[wallysparx]

hello all,

long time lurker, first time poster. ran into this little display and was wondering what some of these guns are.

http://c.myspace.com/00067/66/91/67631966_l.jpg

i was particularly wondering about the one in roughly the center, that has the tube mag and is pointed up. also wondering about the one in the top right hand corner, with the box mag and pointed down. thanks.

[dfariswheel]

Both rifles are Winchester Model 1905-1907 semi-auto's.

These rifles were Winchester's early semi-auto center fire rifles, and were chambered in .32WSL, .35WSL, and 301WSL, Winchester Self-Loading cartridges.

These were Winchester specfic cartridges.

The rifle with the longer magazine is susposedly a Baby Face Nelson-modified rifle, made for John Dillinger.

Nelson also built the 1911 pistol with the extended magazine and the front grip from a Thompson SMG.
The gun was converted to full-auto and reportedly fired in uncontrollable bursts.
The fact that innocent bystanders would be killed by the uncontrollable weapon didn't faze the homicidal Nelson even a little.

When Texas Ranger Frank Hamer was assigned to get Bonnie and Clyde, he bought a Winchester Model 1907 in 301WSL and sent it to a custom gunsmithing company in Joplin Missouri to have an extended magazine added.

[jefnvk]

The cutoff shotgun at the bottom and the one that is pointing down in the middle appear to be Browning A5's.

[Bear Gulch]

Anybody who'd do that to an A-5 would have to be a criminal.

Several of Hamer crew are packing BARs in the recreation film that was taken a couple hours after the shoot. I remember reading as a boy that Hamer had a Remington auto in .35. Cars in those days were sufficiently dense that you wanted serious firepower.

[mbs357]

Is that a select fire 1911???
(Has a Thompson for-grip)

[Bear Gulch]

BTW is that a death mask of Dillinger?

[wallysparx]

thanks.

i'd imagine "uncontrollable" would be quite the understatement for a 1911 in full auto.

[Onmilo]

If it makes anybody feel better, the shotguns are Reminton Model 11s.
The top revolvers are Colt Police Positives.

There is a Colt 1903 .32 acp auto on the left along with an Ortgies .25 or .32 acp. another 1903 or 1908 is second down from the top.
Below the 1903 Colt is an early Colt Woodsman .22 auto.

The double barrel is an Ithaca Auto Burglar 20 guage.

The single barrel shotgun appears to be an Iver Johnson White Powder Wonder 12 guage.

Lots of 1911 .45s.

[Malamute]

The "tube mag" on the Winchester auto rifle is the cocking handle. It is pushed (or pulled depending on how you are oriented to the gun) to the rear to operate the bolt.

The Winchester auto rifles could be had with either 5 or 10 round mags from the factory. The gun on the left in the picture has no magazine in it. The 5 rounders are about even with the trigger guard when in the gun.

[Rupestris]

Anybody who'd do that to an A-5 would have to be a criminal.

I don't know what worse. Chopping up that A5, or the fact that they drilled holes in just about everything in order 'em mount it on that display. :banghead:

[Malamute]

The "A5's" may be Remington model 11's. Remington made them for years early in the century. They can be had for pretty reasonable, I've seen them in the $200 range,

Bonnie Parker (Bonnie and Clyde fame) had a Model 11 Remington 20 guage cut down like the one in the picture as a car gun.

Oops, just reread the other posts and realized I missed where someone mentoined the Remingtons.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

He didn't use a BAR? I'm a little disappointed in him.

This gives me further incentive to go back in time to be the man who shoots the BAR in Dillinger's gang.

[redneck2]

Yeah, but he was smart enough to use 1911's instead of Glocks

and a real gun like a .45 instead of a weenie 9mm



:neener:

[El Tejon]

red, that because he was a honest-to-God man not some mumbling, sideways-gun-shooting, slouched piece of work with a mashed down hat and low slung pants that you cannot run in!

TGI, yes, he did, not a preferred weapon. He got one from the Warsaw, Indiana Police Department after he threw the Police Chief down the stairs. IIRC it was on loan from the Indiana National Guard.

wally, you posting from Nashville, Indiana (where the Dillinger museum was)? :D

The Winchester rifles were favored "company guns" used by banks, couriers, warehouses and coal companies in Indiana during the time. My grandmother told me she remembered men with rifles in banks in downtown Indianapolis during the '30s. My grandfather carried a Winchester in .401 when he worked in Terre Haute before WWII.

[boofus]

Wonder if the A-5 was full-auto too. There is a registered A-5 receiver for sale on GunsAmerica. :evil:

I'd imagine it would be even more uncontrollable than the 1911.

[JohnKSa]

he was smart enough to use 1911's instead of Glocks
You realize
of course that Glocks would remain
uninvented for around

another 60 years. I think it's
really kind of sad when
even a thread about

antique guns carried by Dillinger and
Nelson is used by a person

in order to disparage a firearm they
don't like.
I find it difficult to understand how
one can hold something like the dislike of a firearm constantly in
the forefront of their mind so that it's always ready to spill out.

[El Tejon]

I think red was just funning. :D

boofus, full auto shotguns were around. However, if you remember reading Elmer Keith's autobiography, they were hard to shoot. :D (Unlce Elmer writes that as long as someone got up in a truck and put their feet on his shoulders, Elmer could hold the weapon on target).

[Bear Gulch]

While Bonnie had a model 11. Clyde was reportedly a fan of the A5. He was also a sawed off little runt and cut it down to hide under a coat.

[jefnvk]

Aren't the Model 11 and the A5 the same?

i'd imagine "uncontrollable" would be quite the understatement for a 1911 in full auto.

Not really, I shot a MAC10 in .45, it wasn't too much bigger than a 1911, and it wasn't too bad, especially with the front grip.

[Jim K]

IIRC, the (Non) History Channel did a show on Bonnie and Clyde and used as a lead-in pictures of an AK47 and an SKS! Don't you just love good research?

One interesting note. If you go into a bank that was built in the 1920's or 1930's, you may see a railed balcony across the rear and some plaques or decorative panels on the wall behind it. The odds are that those decorations conceal machinegun ports, behind which are rooms where bank guards or police could stand to fire down at bandits.

Jim