JHPs...made out of denser metals?


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natedog
April 9, 2005, 04:33 PM
After examining some 230gr. JHP and some 230 FMJ .45ACP rounds, I have to ask- are the hollow point bullets slightly longer, or made out of denser metals? Otherwise, how could the bullet have an equal mass to a solid FMJ round when it has a giant cavity in the nose?

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Redneck Revolver
April 9, 2005, 05:20 PM
could possibly be a hotter load...but im not sure so take what i say with a grain of salt.

mbs357
April 9, 2005, 05:27 PM
I think he's talking about the weight of the bullet itself.
As for the question...I dunno...that's a good question. o_O

Joejojoba111
April 9, 2005, 05:30 PM
And Hydrashoks have a steel core, right? That would make them even lighter!

Btw, how doesn't the steel core act like other AP ammunition?

Kamicosmos
April 9, 2005, 05:49 PM
And Hydrashoks have a steel core, right?

I don't think so. That would make them armor piercing, which is illegal per the ATF.

I do believe that most hollowpoint bullets use a heavier alloy mix than solid bullets in order to make it weigh the same.

mete
April 9, 2005, 06:55 PM
Hydrashoks are lead with a copper jacket as are most JHP, JSP, FMJ bullets.There have been some armor piercing rounds with a steel core.Also available are all copper bullets such as those [Barnes] loaded by Corbon.

Jeff Timm
April 9, 2005, 07:48 PM
A bullet is a very small item.

Lead is a very dense material. Pull one of each and check the weight, in a good, accurate scale designed for small weights and measures.

The 200 grain Speer bullet put slightly more length in side the case than the 200 grain SWC jacket bullet.

Geoff
Who notes most 230 gr. .45 ACP rounds are hollow based. :cool:

Black_Talon
April 9, 2005, 10:49 PM
And Hydrashoks have a steel core, right? That would make them even lighter!

No, they absolutely do not have a steel core. They have a lead core surrounded with a copper jacket.

And to natedog , the original poster:

No, hollow points aren't necessarily made from a different density of lead than FMJs. There are different densities of lead used for making various types of bullets, but the reason for that is bullet performance or possibly manufacturing considerations, not bullet size.

(FWIW, I worked at Sierra Bullets for 12 years so I can speak on this subject fairly knowledgeably) At Sierra, we use three different alloys of lead for our various pistol bullets. There is "pure" lead, lead with 1.5% antimony, and lead with 3% antimony. All of our hollowpoint line is made with pure lead. Our FMJ lines are made with 1.5% or 3% lead, mostly for manufacturring reasons.

griz
April 9, 2005, 11:43 PM
A HP bullet IS slightly longer than a FMJ of the same weight, but the cartridge is the same length because the bullet is seated deeper in the case.

Sorry if that's not an answer to what you are asking.

Gunpacker
April 10, 2005, 11:36 AM
Bullets for any caliber run the gamut in weight from very light bullets to very heavy. For instance, typical military rounds for 7.62 run from 147 to 203 grains. Obviously, the lighter bullets are much shorter. The loading specs call for a certain overall length regardless of bullet weight for purposes of feeding. Consequently, you can't tell heavy from light bullets by simply looking. The heavy bullets are simply seated deeper into the case as others have mentioned. Heavy ball versus light ball ammo varies much more in bullet size than a hollow point variation will cause. So there is no problem that needs to be solved by a variation in lead mix. Of more importance, size and shape of the bullet will affect the stabilization of the bullet and thus accuracy. Only shooting the individual gun will determine which is best, although there are trends that carry over from one gun to the next because of twist rates and similar conditions in guns of the same model.

GunnySkox
April 10, 2005, 02:49 PM
The reason you might think that Hydrashoks have a steel core is the "center post" design in the hollow point, which (IIRC) is intended to keep it from filling with stuff (which would keep it from expanding).

~Slam_Fire

Bwana John
April 11, 2005, 12:12 PM
A HP bullet IS slightly longer than a FMJ of the same weight, but the cartridge is the same length because the bullet is seated deeper in the case.
Yep.
Any differances in density (mass/volume) would be due to the lead:copper ratio in the bullet itself.

Joejojoba111
April 11, 2005, 05:27 PM
Sorry to persist, but I've seen some references to Hydrasoks having carbide cores, some with lead, but the site I'll post a link to is really one of the most trusted, imo.

http://world.guns.ru/ammo/bullets-e.htm#hydrashock

Black_Talon
April 11, 2005, 10:29 PM
Sorry to persist, but I've seen some references to Hydrasoks having carbide cores, some with lead, but the site I'll post a link to is really one of the most trusted, imo.

http://world.guns.ru/ammo/bullets-e.htm#hydrashock

Sorry bro, that site is just flat-out wrong about the construction of Hydra-Shok bullets.

Hypnogator
April 11, 2005, 11:31 PM
What y'all all are overlooking is that the hollow point of a hollow point is empty. Therefore a 230-gr solid will always be slightly shorter than the 230-gr hollow point, since the bullet has to be of the same diameter. :neener: :neener:

griz
April 13, 2005, 02:30 PM
OK, you got me wondering. I decided to compare. First I found out I don't have any FMJ 45's. So I looked at 9mm, and found the FMJ is longer than the JHP of the same weight. But the difference is in nose shape, the FMJ is rounded at the tip while the JHP is flat (in cross section). If you compared an FMJ with a flat point, you would see the FMJ is shorter.

So to get a reasonable picture to compare I went with what I had, 38 caliber. So starting on the right is a Hornady 125 grain XTP-HP for comparison. The rest are all 158 grains. The 2nd is a TnT brand FMJ, which I believe is plated. 3rd is a SP, 4th is a HP, and the last two are cast bullets for comparison. I think the jacketed 158's are representitive, and you can see the difference in length. For the non-reloaders, note the position of the cannelures. That groove would be seated at the top of the case, so the difference in length would all be inside the case.

http://tinypic.com/4gmflf

And here is a view from the top:

http://tinypic.com/4gn0co

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