gun store commandos.

But one thing I've noticed is how passionate we are about brands of guns we like. And we can spot flaws in guns we don't like, a mile a way.

Fact is, we like brand x because we choose to do so. We adjust and accomodate to its imperfections, because all guns have imperfections.

I'm 6'6" tall. I used to love sports cars. But sports cars aren't made for tall people. So I would scrunch down and shove the gear shift lever against my calf and tear around town with a backache. But I put up with it because I chose to do so.

It's the same with guns. They all have good. They all have bad. I own Beretta, Smith, Colt, Ruger, Remington, Sig. Some have worked flawlessly. Some have had significant necessary improvements. But I love them all.

All the major firearms manufacturers make good guns. Kimber, Springfield, Kahr, as well as the ones I've named, are good guns. We simply put up with the imperfections. Kind of like the wart on your lovely beloved's foot. It's there, but you don't care.

So to all the newbies and first time gun buyers, don't fret too much about brand x vs. brand y. They're all good. (And if you don't like them, pm me and I'll give you, say, ten cents on the dollar for what you paid.)

;)

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ZeroX
April 6, 2005, 05:33 PM
What of Raven, Bryco, Jennings, etc. (I think there's a fourth in there somewhere)?

BryanP
April 6, 2005, 05:35 PM
Brand x vs Brand y is a non-issue. Except for SIG because SIG's rule. :evil:

ZeroX
April 6, 2005, 05:38 PM
Brand x vs Brand y is a non-issue. Except for SIG because SIG's rule.

Nuh uh, CZs are king!

:neener:

PinnedAndRecessed
April 6, 2005, 06:04 PM
What of Raven, Bryco, Jennings, etc. (I think there's a fourth in there somewhere)?

Some brands have never been touted as credible on THR. That's presupposed. I'm mostly addressing the flame wars about Smith vs. Ruger, etc.

Much of the negative about what I read relates to the politics of the various gun makers concerning business decisions. Bill Ruger made a decision about civilians and magazine capacity. Colt made a decision about what features to offer to the public. Smith struck a deal with Clintoon, etc.

Business is business. They did what they did because that's their business. I still bought their products. Arnold outlawed the 50 cal in Cal. I still watch his movies.

itgoesboom
April 6, 2005, 06:58 PM
All Guns Suck.... Or, life according to internet experts.

Colt's not civilian friendly.
Ruger sold us out.
Smith&Wesson are traitors.
HK guns are too complicated/expensive and are used by snobs.
Beretta's slides will break off and smack you in the face.
Glocks Blowup, and if it doesn't, you will surely shoot yourself with it.
CZs are commie guns.
Sigs rust.
Kahrs are owned by the moonies.
AR-15s are unreliable and won't shoot more than 20 rounds without a jam.
M-4s are too short and have too much crap hanging off them, and are unreliable and won't shoot more than 20 rounds without a jam, and if you own one you are a poser.
AK47s are inaccurate. Don't count on being able to hit a barn from 25 meters.
Makarovs are cheap commie guns made of pot metal.
SKS is a cheap commie gun made of pot metal that will go full auto.
1911s have to be fiddled with or they won't work.

Did I leave anyone/anything out?

Part of the issue here is that if I buy brand X, I will recommend brand X to everyone to validate my decision. Brand Y is now junk, even if it is the coolest thing in the world.

I.G.B.

BTW, some of the things listed above are actually TRUE :evil:

Combat-wombat
April 6, 2005, 07:18 PM
IGB: Springfield XD.

itgoesboom
April 6, 2005, 07:23 PM
Combat-Wombat...


The XD9 is perfect....I know, cuz I own one. :neener:

I.G.B.

Clean97GTI
April 6, 2005, 07:42 PM
XD's rust sooner than anything else.
SA tried passing it off as brown chrome, but had limited success. Oh yeah, they are commie guns too. Croatian combat tupperware.

itgoesboom
April 6, 2005, 07:50 PM
Clean,

How dare you insult the pistol that I carry, that is a personal insult..... :cuss:

Ok...my sanity has been restored.

I was honestly hoping that someone would correct me about the XD so that I could make my point about "whatever gun I have is perfect, everything else sucks".

I.G.B.

Crosshair
April 6, 2005, 07:52 PM
itgoesboom

Did I leave anyone/anything out?

Yup,

Hi-Point pistols are made of 2 liter bottles and jam every round. :neener:
Wichester stoped making quality guns after 1964
Howa rifles are made by the japs. (I own one, geat gun)
Ithaca doesn't have many aftermarket parts (Love my 37 Police Special :D )
Savage rifles are Winchester knockoffs (I HATE this one.:fire: )

/I have actualy talked with a number of people who report that Hi-Point has solved the QC problems of a few years ago. Anyone know about them making hi-cap magazines for the carbines?

Standing Wolf
April 6, 2005, 08:36 PM
I've learned more after being here a short time than 50 years of asking questions of gun store commandos.

If you hang around this site longer than about 25 minutes, you're probably more knowledgeable than 95% of gun shop commandos.

CleverName
April 6, 2005, 09:01 PM
M 14's are too heavy. Nobody could control FA on one.

XD's will prematurely slide lock and get you killed in a gunfight.

FAL's? Remington?

itgoesboom
April 6, 2005, 09:06 PM
Clevername....

FALs are too heavy, and cant be controlled full auto. Plus the sights suck because the rear sights are too exposed.

Remington sucks because they released the 710, which everyone knows will blow up spontaneously if shot more than 20 rounds a year.

Also, Remington sucks becuase of the safety of the model 700, cuz everyone knows that as soon as the safey comes off it goes boom.

See? No matter who makes it, now matter how expensive it is, people can and will bash it.

I.G.B.

ceetee
April 6, 2005, 11:14 PM
There's a thread on Hi-Points over on Tuco's First Shot Reviews. (http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11811)

A guy posts occasionally as one of Hi-Point's design team. Even though everybody wants hi-cap magazines for the carbines, he says they're not planning on putting any out because the rifle was designed around a single-stack magazine, and they had too many problems trying to make a long single-stack magazine feed properly. They would have to re-design the grip to fit a double-stack magazine, then mail out new grips to everybody, along with a grip adapter so that the single-stack mags would still be able to work. Either that or just discontinue the present grip, leaving all their current customers unable to use the new magazines...

His tone seems to be that Hi-Point will do nearly anything to avoid alienating a current or potential customer... hence their almost legendary reputation for customer service.

P95Carry
April 6, 2005, 11:38 PM
''Slamming'' of another model other than your fave is fine - if done with manners and maybe tongue partly in cheek! Sad thing is how heated the ''hate debates'' gave gotten - when there is no need for such vitreol.

I favor barnds x and Y over z maybe but - I also give credence to other folk's opinions and experience. I am really not sure why folks get so up tight about it all. :rolleyes: :p

Of course - SIG's rock... but so do other platforms! :)

kirkcdl
April 7, 2005, 12:32 AM
Of course,once you've owned a Para-Ordnance,ALL others suck!


(Just keeping in the spirit of the thread... :p )

entropy
April 7, 2005, 05:24 PM
Geez....every brand I own sucks! :eek: :p
What I've found with guns is it's the individual gun that either sucks or is the greatest thing since bread came sliced. According to lots of people, my Kel-Tec 9mm carbine sucks for myraid reasons, but in truth only because it hangs up. Two freinds that have them have had no problems whatsoever. One of them also owns a .40 cal. Hi-Point carbine, purportedly junk, yet it has never had any kind of failure with factory or reloaded ammo. Hmm.
I'm waiting for my Yugo SKS to go full auto on me. Either it doesn't have 'da switch' or it is faulty. :neener: My Mosins are of course, cheap commie crap, yet outshoot my 1903A3, except one with a sewer pipe barrel, which still is a 100 yd 'pie plate' gun.
I've heard so much bad about 742's, yet mine came up perfect every time, and outshot many of my Dad's bolt '06's. He won't give it back to me. (long story.) My Dad had a Jennings .22 :what: and while I wouldn't recommend it as a CCW, it was used as such, and even fired when asked (nicely) to. :eek:
Most of what I call 'gunfeel' (borrowed from 'mouthfeel' ,a homebrewing term), is where people form opinions about a gun. It can be ergonomics, (if it feels good, shoot it :) ) reliability, (Yeah my Xbrand is ugly, but it goes bang every time I pull the trigger), maybe that 'cool factor' that sells so many red sports cars, (OK, I don't need a Les Baer M1911A1 for HD, but man that's a cool lookin' gun..), or what it does to the target; I had a friend that shot trap for a whole season with an 870 that tore his cheek open every time he shot it, but he was shooting a 24 avg. , so he lived with it. :uhoh: (He's not the brightest light bulb in the chandelier, to be sure.) And finally, far too many of us are influenced by what others say about a gun. If they are speaking from personal experience, or 'were there' (as I was with my freind with the 870) , that's different than if they are parroting what they heard in the range latrine. The problem is you just don't always know.
I prefer to hold what I've heard about a certain brand or make of weapon tentatively , until I can hold/fire one myself, and even then realize the opinion I form is only valid for that one weapon. Works with people, too. ;)

30 cal slob
April 7, 2005, 05:59 PM
Pffffft.

Somebody forgot to mention that Glocks will melt in the microwave.

kngflp
April 7, 2005, 07:02 PM
Supposedly the new hi-points in .45 acp will have a 15 rd mag.

kirkcdl
April 7, 2005, 08:54 PM
Entropy,if you're having trouble with your KT carbine,go to www.KTOG.org
Lot's of info there,it's helped me correct every problem I have had with my beloved KelTec collection...

CB900F
April 7, 2005, 09:14 PM
Pinned&Recessedl;

My vote for the one you forgot is Lorcin. Of course, there is also the miscegnated relationship between Legos GMBH & a neighboring State's military establishment, but if I were to mention that, cyber-frothing would ensue. So I won't do that.

900F

lee n. field
April 7, 2005, 10:07 PM
Makarovs are cheap commie guns made of pot metal.
SKS is a cheap commie gun made of pot metal that will go full auto.

Maks and SKSen are cheap commie guns made out of steel!, and don't you forget it. :) :) :)

Bear Gulch
April 7, 2005, 10:19 PM
Sig is not even a full name! What is it short for? :neener:

P95Carry
April 7, 2005, 10:33 PM
Bear - it's an acronym ... ''Superior Interdiction Gun'' ! :D

TrybalRage
April 7, 2005, 10:43 PM
If you think all guns are imperfect, you haven't owned a Glock yet :neener:


And get your chick to a podiatrist, dude. Seriously.

Redneck Revolver
April 8, 2005, 09:17 AM
If you think all guns are imperfect, you haven't owned a Glock yet
you're right. we'd all appriceate(sp) our firearms more if we HAD to use of of those ugly plastic paper weights :evil:

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