[jnojr]

This past weekend, my girlfriend and I flew. She had a lighter in her purse. Somehow, the subject came up around one of the TSA gorillas, who told her that the ban on lighters and matches went into effect on April 14th.

Wait a minute... if fire is too dangerous to be allowed on our planes, why wait until then? Why not have them banned now??? Conversely, if we can wait to ban them, then they clearly are not a danger, so why are they being banned?

I about chewed a hole through my tongue to not get into this at the time... doubtless, I would be put on a list to be sent to secondary and strip-searched every time I tried to fly. :cuss:

[garyk/nm]

AHAAA!!! New business opportunity! Lighter rentals at stopover airport smoking lounges! $.50 a flick.

So, how many years have we had lighters and matches on flights? :banghead:

[mbs357]

Pretty soon everything will be banned from planes, even people.

[Standing Wolf]

Those new high capacity semi-automatic sniper assault lighters can attack an aircraft from up to five miles away. They're one of the first choices of terrorists. They're available at gun shows without background checks.

Bush has done nothing to prevent this terrible tragedy.

[NukemJim]

The reason that I read for the ban on lighters ( I am not saying it makes any sense however) is that if the "shoe bomber" on the airplane had had a lighter instead of a match that he would have been able to light the fuse for his bomb.

Pleas note I did not say that it makes any sense to me, but hey do not forget we are talking about TSA here :cuss: :banghead: :mad:

NukemJim

[jnojr]

It won't be long before, in order to board a plane, you'll have to be stripped naked and shackled, legs and arms. And when people raise security alarms by complaining about it, then gags, or drugging will also be required. Better add a blindfold, too... can't have people see how TSA works, because they could then think about ways to defeat security :rolleyes:

[benewton]

Due to the road warrior role I now get to perform, I now get to fly once a month, round trip, I hope, of course.

I depend on probability, not the TSA, for safety....

After all, how many times against how many flights?


So, upon arrival, I leave my Swiss army knife in the truck, along with any spare change, and now, my lighter. I can still take a few packages of matches on board, of course....

Absolute BS!

And, just for grins, I wonder if the IQ of the TSA, as a whole, exceeds 60.



Oh yes, and, by the way, should something happen while you're airborne, you're supposed to jump up, unarmed and unprotected, of course, to cure the situation.

Like I said, all BS, and I depend on probability, which is a poor substitute for judgement.

On the other hand, at least it's myself, and not the wife, at risk.

Will an intellegent thought ever enter into the discussion regarding the TSA, and just when can I expect this crap to end?

[Greg L]

Those new high capacity semi-automatic sniper assault lighters can attack an aircraft from up to five miles away. They're one of the first choices of terrorists. They're available at gun shows without background checks.

Bush has done nothing to prevent this terrible tragedy.


:what:

I didn't count but I think that the 100 character limit was passed for a SW post.

Could someone in the area send out a search party to make sure that he is ok? Thanks.

:evil:

[10shooter]

I will tell you the dangers of lighters. If I use a wire to keep the lighter on and place it next to another the explosion is pretty good. If I place one lit down under a group of lighters wired together than the explosion is pretty big. Some lighters are much bigger than others. If I'm a train bast**d then I can use detonaters wired in the middle of a handful of lighters. Detonators for those of you who have never played with them contain little metal and are small. Batteries can be placed in small electronics (harmless). Timers are called watches (still harmless). So do we ban watches, all electronics and pat down passengers like a jail booking or do we just limit the explosives (lighters) allowed on board. Now multiply the contraband by the number of thugs on board and we could build what left in the bathroom.

[Standing Wolf]

I didn't count but I think that the 100 character limit was passed for a SW post.
Could someone in the area send out a search party to make sure that he is ok? Thanks.

Old Standing Wolf's just fine, thanks. That was 274 characters, counting spaces. I'm doing lots of nicotine gum and extra aspirin these days, which have helped the arthritis. I'm sure I'll recover my usual concision as soon as the hands stiffen up again.

[Joejojoba111]

I believe that's not explosion, but deflagration, and it would do no damage.

[10shooter]

Have you ever tried lighter on lighters detonation. I have and they do explode.

[EOD Guy]

There is no prohibition for matchs. Up to 3 books of matches will still be allowed in carry on baggage. The ban on all lighters will not go in to effect until next week (the 14th). There has always been a ban on lighters containing unabsorbed liquid fuel, even before 9-11. It just wasn't always enforced.

I've worked with Federal and State laws and regulations for most of my adult life and one of the first things I learned was that using logic or common sense in interpreting them will only get you in trouble.

[Greg L]

Old Standing Wolf's just fine, thanks. That was 274 characters, counting spaces. I'm doing lots of nicotine gum and extra aspirin these days, which have helped the arthritis. I'm sure I'll recover my usual concision as soon as the hands stiffen up again.

That's good, er, bad :( . My lower back, knees & ankles are the same due to too much fun as a youngster & the ensuing arthritis :( .

Ah well, I have an excuse why I just shot the damn SOB, I can't run away :D .

[Don't Tread On Me]

The reason that I read for the ban on lighters ( I am not saying it makes any sense however) is that if the "shoe bomber" on the airplane had had a lighter instead of a match that he would have been able to light the fuse for his bomb.


Ah, that famous IF. The anti-rights, anti-gun, anti-everything crowds favorite fear mongering word.

IF they had this, IF they had that.....when will people see them for who they are? If you want to take IF to its most logical conclusion, this posters statement will hold true:

Pretty soon everything will be banned from planes, even people.

That statement is pure genious. Hits the nail right in the head.



They blame matches and lighters, all while this guy had a BOMB in his shoe (or his shoe was a bomb). Shouldn't they instead concern themselves with their failure to prevent an explosive device from being brought on the plane, rather than blame matches or lighters?

3,000 Americans dead. Cause? 19 terrorists. Not toe nail clippers.

3,000 Americans dead. Method used to hijack planes - box cutters. Not guns.


The way I see it, the entire airport security system should be trashed, and heads should roll. 30+ years of technology, salaries, and infrastructure completely and totally wasted. All that was accomplished was the emboldening of the State to levy its big brother authority over the American people.


Just like the latest school shooting in Minnesota. Tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of schools nation wide have spends tens of thousands of dollars EACH on metal detection systems.

What exactly makes them believe that a psycopath, who is determined to kill everyone in the school, will be deterred by an alarm or beeping sound? What makes them think that a metal detector will stop someone who premeditates an assault on a school?

Exactly how much do you think a mass killer cares or thinks about his "getting busted" by a metal detector as he is preparing his weapons to slaughter dozens of people?

Say the alarm does go off, say it buys the school that well earned 10 more seconds of early warning, how exactly did the metal detector stop the problem of kids wanting to shoot up their school. Exactly how do those detectors actually protect lives?


Not much different from 9-11 if you really, honestly look at it. We go back to square one - deterrance. Schools get shot up all the time, compare that to how many police stations, military installations and gun shows that get shot up each year.


Doesn't anyone else see the instanity?


It all boils down to this for me personally. Eventually, you come to understand all of these things (and there are countless accounts of them) and you either believe that the government and those in charge are completely stupid 2-digit IQ cretins, or that they do things deliberately. I believe the latter. They've proven that they are not interested in your safety, then why the attempts at so-called "safety measures". My guess would be to desensitize and increase the greater public acceptance of police-state tactics, behaviors, interaction and policies. Kids won't grow up and be offended by metal detection, demands for ID, searches, check points and other abuses of liberty when they clearly experience all of that by the 8th grade. All while part of their education actually reinforces the governemnt explaination as to "why" it is all being done-


It's for your safety, DUH!

[mbs357]

Those new high capacity semi-automatic sniper assault lighters can attack an aircraft from up to five miles away. They're one of the first choices of terrorists. They're available at gun shows without background checks.

Bush has done nothing to prevent this terrible tragedy.
Let's not forget the children.

[hkOrion]

I had a zippo lighter taken out of my CHECKED luggage when flying from CO to FL last year (April, 2004). I get to my hotel and get a nice notice that someone from the TSA has kindly removed the offending item. Some asshat in Denver is walking around with my zippo, and I was not happy.

I reviewed the regs, and apparently it has something to do with explosive devices - which zippos apparently are. despite the fact that it had NO fluid in it and couldn't even light, I guess there was the chance that it might spontaneously combust and destroy the plane. whatever.

edited for sp.

[fedlaw]

I've worked with Federal and State laws and regulations for most of my adult life and one of the first things I learned was that using logic or common sense in interpreting them will only get you in trouble.

I had a zippo lighter taken out of my CHECKED luggage when flying from CO to FL last year (April, 2004). I get to my hotel and get a nice notice that someone from the TSA has kindly removed the offending item. Some asshat in Denver is walking around with my zippo, and I was not happy.

My former boss, still a high ranking government official, was flying from FL to Chicago last January when he had his cigar lighter confiscated. The funny part: The screener had no problem with the SIG on his hip, only with the lighter. She explained to him that his badge and ID allowed him to carry firearms on board, not fire.

[CAS700850]

fedlaw,

I had something recently occur which matches your story. We sent a couple of officers to extradite an individual back from Florida. Upon arrival at the airport, they check in, show credentials to TSA types, as well as certification that they have both passed the mandatory "flying while armed" classes. As they are processing through, one TSA asks about a knife on officer's pocket. He has a Spyderco on his front pocket. (Both in plainclothes). Told he can't take the knife on the plane, it's prohibited. Yes, he can carry his Glock 30, with 31 rounds of ammo, his partner carrying a Glock 23, and they wanted him to leave his "dangerous" pocketknife behind.

Oh well...

[Daemon688]

I thought they were only banned on your carryons. Besides that how many airlines allow smoking?

[0007]

I had 'em try to take a 6" set of channel-lock pliers out of my carry-on when I was getting on a domestic flight. This was after having passed through four international terminals previously on the way to the domestic con-nection. I keep the pliers in a baggie along with spare wing-nuts to repair the carry-on... Finally talked the shift-supervisor into letting me pass.

As an aside the really small Bic lighters won't set off the metal detectors...

[Zundfolge]

Oh yes, and, by the way, should something happen while you're airborne, you're supposed to jump up, unarmed and unprotected, of course, to cure the situation.

No you're not, you're supposed to sit there and die quietly like a good serf. :banghead:

[molonlabe]

Will an intellegent thought ever enter into the discussion regarding the TSA, and just when can I expect this crap to end?

When the flying public says enough.

I don't fly anymore. but get 50 people to agree on anything.

Sheep is sheep

You is you

and me is me.