I Dare Anyone


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sonny
December 31, 2002, 01:26 PM
I dare anyone to rank "common" handgun cartriges in the order that they would least like to be "shot" with.
Yea,....I know nobody wants to get shot but the purpose of this exersise is to make people commit to their "stopping power " beliefs in a open forum.
For the sake of the exersise let's not make shot placement an issue......or for that matter please don't include "super bullets" or anything that would tip the scales in an unfair way.In other words please "generalize"

#1 .50
#2 .38
#3 .22

Get it?.....I look foward to some of the debates on members choices......The longer the list the better .....Feel free to make comments or notes when your list is done......If this goes over well maybe I'll try it in the rifle forum.

Well.....Rank-em! :ar15:

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Wil Terry
December 31, 2002, 01:38 PM
shotgun, and a 45 automatic, and I'm still here ugly and sweet as ever.
None of it was any fun at all and all hurt equally.
Lists such as you solicit are a waste of time and space on a website.

91101
December 31, 2002, 01:43 PM
OK I'll play :D

1. .454 Casull
2. .50 AE
3. .45 ACP
4. .44 Mag
5. 10mm
6. .357 Mag
7. .40 S&W
8. .38 spc
9. 9mm
10. .380
11. .22 lr
12. .25 ACP

I know there are others that fit in the middle of that list (like the .41 mag) but ya just don't see alot of them out there.

Save for a few exceptions I follow the "bigger hole" theory...

sonny
December 31, 2002, 01:47 PM
Will Terry.........I said,

Yea,....I know nobody wants to get shot but the purpose of this exersise is to make people commit to their "stopping power " beliefs in a open forum.

Everyone's got an opinion,You have made your's clear,If you don't want to contribute .... you don't have to...But I wonder ...do you think I am suggesting in some sort of way that getting shot is "fun"?....Do you think the way I posed the question in not in good taste?.....I think you may be taking it a little to seriously...Sorry if you got offended.

krept
December 31, 2002, 01:48 PM
I know nobody wants to get shot but the purpose of this exersise is to make people commit to their "stopping power " beliefs in a open forum.

I hereby swear that I wouldn't want to be shot with a .22 LR, but I won't choose carry one for defense and I don't think it's a great stopper.

In other words please "generalize"
I would rather be shot by the smaller, slower bullet than the heavier, faster ones.

Mike Irwin
December 31, 2002, 01:50 PM
.357 Mag.
.44 Mag.
.45 Colt/.45 ACP
all others...

91101
December 31, 2002, 01:51 PM
Wil, I totally disagree with this statement:

"Lists such as you solicit are a waste of time and space on a website."

Sonny said:

"the purpose of this exersise is to make people commit to their "stopping power " beliefs in a open forum."

What's a waste of time about that?

Michael

tlhelmer
December 31, 2002, 01:51 PM
All of them!:rolleyes:

sonny
December 31, 2002, 01:57 PM
I wonder why firearm owners feel that is almost "TABOO" to rank stopping power....sure alot of it is debatable...but so what.
It is pretty much understood that there is no one right answer but I often learn something new in stopping power debates ....maybe not something that would make a big difference in real life ...but some of these debates take on lives of there own which I sometimes enjoy.

Shaughn Leayme
December 31, 2002, 02:00 PM
Any of them is my opinion.

A 45 hurts just as much as a 38 which equally hurts just as much as a 22 and any and all can kill you dead and there isn't no degree of dead ....just dead.

Rating them as far as effectiveness/usefulness that is different all together and would give one a more realistic view than that you would get by asking which you do not want to get shot with.

No flame or attack intended, just the way I see it.

sonny
December 31, 2002, 02:16 PM
O.K ......Let me pick apart my own post so I can prove my wisdom.

#1,,,It is not polite to dare people...you are new on this forum and you will not make any friends here by"daring people"

#2...Nobody WANTS to get shot ...It is in bad taste to even say that.

#3...asking people to state their beliefs is a very personal subject it is borderlile offensive.

#4...Shot placement IS an issue how could you ask us to not consider it.

#5...Why can't we include "super bullets"? if they are availlable they should be cosidered as well.

#6...Generalizing is dangerous it could make the difference in a life or death situation.

#7...You are wasting space on this board....we need more room for .....mall ninja ...posts...and whatnot.

Did I miss anything?

priv8ter
December 31, 2002, 02:18 PM
In the interest of fun, I guess I'll play along:

.44 Mag
10mm
.45 ACP
.41 Mag
.357 Mag
.40 S&W
.357 SIG
9X19
9X18
.38 Special
.32 H&R Mag
9X17
.32 NAA
.32 ACP
.22 Mag
.22 LR
.25 ACP

As far as this thread being a waste, if you look back on TFL, about 90% of what we did was repeated on a cyclic basis...most of our threads were rehashes of the same old arguments. That's what makes it fun, is seeing everyone's opinion.

Hope everyone has a great New Years.

Correia
December 31, 2002, 02:30 PM
Nobody is a waste of space on THR. Yet. :)

I'll rank them:

1. Anything held by Rob Leatham or other master class shooter.
2. Anything held by a dedicated handgunner who practices a lot.
3. Anything held by somebody competant.
4. Anything held by the incompetant but lucky.
5. Anything held by the incompetant and clumsy.
6. A pointy stick.
7. A sharp rock.
8. A Lorcin.

91101
December 31, 2002, 02:31 PM
Sonny,
Don't be so hard on yourself.... If you would have titled the thread "Make a list of your favorite calibers in order" it would have gotten under SOMEONE's skin...:banghead:

sonny
December 31, 2002, 03:18 PM
Correia,
You're #4 choice is sad but true....It seems that it is probably the most dangerous threat of all in reality.

91101,
I am starting to get the picture,and you have my word that in the future you will not find me being critical and looking to find cracks in a well intentioned Highroaders armour so I can come off as some sort of seasoned expert.
UNLESS :evil: ......I find myself in a good debate!:)

10-Ring
December 31, 2002, 04:12 PM
Bad enough getting hit by flying HOT brass at the range. I DON'T WANNA be shot with any caliber! :ar15: :neener:

Diesle
December 31, 2002, 04:20 PM
Im not offended. If you ask a question that is too 'personal' for me to feel comfertable to respond to, I likely wont respond.

I will not attempt to socialize you by suggesting what is and is not 'appropriate material for this site. Ill leave that sort of Godliness to our good moderators. ;)

That said,

Hot .454 seems like the last thing i would like to feel inside me.

But really, I dont even want a pellet breaking layer 1 of my skin...

Diesle

seeker_two
December 31, 2002, 06:06 PM
1. all firearm ammunition
2. all bow/crossbow ammunition
3. all pellet gun ammunition
4. all BB gun ammunition
5. all rubber band gun ammunition

honorable mention goes to shrapnel & thrown blades (somewhere b/t # 1 & #3)

Pendragon
December 31, 2002, 06:41 PM
Funny, stopping power is not somthing I ever think about.

I own a .45 and a couple of .38s

I consider the .45 to be more powerful than the .38s, but only because I can hit better with it.

That said, I keep the .45 locked up and the .38s available because they are easier for my wife to use.

I would not own anything less than a .38 spcl for social purposes and I believe that caliber is up to the job if I do my part.

While I understand the intent behind the thread, I personally do not believe in the notion of "stopping power".

Power is the ability to do work and in order for power to be compared, it must be measured and quantified.

Stopping Power is a myth because the thing you are trying to stop is not a constant. People vary, their mental state, their chemical state, how much armor (clothing) they wear - it all varies.

Additionally, almost all "stopping power" equations only deal with the elusive "one shot stop"

I suppose a .454 Casull would be one of the best stoppers if you only get one shot. But what if you miss? (assuming the flash did not set the guy on fire). What if you have to engage multiple targets? I can probably deliver follow up shots much quicker with my semi-custom 1911 compared to most guns, but the above mentioned factors mean I will probably not bring it into play.

I think if we are going to try and quantify such things, we need to take into account all the factors - such as:

1. Effective rate of fire
2. Effective accuracy (not the weapons inherent accuracy)
3. Capacity
4. Penetration
5. Expansion
6. Flash effects
7. Flinch factor

You could probably add a few more on there. I think we need to look at the whole picture. A woman who is uncomfortable with loud guns will probably have more "fight factor" with a Ruger .22 auto pistol than she would with a .40 or .45 pistol or especially a big bore revolver.

Anyway, not trying to mess up your thread. I agree with Correia and his ranking system for the record.

clown714
January 1, 2003, 09:40 AM
:rolleyes: i was shot with a BBgun:rolleyes:

took out my front tooth:(

anything bigger,or uses powder is too big for me:(

clown

Tamara
January 1, 2003, 11:24 AM
I submit that if anyone here thinks they could tell the difference between getting shot with a .38 and a .45 with their eyes closed, much less the type/weight/brand of bullet, then they've been reading too many Mack Bolan novels.

Kevinch
January 1, 2003, 11:34 AM
Sorry - but I see this as being "list in order how pregnant you want to be".

I don't want shot with anything, & I'll carry the biggest bullet in the most powerful load in the lightest weapon I can control.

Rival
January 1, 2003, 12:24 PM
Let me see... If you get shot in a vital area it does not really matter as long as the round can actually penetrate deep enough to hit such an area. In vital area case speed and penetration are of utmost importance (and very not desirable by YOU).

HOWEVER if don't get hit in a vital place, speed and penetration is what you actually desire in order to stay alive. Just let that bullet leave it's hole and leave your buddy the hell alone.

That is a contrudiction, so I can not possibly make such a list.

stellarpod
January 1, 2003, 12:44 PM
Any caliber in the hands of my wife, who shoots circles around me everytime we go to the range.

:D

stellarpod

KMKeller
January 1, 2003, 01:08 PM
The way I look at it, any and all will induce severe pain, something I have an extreme allergic reaction to....:impaled:

Harold Mayo
January 1, 2003, 01:18 PM
Wil Terry...tough talk from a 99 year old man...


:rolleyes:

Blackhawk
January 1, 2003, 01:34 PM
I'd play if the question were flipped around to:

"What caliber would you be most confident in using for SD presuming you must shoot to preserve your life and your speed and accuracy were equal with all of them?"

Since I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't want to get shot with anything again, not even a BB, I just can't get my mind into the game otherwise.

Sean Smith
January 1, 2003, 01:40 PM
Is it really necessary for people to be this sanctimonious and holier-than-thou over a (sure, kinda silly) question? :rolleyes:

Shaughn Leayme
January 1, 2003, 04:20 PM
Off the topic....

Does anyone believe that "WE" are the only ones who cruise this board? or others like it? The anti's can and will use these "(sure, kinda silly)" types of questions to present us in a very bad light.

I go to thier sites and read what they write about us and use it in discussions to defeat the arguements presented by others of such leanings and since we all know that "logical" dispassionate discussions are all but ignored by these individuals, I for one am extremely careful about how and what I will post on line. They generate enough material with out me providing more.

Can this caution be construed as sanctomonius and holier-than-thou? Perhaps, but I look at it the same way I look at walking down a street at night or the carrying of a ccw, my actions can have far reaching effects on both myself and others and those actions can potentially be used against me.

No flame or attack intended on anyone, but let's look at both sides of the question and what potential it has to be used or misused.

91101
January 1, 2003, 05:05 PM
"but let's look at both sides of the question and what potential it has to be used or misused"


Shaughn,
Are you saying that we should not talk about things that interest us because of what people who already hate us may think about it? :banghead:

No flame intended to you, but SCREW 'EM... I don't care what they think or say... :cuss:

Michael

Shaughn Leayme
January 1, 2003, 05:45 PM
91101,

Actually not, but I do say that maybe we need to think about the wording a little?

We can discuss any thing that comes to mind and be quite explicit about it, but present it in a manner that they can't use very well against us.

What gets the attention of the Media and the average non gun owner?

An emotionally disturbed person today used a rifle to injure/kill several people......

A sniper, gunned down several people.......

OR

What round is suitable for self defense and how would you rank them.

What round will kill or maim the (insert choice) punk the quickest and do the most damage.

Perception and presentation are keys.

If we come off as being some kind of backwoods hillbilly, militia or gun nut (no insult intended) then that is how we will be treated and stereotyped and it will be percieved that maybe we are a threat and should be disarmed.

Many people today, know nothing (or next to) about hunting shooting, collecting or competition etc. They only know what the news media, movies, politicians and special interest groups are telling them and some of it is so badly skewed it is down right lying.

We can tell them to go take a flying leap ...whatever.... but it will not address the problems that they can cause us.

We are all quite happy to discuss our newest acquisition, reloading, last years hunt or our ranking at the latest IDPA shoot etc. We don't really care about what the Anti's think of us, we mind our own business and enjoy our pursuits.

They are using this very thing against us and unless we start to do something about it, and this may mean thinking about what we write or how we write it, where all the world can see it, then maybe we should start.

We MUST study our opposition and understand them, then we can set about to obliterate thier emotional arguements and show them for the falsehoods that they are.

All the different factions that make up gun ownership have to work together, because if we don't, then all of us will go down one group at a time.

91101
January 1, 2003, 06:26 PM
Shaughn,

All of the points you make are valid. But I think that you know as well as I do that the media and the "anti's" already think of any gun owner as “back woods hillbillies" and "gun nuts" weather we act that way or not.

In their eyes we are a threat because we do own guns even if we just use them punch holes in paper.

Go read Sarah Brady's group's web site and count the bald face lies they tell to get their point across...

I just find it distasteful that I should have to watch the way I say something for fear that someone who is not above lying or twisting my words may use it.

I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh in my last post but this subject is one that makes my blood boil...

Michael

Shaughn Leayme
January 1, 2003, 08:14 PM
91101,

This particular subject ties me in knots as well.

I figure the less we look like or talk like the picture they are trying to present the harder it is for them.....and personally anything that makes it harder for them to advance thier agenda is good news to me.

As far as being harsh, I didn't take it as such.

cratz2
January 1, 2003, 09:09 PM
Just to be clear, I ain't volunteerin'...:what:

I guess any the high veolcity/quick expanding rounds would be the last I'd want to get hit with... they just seem like they'd be pretty gosh darn uncomfortable. I guess Glazers and MagTechs being the worst, then the Gold Dots and Rangers. After than , pretty much any defensive ammo from the standard calibers. Then lead or FMJ stuff.

Would rather take my chances with a 25 ACP and maybe even a 32 ACP over a 22LR or 22 WMR.

I really don't think the 454s and 500 Linebaughs would be the worst for a person. Just a quick in and out. If it hits something bad, it'll be bad but there's a lot of not so bad stuff in a person too.

But I guess to the original question:

#1 12 Gauge loaded with anything
#2 45 ACP
#3 40 S&W
#4 357 SIG/357 Magnum
#5 9mm
#6 whatever is in hand

sonny
January 1, 2003, 09:15 PM
91101,

Please explain you choice......

3. .45 ACP
4. .44 Mag

Marshall
January 1, 2003, 10:34 PM
OK I'll play, what the heck?

.475 Linebaugh
.480 Ruger
.454 Casull
.44 Mag
.45 ACP/Colt
.41 Mag
10 MM
.44 Special
.357 Mag
.40 S&W
.38 Special
9 MM
.380 ACP

I'll stop there. I promise this will not be something that I lay awake tonight thinking of!:rolleyes:

Like Richard Prior said on stage one time, Practice RUNNING and teach your old lady to run so you don't have to go back and get her! :neener:

Marshall :)

91101
January 2, 2003, 01:03 AM
"91101,

Please explain you choice......

3. .45 ACP
4. .44 Mag"

Sonny,
I guess I put them in that order because of the bigger hole theory.... and I would think that a .44 mag is more likely to pass through without expanding. I could be wrong and I don't wanna find out. :)

Michael

sonny
January 2, 2003, 01:17 AM
ME EITHER!

Onslaught
January 3, 2003, 11:33 AM
Lists such as you solicit are a waste of time and space on a website. And since negative comments are neither solicited or appreciated, yet also take up bandwidth, what does that make them??? http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/18_crazy.gif

maybe we need to think about the wording a little? What's wrong with "which ones would YOU least like to BE SHOT with"? I submit that the alternative suggestion, "What round is suitable for self defense and how would you rank them." is #1 worse, although more professional and proper, because it discusses shooting others, rather than being shot, and #2 has been done to death, and therefore quite http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/sleeping.gif, while this one has at least a bit of an entertaining http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/drunk.gif...

As for my list...

1. Centerfire
2. Rimfire
3. airgun
4. spitball

http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/wave2.gif

okeydoke
January 3, 2003, 11:42 AM
more upon the load used in a caliber, than it does between different calibers. That being said, killing ability and stopping abilty are only very vaguely related. I can kill you with a thrust from an ice pick, but it might well take you an hour or more to bleed out. I can stop you cold with a ball bat across your gut, and you will probably be ok in a day or so. Just because you dont want to be shot with a given load, does not mean that you favor a load for use as a stopper. For instance, I would really hate to be shot with a homemade Glaser, with cyanide mixed in with the birdshot pellets, but I wouldn't count on such a shallowly penetrating load to stop anyone instantly.

okeydoke
January 3, 2003, 11:46 AM
are all going to just MEEKLY surrender our right to defense and to be free, just because some punks manage to get some laws passed? I think NOT, and let ANYONE read this, and figure out just exactly WHAT I mean by saying that! It won''t take many at all to scorch the earth so badly that they will be heartily sorry that they ever dared to so presume to attack our rights.

Orion
January 3, 2003, 12:25 PM
Sonny which would you rather have dropped on your toe?

An Anvil a La Bugs Bunny?

A baby Grand Piano?

The Queen Mary?

I don't really think size matters in this case. I don't want anything dropped on my toe and I don't want shot with anything bigger than a squirt gun(rubber bands can leave a nasty welt)!

sonny
January 3, 2003, 01:45 PM
After much thought I have decided on..........................

THE QUEEN MARY:what:

New_comer
January 3, 2003, 09:34 PM
Would the rankings change if the dare were to include committing to be hit somewhere specific, like a shoulder, leg, arm? All the calibers mentioned are equally deadly when placed properly in the torso, but majority are marginally effective at the extremities.

Let's say the leg. How would the order be then?

King
January 3, 2003, 10:02 PM
for handguns only......

. 44 mag
. 45 ACP (I shoot)
. 357 mag (I shoot)
. 40
. 38 (I shoot)
. 22 mag (I shoot)
9mm (I shoot)
.380
.32
.25
.22 lr or short (I shoot)

prefer not to experience any of them of course.

okeydoke
January 3, 2003, 10:11 PM
done while fast drawing. The 2 .45 hittees were fine in a couple of weeks, the 2 hit with .22's were in casts and on crutches, for months. It just depends on what is hit. The .45's hit nothing, the .22's cut arteries, nerves, and hit bone.

Fledermas
October 10, 2009, 02:29 PM
In twenty five years of carrying I have yet to actually pull the trigger. I have however had to unholstered twice in which both situations stopped emidiately at the sight of my weapon. so the question remains...does it actually matter? As a young man I worked for a meat company as a "DropBoy" I was the one who went out to a families farm and shot dead their animals and field stripped them for transport back to the processing center. I used a Lever action Winchester chambered at .22 LR and dropped every animal including 1800lb. bulls with a single head shot from about 5 yards.

My Baby Browning .25acp has the same emotional impact as a 1911. I dont want either pointed at me.

NMGonzo
October 10, 2009, 02:59 PM
88 gun

It will be fairly painless

TimM
October 10, 2009, 04:44 PM
#1 - Any revolver cartridge
#2 - Any pistol cartridge

Ringer
October 10, 2009, 05:13 PM
Holy thread revival Batman! Almost 7 years....got to be a record.

mesinge2
October 10, 2009, 05:25 PM
1. .454 Casull
2. .50 AE
3. .45 ACP
4. .44 Mag
5. 10mm
6. .357 Mag
7. .40 S&W
8. .38 spc
9. 9mm
10. .380
11. .22 lr
12. .25 ACP

I mostly agree with 91101, except I would place 44 mag over the 45 ACP, and I would end my list with the 22 short

9MMare
October 10, 2009, 05:49 PM
I dare anyone to rank "common" handgun cartriges in the order that they would least like to be "shot" with.
Yea,....I know nobody wants to get shot but the purpose of this exersise is to make people commit to their "stopping power " beliefs in a open forum.
For the sake of the exersise let's not make shot placement an issue......or for that matter please don't include "super bullets" or anything that would tip the scales in an unfair way.In other words please "generalize"

#1 .50
#2 .38
#3 .22

Get it?.....I look foward to some of the debates on members choices......The longer the list the better .....Feel free to make comments or notes when your list is done......If this goes over well maybe I'll try it in the rifle forum.

Well.....Rank-em! :ar15:

Men should never ever ever again make fun of women and their obsessions with shoes or shopping or anything else. :evil:

Backpacker33
October 13, 2009, 10:20 PM
Bin shot w/ a .22LR. Hurt REAL bad, bled a lot.

Bin shot w/ 9mm Hydrashok. Hurt REAL bad, bled a lot.

Not interested in anything else.
Backpacker 33

PandaBearBG
October 14, 2009, 12:12 AM
Any caliber from any gun. No bullet is guaranteed to do better than another, and the human body is a funny thing, you could survive from a 308 to the chest by some freak of nature and die from a 22 hitting just the right spot.

shotgunjoel
October 14, 2009, 12:29 AM
Fledermas, why did you bring this thing back from the dead? Can we get a Mod in here to shoot this zombie thread?

Mal H
October 14, 2009, 01:36 AM
Yes.

I'm not sure what kind of search argument would be used to even find this thread and why it would be desirable to bring it back. The original poster hasn't even visited THR for over 4 years!

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