In what states is caching illegal?


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DontBurnMyFlag
April 7, 2005, 10:01 PM
Does anyone know where it is illegal to stockpile weapons and ammo? Ive heard that there is a limit to how much ammo you can have in your house at one time. I dont know what state this affects though. Im from NJ and I figure since everything else is illegal here, caching must be. So if anyone can help. Thanks.

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Rabid Rabbit
April 7, 2005, 10:31 PM
Never heard of a limit of ammo, but there are limits on loose primers and amount of powder, I guess a complete cartridge is safer than components. Check any powder mfg. catalog for the limits.

Daemon688
April 7, 2005, 11:08 PM
Why would the gov limit the number of firearms one could own?

zahc
April 8, 2005, 12:13 AM
umm...

same reason gun control exists?

In short, power?

No_Brakes23
April 8, 2005, 05:04 AM
I bet that was sarcasm...

jamz
April 8, 2005, 09:22 AM
MA doesn't have a firearms limit that I know of, but it does have limits on ammo: IIRC, something like 5k rounds of rimfire and 10k rounds of centerfire are the limit... Ill have to see if I can reference that.

-James

pharmer
April 8, 2005, 10:40 AM
I used to live in New Jersey and I believe there is a maximun number of handguns you can own if not an FFL. Also civilians can posess but not use hollowpoints, not sure about that. Glad I moved to the US in 1980. Joe

geekWithA.45
April 8, 2005, 10:47 AM
AFAIK, NJ doesn't have a limit on # of guns or rounds.

As for "caching", there's the issue of whose property it's on. If you "cache" on property not your own, it might be viewed as a "transfer", which would be unlawful.

There have been cases where vast amounts of ammo have been confiscated as a "fire hazard", and vast amounts of guns taken under various other pretexts.

I guess the complications also partly depend on the goal and method of caching: Sealing up an SKS or two and a crate of ammo is less problematic than stashing a neighborhood magnitude armory.

As for "normal" looking stockpiles for "personal" use, no biggie.

When I lived in Jersey, I'd typically have 2 crates of every caliber stacked in the garage.

dolanp
April 8, 2005, 10:48 AM
Some states will allow regulation of a certain quantity of black powder for fire codes and such. I know Texas allows them to regulate stuff over 25lbs if it's for fire code compliance and stuff like that (50lb for dealers).

As for New Jersey, well you could probably look up the statutes as easily as I could and I'm too lazy to do that. :p

Bear Gulch
April 8, 2005, 11:13 AM
More pwder than that can generally be covered with an ATF permit and a proper storage magazine.

Silly question. If one can buy ammo without having to sign a registry, who's gonna know? Secondly to be a cache, must it all be in one place? If so why not rent a few storage places or arrange to leave some with a buddy?

secamp32
April 8, 2005, 01:46 PM
more than 10 rounds isn't illegal but it will be played up in the media as an "Arsenal" :cuss: :banghead:

Owen
April 8, 2005, 02:34 PM
Most of the ammo volume restrictions are the fire code, not the criminal code.

To find out what the limit is, call your local fire department.

whm1974
April 8, 2005, 03:43 PM
At work last night I had two people tell me that there is a Federal law resricting how much ammo you can have and it's illegal to "stockpile".

I was going to make a thread asking you guys but don''tburn myflag beat me to it.

If there is law I can't see how it can be enforced.

-Bill

SpaceCowboy
April 8, 2005, 04:19 PM
According to our fellow gunlovers at the ATF, two or more guns is a "stockpile". Kinda dumb ain't it? That means everyone here has a stockpile.

Cortland
April 8, 2005, 04:25 PM
two or more guns is a "stockpile".
No, no, no! The plural of gun is "arsenal" not stockpile. Get it straight!

whm1974
April 8, 2005, 05:31 PM
According to our fellow gunlovers at the ATF, two or more guns is a "stockpile". Kinda dumb ain't it? That means everyone here has a stockpile.

Can you show a link where the ATF defines two or guns to be a stockpile? Most gunowners I know have WAY more then this.

-Bill

Jayman
April 8, 2005, 05:54 PM
I have looked, and to date have found no laws regarding the quantity of ammo and/or guns you may have on premesis. As others mention, there are fire codes that deal with the quantity of loose powder (and in some cases primers) that you can have on hand. If there are any, I don't believe them to be on the federal level, likewise none in the state of VA, anyway. Where you live may be a different story altogether.

Chipperman
April 8, 2005, 07:00 PM
"MA doesn't have a firearms limit that I know of, but it does have limits on ammo"

I do not think that is correct. If you can find a reference, I would appreciate it.

Standing Wolf
April 8, 2005, 07:01 PM
At work last night I had two people tell me that there is a Federal law resricting how much ammo you can have and it's illegal to "stockpile".

Working with the uninformed isn't always the most fun.

rock jock
April 8, 2005, 07:12 PM
Texas requires a minimum number of guns.

whm1974
April 8, 2005, 07:21 PM
Working with the uninformed isn't always the most fun.

The first person who told me this has a "preban" foldering stock AK. Told me it's worth $700. He was suprise when I told him I can get an AK for $300 to $400.

He didn't even know that the AWB expired last year.

-Bill

Owen
April 8, 2005, 07:24 PM
Mass definately has a limit.

IIRC it's Primers+rimfire+centerfire <= 10k

But it's part of the fire code.

You can have more, but need a special ammunition bunker

Bear Gulch
April 8, 2005, 08:23 PM
So it is a rule for one Place? or per person?

Owen
April 8, 2005, 08:52 PM
per place

Chipperman
April 8, 2005, 10:38 PM
OK here's the scoop on MA:

http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/powder.html

(1)?? Exemption: License, Registration, or Permit:? In accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 148 § 13, the Board hereby prescribes the following quantities of explosive materials that shall be exempt from License, Registration, and Permit and may be kept, or stored in a building or other structure:


(a)?? Small Arms Ammunition


1.?? Not more than 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.


2.?? Not more than 10,000 rounds of center fire ammunition.


3.?? Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.


(b)?? Small Arms Ammunition Primers


1.?? Not more than 1,000 caps or other small arms primers.


(c)?? Smokeless Propellants


1.?? Not more than 16 pounds.


2.?? Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store Smokeless Propellants.


3.?? Not more than two pounds of such propellant shall be stored in a multiple family dwelling or a building of public access.


(d)?? Black Powder


1.?? Not more than two pounds.


2.?? Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store black powder.


(e)?? Exempt quantities of small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use.


(f)?? Special industrial explosive devices when in? quantities of less than 50 pounds net weight of explosives.



(2)?? Storage By Permit:? In accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 148 § 13, the Board hereby prescribes the following quantities of explosive materials that shall be exempt from License, and Registration,? and may be kept, or stored in a building or other structure provided a permit has been obtained from the head of the local fire department;


(a)?? Small Arms Ammunition:? Private Use.? Small arms ammunition in amounts over that specified in 527 CMR 13.04(1), that do not exceed 100,000 total rounds at any one time, may be kept for private use provided none of the individual limitations listed below are exceeded.


1.?? 10,001 to 30,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.


2.?? 10,001 to 50,000 rounds of center fire ammunition not to include shotgun ammunition.


3.?? 10,001 to 50,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition not to include center fire ammunition.


(b)?? Small Arms Ammunition:? Commercial Use.? Not to exceed 200,000 rounds in any combination.


(c)?? Small Arms Ammunition Primers: Private Use


Not to exceed 10,000? Small Arms Ammunition Primers.


(d)?? Small Arms Ammunition Primers: Commercial Use


Not to exceed 100,000? Small Arms Ammunition Primers.


(e)?? Smokeless Propellants: Private Use


1.?? Not to exceed 48? pounds Smokeless Propellants.


2.?? Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store Smokeless Propellants.


3.?? The head of the local fire department may limit the quantity of smokeless propellants stored by permit to as low as two pounds if such propellant shall be stored in a multiple family dwelling or a building of public access.


(f)?? Smokeless Propellants: Commercial Use


Not to exceed 100? pounds smokeless propellant.


(g)?? Black Powder: Private Use


1.?? Not to exceed five pounds of black powder.


2.?? Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store black powder.


3.?? The head of the local fire department may limit the quantity of black powder stored by permit to as low as two pounds if such black powder shall be stored in a multiple family dwelling or a building of public access.

Third_Rail
April 8, 2005, 11:12 PM
So I might be breaking more than one law, possibly. Oh well.....

MoeMentum
April 8, 2005, 11:34 PM
No limits in New Jersey, but, don't give them any ideas .....

whm1974
April 9, 2005, 12:44 AM
To late.

-Bill

thorn726
April 9, 2005, 02:18 AM
a couple things to think of=
powder- pretty obvious- over a certain amount, you got 2 problems=
accidentally your house is a time bomb,
or
on purpose you could make too big a bomb very fast.
i have to imagine thats the logic aside from the fire stuff.

half of these laws are probably the result of some insurance company having t oshell out $$$ and they wanted a loophole

whm1974
April 9, 2005, 08:26 AM
half of these laws are probably the result of some insurance company having t oshell out $$$ and they wanted a loophole

I heard State Farm is real bad about guns in general.

-Bill

runswithscissors
April 10, 2005, 02:33 AM
Not sure if VA has a law on max guns and ammo. I don't think I'm breaking the gun limit, but the ammo :rolleyes: yea, I'm probably a little( ;) ) over if there is one. Technically, according to the Army, I have enough to equip a small army. An army of one... :neener:

lwsimon
April 10, 2005, 10:44 AM
A guy I knew where I went to high school got charged with "intent to manufacture a pipe bomb" or some such garbage. Essentially he had a bunch of Pyrodex, lots of PVC and some cannon fuse. The fact that he was a plumber, and was also a BP hunter didn't occur to them I guess.

whm1974
April 10, 2005, 12:59 PM
I doupt that PVC would make a very good pipe bomb. The thing is however if the GOenment wants to get you they can charge you with anything.

-Bill

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