[Onmilo]

WOW!
I had my reservations having had to deal with some of the really odd 91 and Cetme 58 clones coming out of Century and Federal Arms but I bit and man I am IMPRESSED with the PTR-91.
This is an American made CLONE of the original German H&K 91.
Fit, Finish, functioning are identical or better than the original.

These guns had some teething pains during start up but rest assured they problems have been corrected.

I fired 200 rounds last night, no issues and better accuracy, as advertised, than the original H&K 91.
I have fired several originals so I do have a basis for comparison.

The barrel is heavier than the original, my rifle has a flash hider that is blind pinned to the barrel.
No bayonet lug but who cares?
The flash hider is effective and it didn't fall off or become loose nor does it affect accuracy, this rifle can shoot.
The rifle isn't sub minute match grade, at least not yet, but I didn't expect it to be, no disappointment there.
Portugese and South African stays within three inches at 100 meters and that works for me.
I know this rifle will do better with Match grade stuff but I didn't have any with me, next time. :)

I am seriously considering adding a German Hensholt(sic?) scope and claw mount to the gun since these are becoming available at reasonable prices and I may see just how well I can get this rifle to group.

If my wife finds the data sticks for the camara I may post some pictures if anybody has an interest.

If you are wanting an H&K 91 style rifle, don't want to spend two grand for an original but are willing to spend the extra money this rifle costs over the really cheap clones, consider buying one of these, I am happy with this choice.

[akviper]

FWIW. H & K didn't use a bayonet lug like most military rifles. There was a socket on the end of the cocking tube above the barrel. The bayonet had a stud on the end of the handle that fit into a spring loaded lock in the socket placing the bayonet handle above the barrel. The socket wasn't very noticeable. My 1974 H & K 93 had a simple removable plug in the end of the cocking tube. H & K sold the socket part as an optional "bayonet adapter". Of course I bought it and never used it once.

[Destructo6]

Glad you are happy with your purchase. That's been pretty consistent with the JLD guns.

There's at least two different types of HK bayonet. Both fit above the barrel. One, as mentioned above, uses and adaptor that replaces the cocking tube end cap. The other has the adaptor built into the pommel of the bayonet, as such:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK_BayonetEickornWirecutterA.jpg

[nordaim]

I would be interested in seeing pictures. I am considering going the PTR-91 for my EBR and would love more information. There are few reviews and the info on here has not quite filled my curiotity.

[Dread Pirate 257 Roberts]

My gunsmith has spoke favorably of the JLD PTR-91's on a couple of occasions. He's one of very few people I've learned to listen to about guns.

[Destructo6]

Furious Styles, that's the type that requires an adaptor. The adaptor replaces the cocking tube end cap in the triple frame, as such:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK_Bayonet_Adapter.jpg

[Billy Sparks]

I got one of JLD carbines. If it ever stops raining on the weekends I am going to try to shoot it. To me the fit and finish is superb. The biggest thing is that when other people realize the quality and value of them I image the supply will go down and price will go up. Remember that lecture about supply and demand in econ class??

[Onmilo]

If the serial number on my rifle is any indication of production figures, there are only a couple thousand of these rifles on the market right now,,,,,

[imyerboogeyman]

How much are these going for?

[ShootAndHunt]

I have such a rifle and it is good. The only thing I complain is that I cannot get the rear sight height adjusted. Even in the lowest setting it is still hit about 8 inchs high at 100 yds. I bought a rear sight adjustment tool but it seems not work. This is a little frustrating.

[Feanaro]

Boogey: depends on the model but you can find standard PTRs for around $650-800. $650-700 would be a steal, $800 seems to be more typical.

http://www.jldenter.com/

[Onmilo]

My rifle hits a little less than two inches high at 100 meters, easy enough to correct with 'kentucky windage' but I ordered an adjustment tool anyway.

If you have bottomed the sight out and the gun still shoots 8" high you can,
A. send the gun back and JLD will readjust or replace the rear sight.
B. use a diamond needle file to open the bottom of the 100 meter apeture so that you naturally lower the front sight post in the apeture.
Pass the file through the apeture a couple or three cuts at a time and shoot until the point of impact is correct. HTH

[Tankcommander]

I bought one back in Dec. The standard version is very accurate and I had no problem adjusting the rear sight. I used a pair of fine needle nose plyers.
There are a set of pins that hold the sight if the are compressed at the same time the sight turns about a fifth to a quarter turn to the next detent. Its $21.00 for the tool I already had the plyers. Then follow the directions left or right to raise or lower point of impact.

I love my PTR I'll attach before and after pictures. I replaced the green plastic furniture with Surplus refinished wood.

[cosmonick]

Onmilo,
Congrats on your purchase! I'll be curious to hear what kind of groups you get with match ammo. 3" @ 100 yards is great for surplus ammo, so I'll bet you'll have great results.

Tankcommander,
Your PTR is incredibly sharp! A semi-auto 308 is very high on my list and I really like the HK design. I have read that they really made the PTR a lot easier to disassemble than the original HKs, is this true?

Mo

[MoeMentum]

Those are great rifles. I will be buying one sometime this summer.

[Tankcommander]

Cosmonick, I never had the chance to disassemble a real HK but the PTR is a snap. Pop out the rear pins pull off the stock and guide rod assembly and be careful because the pistol grip will just fall off. A small tug on the charging handle gets the bolt group moving. The only tricky part is puting the bolt back on, it needs to twist on just right. Following the directions in the PTR manual helps. Easier then a Ruger MK 11 or an M2HB 50 cal thats for sure.

TC

[Onmilo]

PTR diassembles exactly the same as an H&K 91.
All parts but the forearm interchange.
The Forearm from an H&K 91/G3 can be used if it is modified by widening the rear flange area, this is because the PTR barrel is thicker and heavier than the standard H&K 91.

Problems in diassembly come with the parts guns made up from surplus mated to reproduction receivers that were poorly formed.
The cast aluminum receiver guns are the worst of the worst.
Don't buy either of these if you want a decent rifle.

[cosmonick]

TC,
Easier than the MKII is good, that little pistol can give me fits :)

Onmilo,
That makes sense about the parts guns. My next rifle is a CMP M1, but shortly after is an SA 308. As far as HK style rifle, I'm really torn between the JLD and Ohio Rapid Fire.

Mo

[Destructo6]

Here's a good page for HK roller gun disassembly/reassembly:

http://www.mg-42.net/G3_diss.htm

[Tankcommander]

Destructo thanks for the link looks like a great site added it to my favorites.

TC

[Gunz]

Cabela's had one for $750. Taxes and fees, it is about $800 out the door. What surprised me is the fact Cabela's had one. I have been looking around a good bit, and some shops do not even order them for me locally.

In any event, I am happy with mine. I almost wasted money on an AR10 or Bushmaster 308. Those things run around $1300-1500. THen I saw one for about 60% of those prices, and I had to buy it.

I am a happy owner of thte JLD stuff. Hell, I may even go buy another one, since they are such solid rifles.

[Father Knows Best]

I bought one about six months ago -- serial number 7xx. It was used but in like-new condition. The original owner said he had only put about 50 rounds through it, and it looks like it. It came with 10 new German 20 round mags, nine of which were still in their original packaging. He also threw in a hard case and 950 rounds of surplus ammo (the balance of the 1,000 he'd bought with it). I paid him $700 for everything.

It's a sweet rifle. I've since added a surplus sling and claw-type scope mount, and an inexpensive 3-9x scope (will upgrade that later as $ permits). The only issue I have with it is the trigger -- it's extremely heavy with a lot of creep. Of course, that's not uncommon for a battle rifle, but I'd still like to get it improved.

Does anyone know of a 'smith who would do a good trigger job on one of these? My local 'smiths won't touch it (they do AR type rifles and hunting guns only).

[Onmilo]

There is a guy here in Illinois from the Decatur-Springfield area, calls himself William's Trigger Specialties.
I have heard numerous and very good things about his ability to clean up Military Triggers.
He stones and rehardens the original parts to an excellent crisp pull weight.

William's Trigger Specialties
111 SE Second Street
Atwood, Illinois 61913

217-578-3026

http://www.williamstriggers.com

[El Tejon]

Had a FAL years ago and sent it to Williams. He does great work. :)

Good to hear these weapons are doing so well. I had reservations, but now I am delighted. The fact that these weapons drive the Lefties nuts is a bonus. :D

[buzz_knox]

I've thought about getting one of these, either the full size or the para model.

[Tankcommander]

Go for it they are great rifles. :)

TC

[lencac]

I also purchased a JLD PTR 91 some time ago, paid $700. They list for about $1300 now I think on JLD's web site. I have shoot several hundred rounds through it and thus far it functions fine. Being as I didn't need to get tendenitis from the 13lb trigger I did send it to Williams Trigger to be reworked. They replaced the curved shoe with a straight one, replaced a worn hammer and reworked to whole thing to a nice crisp 5 lb pull. They do nice work (also had them do my M1 Carbine same very nice result). The whole job cost $140, well worth it. I have shot some handloads from it with the Mil-spec SchuBrichtung claw mount and the 4x Hensoldt/Wetzler optical sight. Am getting 1.5 MOA @ 100 yrds. off the bench using Remington 150 gr. FMJ, Cavim cases, CCI 200 primers and 44 gr. Varget. Also purchased a SchuBrichtung claw mount with all one piece 30 mm rings so as to be able to mount a more capable scope. The problem is the cocking handle will not fully lock open due to it interfering with the front of the scope. I suppose I could get a little shorter scope but I already have this one. Does anyone make a "turned down" cocking handle? Here's a couple of pics.

[MechAg94]

Nice. I recently scoped my PTR and was trying to get a target picture like that. The scope mount chose to start getting loose right in the middle of my 200 yard group. :) Good Shootin'.

[Storm]

The Forearm from an H&K 91/G3 can be used if it is modified by widening the rear flange area, this is because the PTR barrel is thicker and heavier than the standard H&K 91.

I'd also add that if you have a PTR 91KF, as I do, you can use an HK93 wide forearm with the tiniest amount of alteration. The 91 wide forearm is too long. A very small amount of material needs to be ground off the forearm right where it meets with the mag well. A chimp could do it with a Dremel. That said, the metal forearm stock is a real piece of work, almost too nice to use, all set for adding rails if desired.

[lencac]

Thanks Mech. As a note and observation it seemed to me that this firearm actually flys 150 gr. bullets a bit better than the the 168 gr. or 175 gr. I thought this kind of odd. So I contacted JLD about it. The barrels are twisted 1/12 not 1/10 as one might think. The gunsmith at JLD informed me that the firearm was intended to use mil-spec .308/7.62 NATO ammo. Quite possibly the 1/12 twist rate of the barrel does not want to stablize the heavy bullets as well as the 150 gr. FYI.:D

[Storm]

So I contacted JLD about it. The barrels are twisted 1/12 not 1/10 as one might think. The gunsmith at JLD informed me that the firearm was intended to use mil-spec .308/7.62 NATO ammo. Quite possibly the 1/12 twist rate of the barrel does not want to stablize the heavy bullets as well as the 150 gr. FYI.

Thanks for that information. When I contacted PTR back in May and spoke with JD he mentione that both .308Win and .762 NATO were fine to fire from the PTR he didn't mention that preference. Of course, I didn't ask :o

FYI, he did mention that some ammo should be avoided: South African (sealed with tar that gunks up the flutes), Midway 7.56x51 NATO, Austrian, Indian and Cavim. He also said that they were impressed with the Portuguese stuff and that they used American Eagle and Winchester on their test range.

[lencac]

Hi Storm. They did mention to me also about the different ammo. I think that might be a concern if a person would be shooting many, many rds. through it without cleaning. I have shot much South African and other types without a hitch. But having said that I don't think I have ever shot more than about 80 rds. through it at any one time without throughly cleaning it.

[Onmilo]

I still own my rifle.
That 150 grain, 168 grain, 1 in 10 twist verses 1 in 12 twist is pretty much the same as the 1 in 12 verses 1 in 9 verses 1 in 7 twist argument with the 5.56 NATO/.223 rifles.

168 grain bullets wok fine in my rifle, they just won't group to gilt edge accuracy standards that a 1 in 10 twist would offer. Big deal.
I don't consider a standard type G3 rifle as a sniper rifle anymore than I would consider an AKM as a sniper rifle.
If 168 grain bulleted ammunition is all I have on hand I would not hesitate on shooting it but I won't spend the extra money on heavy bullet Match loads for this rifle if I don't have to.

Portugese is great ammo for these rifles but is all but dried up for now.
Right now I shoot mostly Winchester/USA 147 grain NATO ammunition because I lucked into several cases for a very good price.
I have had problems with South African 7.62 NATO failing to function properly.
Chinese steel case 7.62 works quite well in my rifle for the limited amount I shot through it.

[Storm]

Hi Storm. They did mention to me also about the different ammo. I think that might be a concern if a person would be shooting many, many rds. through it without cleaning. I have shot much South African and other types without a hitch. But having said that I don't think I have ever shot more than about 80 rds. through it at any one time without throughly cleaning it.

JD's concern went to overpowered rounds some of which to his knowledge had done some pretty serious damage to other guns that he was aware of.

I stick pretty much to Wolf, S&B, American Eagle and Winchester. I see risking a thousand dollar gun to be a poor risk. Maybe over time it adds up, but so do the odds against you :D

But, what a great rifle!

[Floppy_D]

Hell of a gun, I had a Nikon ProStaff 3x9 on the B-Square mount and a clamp-on bipod.
64481

[lencac]

OK, where does one find a wide forearm for this thing. Interesting Storm, hadn't considered the SA ammo from the overpowering aspect. Good info to keep in mind although moot at this point due to the fact I no longer have any SA ammo nor know where to get any. So I guess I'll keep loading my own mil-spec ammo. It does beat the hell out of the cases though. Any way around that? I've been using the brass from my M1A as a last use from the PTR.

[vanfunk]

The PTR-91 is an excellent rifle. In fact, based on my experience with my DSA FAL and Springfield M1A, it would be my choice of battle rifle if the balloon ever went up. I just plain don't understand the usual complaints about ergonomics (fits me fine) or the awkwardness of the cocking handle and tube, etc. My favorite gripe is that the cocking tube is easily damaged, thus rendering the gun hor's de combat. It would take a SERIOUS fall to damage the cocking tube on a PTR (or HK91); certainly an injury of sufficient force to do that would also damage a FAL's gas tube, or an AK's, etc. The PTR is one rugged piece of gear, plain and simple, with extraordinary accuracy and reliability. As much as my M1A is the sentimental favorite (I really do want to think it's a better battle rifle), I just have to admit to myself (and to you, apparently!) that the PTR is a better battle rifle. There, I said it.:eek:

vanfunk

[vanfunk]

Double tap! Sorry

[lencac]

I guess I just don't understand sometimes. Why would someone spend a $1000 or more and a quality firearm for a "plinker" If I wanted a "plinker" I would spend $250 on a SKS or AK piece of junk and call that good. The name of the game is ACCURACY, without it your just another taliban wannabe. I was at the range Saturday with several National Guardsmen. They had just recently come back from Afganistan. These guys were resighting in their .308 Rem 700"s and what do you think was the nature of their journey to the firingline? ACCURACY! These cats were printing sub-MOA @ 100 yrds. with military ammo! Ringing the gong at 650 yrds! I have had many very nice firearms that dod not shoot to the level I expected. I got rid of them. The name of the game is ACCURACY. That's why when I will post pics of the groups a particular firearm has shot. Besides that's where the fun is at. Working with and finding what a particular firearm is capable of. In all honesty is my PTR as accurate as my NM M1A or my 03s ..... no. To date the best I have got is 1.5 MOA ..... that's not too bad but I know with some time and patience it has 1 MOA groups in it.

[geojap]

lencac, some people just like the rifle for what it is. It is a highly functional/effective rifle. There are many things that make a rifle effective, and accuracy is just one of them. Regardless, 1 to 3 MOA accuracy from a stock battle rifle is very respectable among its peers.

[lencac]

Is not an AK or an SKS "functional and effective"? At a quarter the cost.

[geojap]

Is not an AK or an SKS "functional and effective"? At a quarter the cost.

Yes. But they don't give you 1-3 MOA from a stock rifle either. And I have three AKs (VEPR, Saiga, SLR95), so I'm not a AK-hater or a PTR-phile. Some people just like the HK91/G3/PTR type rifle and want to own one. :)

I'm actually really leaning towards buying a PTR this winter, but the only thing that has me on the fence at the moment is ammo. .308 surplus is rarer than hens teeth at the moment. Compare that to 7.62x39 and .223, which can still be had for 20-25 cents per round. The rifle is expensive, but it will be a darn good shooter and at least mags and parts are cheap.

[lencac]

Geojap let me help you with your dilema. Just send the money to me and I'll put it in a "special PTR Account" .... just for you :D

[Father Knows Best]

Is not an AK or an SKS "functional and effective"? At a quarter the cost.
More like a third the cost, but that's beside the point. The AK and SKS are not battle rifles -- they are semiauto assault rifles. You can't compare them to battle rifles any more than you can compare a Honda Ridgeline (look it up) to a dually Ford or Chevy.

And in any case, the PTR-91 is easily capable of 2 MOA. Mine is, anyway. My Arsenal milled AK (SA M-7S) cost almost as much as my PTR-91, and can't match the PTR in either accuracy or range.

[Onmilo]

Yeah and the Arsenal AK is really the best of the best of everything I have handled so far in AK type rifles.

A good G3 rifle is the AK of full power battle rifles.
The only Com-Bloc weapon that even comes close is the Dragunov, real ones not the Romanian sorta-clone.
Real genuine Dragunovs run $3500.00 and up right now and that way overexceeds the prices of the PTR rifles.

[lencac]

The AK and SKS are not battle rifles -- they are semiauto assault rifles.

Really, WOW, Regular fountain of info.
Everyone wants to mention a bunch of inconsequenctial facts that are already obvious facts. Here's one that no one has mentioned. Recoil. The PTR has an inordinate amount of recoil for the round it shoots. Not even comparable to the M1A. The PTR is heavy too. For that matter in the hands the M1A feels like a fine women. The PTR feels like a sloppy crack addicted whore. The PTR is ok, but its no M1A not to mention a NM M1A. NO comparison, hands down M1A looks better, feels better, shoots better and you can actually reload the brass multiple times after it comes out of an M1A. Anyone who says they think different is just kidding themselves or has never had the opportunity to shoot them both side by side.

[iamkris]

Really, WOW, Regular fountain of info.
Everyone wants to mention a bunch of inconsequenctial facts that are already obvious facts.

You won't make any friends here with an attitude like that.

For that matter in the hands the M1A feels like a fine women. The PTR feels like a sloppy crack addicted whore.

and you won't make friends with Art's Grandmaw with language like that.

[Evil Monkey]

What's up with these G3 clones and CETME's not having the regular magazine catch lever like the AK?

I handled a CETME once and couldn't reach the button with my index finger like an AR15. No CETME or PTR I've seen ever came with the AK style mag catch.

I was think about getting a CETME and turn it into a marksman rifle but this problem turned me away from them. I think I'll get a FAL instead.

[iamkris]

What's up with these G3 clones and CETME's not having the regular magazine catch lever like the AK?


The best solution to the "unreachable magaszine catch" on G3/PTR line is the Tac Latch. Will run you about $50 and 10 minutes of your time to install.

I just put one on my PTR-91 and it makes mag changes much easier.

Now if someone would just come up with a better safety selector that was reachable with normal sized thumbs.

And I agree, the FAL has better ergonomics for my...nearly equal to an AR.

[El Tejon]

iamkris, run on your thumbs more like the rest of us primates.:D

[Feanaro]

What's up with these G3 clones and CETME's not having the regular magazine catch lever like the AK?

The BATFE. The G3 has one, as well as a trigger guard that is pinned in place. But the Almighty Overlords say this makes the rifle easy to convert to full auto, so you have to chop the "rabbit ears" off the trigger group and install a shelf on the receiver to hold the trigger guard and prevent an original from being installed. The shelf goes right where the paddle would be.

You can reinstall one with a little bit of work. Or a lot. Some receivers have a solid metal block where the paddle would go.

[Father Knows Best]

What's up with these G3 clones and CETME's not having the regular magazine catch lever like the AK?
Blame it on BATFE. The G3 has a proper paddle-style mag release, almost identical to the one used on the AK. Unfortunately, the pin that retains the paddle also connects the lower receiver to the upper. It's the lower that holds the FCG, or course, but unlike the AR platform, the upper receiver is the "firearm" under US law.

The result is that at one time you could legally import or buy a semiauto version of the G3, and separately buy a full auto (or select fire) FCG, and the full auto parts would simply drop in. That's not kosher under U.S. law. So the BATFE mandated that any G3 type rifle (at the time, the only one was the H&K model 91) had to have the upper modified in a way that made it impossible to attach a full auto lower. The way H&K accomplished this was to remove the pin that retains the lower and replace it with a ledge. Semiauto lowers now "clip" onto the ledge on semiauto upper, and full auto FCG parts won't fit in a semiauto lower.

A side effect of removing that pin and replacing it with a ledge is that the paddle mag release now had nothing to retain it. H&K took the cheap and easy engineering solution of just substituting a push button. As you've noted, it is an ergonomic nightmare.

You can have a paddle mag release installed on a PTR-91, HK 91 or CETME, but it's expensive. The parts and work, including refinishing, will run $200-300. As iamkris noted, the Tac-Latch is a less expensive drop-in alternative, and I have one on my PTR-91. The last I looked, a Tac-Latch sold for around $40. The paddle on a Tac-Latch moves side-to-side instead of back-to-front, but it does make mag changes a lot quicker and easier than the stock push button, and it's a lot less expensive than a true paddle mag conversion.

[Father Knows Best]

Doh! Feanaro posted while I was typing mine. Ah, well.

[Father Knows Best]

lencac, chill out. You made the comparison of the cost of a PTR-91 to the cost of an AK or SKS. I simply pointed out that it wasn't a reasonable comparison, because they are different classes of rifles, with different purposes and capabilities. I'm not here to debate whether the G3 and clones are superior to the M-14 and clones or any other rifle. I have a PTR-91, and I consider it to be a fine rifle. I also own an M1A, several Garands, and an FAL. All are also fine rifles, with their own strengths and weaknesses. They are also all comparable in price, though in fact my PTR-91 cost me a lot less ($700) than my M1A ($1200) or my FAL ($1400).

[lencac]

I'm sorry ........ I'm chilled out :o The PTR is a fine firearm and the heavy barrel also makes a very nice fireplace poker :neener:

[Onmilo]

I can and do shoot M1A rifles and my PTR-91 side by side all the time.
I solved the recoil issue by adding a slip on limbsaver small recoil pad on my rifle, very comfy to shoot now.

I prefer my M1A BUSH rifle for hunting and I still drag out my NM M1A for Match shooting.

If I had to grab one .308 rifle for SHTF it would be the PTR-91

Like I said, the G3 type rifles are the AKMs of FULL POWER battle rifles and are just as "ergonomic"!:D

[MechAg94]

Regarding the ammo comments on the last page, I still have about 3000 rounds of SA ammo. I don't think I'll stop shooting SA in my PTR any time soon. I'll just have make sure I clean the chamber thoroughly. I have never had ammo troubles with the PTR or the M1A.

:) If I could get someone to pay me $75 per pack for it, I might sell it and buy new, but I doubt it would be worth the trouble.

I have shot my M1A and PTR side by side. The M1A is smoother on recoil and has more precise iron sights, IMO. I am working on shooting the PTR right now though. I got a stock extension my for PTR that has helped me with the recoil. I can keep it firmly on my shoulder and I don't feel like the receiver is right in front of my eye. The original length of pull is a bit short for me with that kind of recoil. The length doesn't bother me for AK's.

[lencac]

Mechag94 brings up a couple of more points about the length and the iron sights. All these things add up to the inescapable fact that the HK/PTR series rifles are not the complete battle rifle that the M1A is. Yes, the M1A is an upgraded M1 Garand, but is that a bad thing? As opposed to the HK/PTR are derrived from the old MP 44 series also of WW II era. Don't get me wrong, I would not stand in front of either and if pitted against some SKS or AK thing at any real distance it is a foregone conclusion. The guy with the commie block firearm will die ....... of course that's if the SHTF ........... I pray it does not but as time goes by ............... Give me good ole' American engineered and built firearms any day.

[MechAg94]

Well, my mentioning the sights is just acknowledging that the M1A has some of the best iron sights you can get. The PTR's iron sights are not necessarily bad at all. They are certainly a big step up from the normal AK sights.

Someone with a smaller/shorter stature might not have an issue with the PTR's length of pull. Even I could shoot it okay with the standard stock, but I was distracted by the closeness of the receiver and tended to lean my head further back. Does anyone know if the retractable stocks extend longer than the standard fixed stock?

[Lanyard]

MechAg94,
The collapsable A3 stock is a little longer than the standard 10" fixed stock. However, you have a few options if you want a longer LOP.
1. There are also 10 3/4" fixed stocks. http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=1046990&chrSuperSKU=&MC=
2. You can add an HK 21 butt pad.
3. The Magpul PRS with the thicker butt pad. http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70_88_115&products_id=252
4. Add an ACE stock, folding or fixed, and get the M4 collapsable look. http://riflestocks.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=69
5. put on an ACE receiver block ( http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=85&products_id=251&osCsid=64284a4c65dd3ee6371de5b9f11f8f6e ) and then add a Magpul CTR stock ( http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70_73_110&products_id=234 )
Hope this helps.
Lanyard

[Father Knows Best]

I've been looking for an HK21 butt pad for almost a year now. If you know where I can get one, please tell me!

[Andrewsky]

Where do you guys buy magazines at?

Does it really ruin the brass?

A picture you will all enjoy. This is Zimbabwe in 1986. As you may know, the country formerly known as Rhodesia was renamed Zimbabwe and communist terrorists confiscated land from rich white farmers. Here are two farmers that armed themselves:(

http://www.hunt101.com/img/407202-big.jpg

[Onmilo]

Oh wow!
An FN-FAL and a G3 living side by side!:D

[Andrewsky]

Yeah! Isn't that an awesome pic?:D

[Onmilo]

Yeah, super photo!.
Magazines are available about everywhere, Millions upon millions were produced for these rifles.
I usually buy mine at CDNN
cdnninvestments.com
They can be bought for as little as $2.00 each for aluminum in quantity.
And yes, G3 type rifles pretty well destroy the cartridge cases.
Doesn't matter much to me because the rifles tend to eject the brass about twenty five feet forward of the firing position and I don't care to go hiking and searching anymore.

[Hauptmann]

I've been thinking about buying a PTR-91 myself. However, I don't have any experience with the G3 and I had a couple of questions.

1) Does the bolt lock back on the last round fired? If so, does it fly shut if you remove the empty magazine, or does it stay locked open until you after you have inserted a loaded magazine and tap the charging handle to shut it.

2) Does PTR chrome line their bores and chambers?

3) Can you easily access the rollers for the delayed roller blow back action to make sure they are clean and lubed?

Thanks.

[iamkris]

An FN-FAL and a G3 living side by side!

They live quite happily together at my house!

http://i16.tinypic.com/6gl6hs7.jpg

[Evil Monkey]

Is it only me or does the G3 always looks so bad ass! I mean I like the FAL's ergonomics alot better than the G3 and would find it more practical but I wouldn't be surprised if I got a G3/CETME first. I like that green one but I'd prefer it all black. :evil:

[stubbicatt]

Hauptman, the nature of the locking system won't accommodate a bolt hold open device.

The rollers are readily accessible by removing the butt assembly, and pulling the bolt/carrier assembly from the rifle.

The bores are not chrome lined.

These are a great rifle for what any of us is likely to do with one, which is target shooting, plinking, or occasional hunting (with 5 round magazines). They are heavy to carry, however.

This is a photo of mine. It is basically a stock PTR91 with some additions and a Bill Springfield trigger job.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/PTR%2091/IMG_0366.jpg

[MechAg94]

My PTR dents the side of the brass. I don't know if there is any way to soften that or not. My brother was going to try to reload some. I am mostly shooting non-reloadable SA .308 anyway.

[lencac]

Stubbi that's a super nice PTR. Wish I knew where to get a wide forearm for mine. Nice butt stock too .... looks expensive. I also have a Stang mount and mil-spec "optical sight" Works rather well. Hey Mech, Mine doesn't dent the brass ..... it demolishes it! Somebody makes a buffer that fits on the thing somehow so it doesn't do that. Looking at the brass after ejection and in light of how far it throws the brass it appears to be a pretty violent ejection process. I'm thinking 2 times tops to use brass from it. The brass supply for me is my M1A brass that has been cycled 6 times from it. Then I give it a final send-off from the PTR .... never to be seen again.
P.S. Stubbi is the wide forearm from a 93?

[Onmilo]

Try here;
http://www.hkspecialist.net
for a G3 wide tropical forearm.
They aren't cheap anymore, fair warning.

[Andrewsky]

If I get a PTR-91, can I shoot super cheap Wolf or Barnaul steel-cased ammo through it?

[vit]

My PTR-91KP is my favorite rifle and it has been since I bought it a couple of years ago. Some folks complain about how difficult the roller rifles are to clean, I shoot mine with SA surplus - no problem.
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8722/img3711nk7.jpg

[Andrewsky]

Can these slam fire?

Are they drop safe?

[Lanyard]

PM sent

[Onmilo]

Any semi auto rifle can slam fire if a cartridge is dropped loose into the chamber and the bolt allowed to slam it down.

Always load cartridges into the chamber from a magazine and this possibility is greatly reduced.

G3 rifles have been tested by dropping loaded versions forty feet onto concrete pads without inducing an accidental bang.,

[flashman70]

Here's mine. I really enjoy shooting it.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/flashman70/IMG_15432.jpg

[Feanaro]

Hauptman, the nature of the locking system won't accommodate a bolt hold open device.

HK managed it on the MP5/10. There's no reason why they couldn't have incorporated one in the design, they simply didn't.

[Onmilo]

Kalashnikov could have incorporated a bolt hold open device on the AK series rifles too and didn't.
I guess Germans and Russians aren't so dumb that they need a bolt hold open device to let them know the weapon is out of bullets.

[ndolson]

The AK and SKS are not battle rifles -- they are semiauto assault rifles.

Seriously???

An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and battle rifle ammunition. ... (meaning it's capable of fully automatic fire)

I think it's safe to say there are very few if any owners of an assault rifle on this board. Let's not make the same mistake the media does, it's for our own good.

[buzz_knox]

I think it's safe to say there are very few if any owners of an assault rifle on this board.

You'd probably be shocked by how many people on this board own true assault rifles and other NFA items.