New Paypal AUP for firearms.


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Derek Zeanah
March 13, 2003, 08:34 PM
Just received this via e-mail. Can't say I'm happy with the changes happening since eBay's aquisition of PayPal.

You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898. Certain related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited, as described in more detail below. In addition, it is the responsibility of users to abide by all applicable laws when dealing with the sale of permitted antique firearms, ammunition, replicas, militaria and other associated items.

What is not permitted?

Firearms
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise any firearms produced after 1898. This includes all "pre-ban," sporting, collectible, and curio and relic (C&R) firearms, regardless of their present capability to fire a shot.

Related items
In addition, you may not use PayPal to sell or advertise kits (that can be used to create a firearm) or illegal firearm components such as silencers, converters (which converts a firearm to automatic capability), and short barrels.

Ammunition
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise high capacity magazines (magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds). In addition, sellers of other ammunition with propellant (such as gunpowder) are responsible for abiding by all laws and postal regulations.

Ordnance
In general, you may not use of PayPal in conjunction with the sale of ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts) unless you can provide official documentation from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) stating that the item is unserviceable or demilitarized. Contact your local ATF office for more details on obtaining such documentation. You can also visit the ATF website for general information about firearms laws.

Grenades
You may not use PayPal to sell grenades, including metal military practice grenades, rifle grenades, dummy grenades, grenade launcher attachments, and mines. However, such items will be permitted if they are a relic, curio, memorabilia, or display item that is filled with a permanent inert substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.

Replicas without proper markings
You may use PayPal to sell firearm replicas, look-alikes and imitations as long as they comply with Federal and state laws that require such items to have clear markings permanently affixed to the weapon. The most common requirement is a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of the item. This law applies even to novelty items, such as cigarette lighters, that are designed to look like firearms.

What is permitted?

You may use PayPal to sell antique firearms (before 1898) and most legal firearm components. This includes firearm related accessories, such as holsters, scopes, and ammunition without propellant.

Blank guns, replica or imitation guns, paintball guns, and "airsoft" guns may be listed provided that:

* The item does not, and cannot be readily altered to, shoot a lethal projectile


* The receiver is not a firearm as classified by law. See U.S. Code Title 18, Section 921


* The replica or imitation gun has the legal markings required by law AND blank ammunition is not included in the sale. See U.S. Code Title 15, Section 5001

Even if the above conditions are met, PayPal does not permit the advertisement or sale of antique firearms or legal firearm components products on websites listed in PayPal Shops.

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cobb
March 13, 2003, 08:45 PM
I don't use PayPal to advertise or sell firearms and ammo, just to pay for it. :neener:

If you guys find the link to the auctions that are selling mines and hand grenades, let me know. I am kind of wondering what they are going for these day since grenade launchers have been banned.

blades67
March 13, 2003, 09:09 PM
I don't use ebay or paypal, nor will I ever because of their anti-American stance.:barf:



:cuss: them in their neck!:barf:

Zundfolge
March 13, 2003, 09:21 PM
When you use PayPal are you required to tell them what you are buying or selling?

I thought all they do is make a draw on one party's credit card and allow the other party to collect the money (minus a small fee).

I fail to see how they can say what you can and cannot buy with the money :confused:

Hkmp5sd
March 13, 2003, 09:25 PM
I've never told PayPal what I'm buying. Just tell them where to send the money.

I think what they are talking about is online dealers that advertise PayPal as a method of payment, along with credit card, check, money order, etc. No biggie. The dealer can simply open a PayPal account in another email address and then tell the buyer to send the money to that account instead of his "advertised business account."

The way it is written, this looks more like some kind of legal CYA than anti-gun.

Standing Wolf
March 13, 2003, 09:35 PM
Pay Pal apparently doesn't have a use for my discretionary income.

Daryl
March 13, 2003, 09:42 PM
I just closed my Account. Tks for the information.

jsalcedo
March 13, 2003, 09:42 PM
I don't ever tell them what I'm buying. Its none of their
business.

I guess the gunbroker ads will no longer have paypal as
one of their options.

Its paypals loss. If they don't like gun money then they can't have my other money either.

Sven
March 13, 2003, 11:47 PM
Firearms are certainly a 'hot' button for many organizations, aren't they.

Time to stock up on those post-1898 guns, folks.

Schuey2002
March 13, 2003, 11:56 PM
FWIW, I closed my Paypal account a long time ago..

I wonder why they chose "1898" as the cut off date?:confused:

__________________
Molon Labe!!

voilsb
March 14, 2003, 12:05 AM
there's no way they can enforce this. just send your payments as "goods - non auction" or "goods - auction" and don't worry about it. they're just a transaction middle-man.

besides, I was always purchasing used shipping containers. the firearms/accessories were the free bonus to go along with it. kinda like if you buy a box of cereal and there's a free prize that comes along with it.

I have, however, occaisionally let someone buy money from me. I usually let them barter, too, using firearm-related goods as payment for my money. :D

Diesle
March 14, 2003, 12:10 AM
Talk about some un-enforcable B.S.

I always wondered who was running that ship to turn away the absolute fortune in revenues from the trade of legal firearms and supplies... Sounds like bad business management to me.

Its like a bar refusing to sell alcohol because the owner doesnt believe in it....Just pop....


Very Odd,

Diesle

synoptic
March 14, 2003, 12:40 AM
I wonder why they chose "1898" as the cut off date?

Guns manufactured before (for the most part) are not considered firearms

Bruce H
March 14, 2003, 06:46 AM
Typical liberal solution to a perceived problem. We have made a rule that makes us feel good. The rule is totally unenforceable but we have spoken. Don't we all feel good about ourselves.

2nd Amendment
March 14, 2003, 10:51 AM
I continue to use ebay because it is such a great source of antique cars, trucks and parts. That and it's a ton of fun watching guys sell those 20rnd FN mags as "pre-ban 10rnd". :D It's also fun to specifically use PayPal for all the things they say you can't do with it since there's no way they can do a thing about it.

Keep in mind though, these guys aren't stupid. They know they can't stop people from doing as they will. They're just covering their own asses should a lawsuit ever result over something. "Hey! We SAID they couldn't ship/buy/pay that, doggonit." In this legal atmosphere of today I can't blame them...too much.

Topgun
March 14, 2003, 11:04 AM
I just sold a $2000.00 coin. From a VERIFIED seller to a VERIFIED buyer.

They restricted my account. Cust service would not explain why.
I had to send TWO faxes (both printed on cover sheets that MUST be downloaded from them....or they won't accept)

I had to send them my FULL social security number, a utility bill, last bank statement, a LETTER from my bank, and my FULL bank acct number. Procedures that are ABSOLUTELY not advised by anyone.

Then, after a 2 week wait, they lifted the restriction BUT would only allow $500 per month withdrawal.

All for a LEGAL transaction. With NO explanation.

They DID allow me full access AFTER authorizing an extra $1.95 charge to my bank account.

I closed my account yesterday.

A BUCK NINETY FIVE to access MY money.

Not again, boss.

Quartus
March 14, 2003, 11:22 AM
The way it is written, this looks more like some kind of legal CYA than anti-gun.

I continue to use ebay because it is such a great source of antique cars, trucks and parts.

:rolleyes:


There's no middle ground any more. You are either supporting the Constitution, or you are undermining it.


No matter WHAT handle you use on a firearms board! :fire:

hops
March 14, 2003, 01:57 PM
Topgun:

I wonder, based upon your description, if Pay pal has to 'report' certain levels of financial activities - like a bank or credit card company has to as part of the Patriot Act??

I have never used paypal and have no plans to do so in the future.

anchored
March 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
There's no middle ground any more. You are either supporting the Constitution, or you are undermining it.

Trouble is, it's a private enterprise in a free country - it's exercising its constitutional rights and has no power to affect yours. So that's really a non-issue.

beemerb
March 14, 2003, 02:56 PM
I have never used nor will I ever use paypal.
If you want to use something for your bigger money transactions use bidpay.Cost is paid by the buyer and cost him 5.00.I have sold on ebay for about 5 yrs now and is a small source for extra money.Being on disability SS it is something I have to have to survive.
Bob

spacemanspiff
March 14, 2003, 03:30 PM
so, if i see an ad on gunbroker for a kimber tle II and it says "pre-1898" i could still use paypal?

seems like maybe a lot more firearm descriptions will be for 'older' weapons....

edit - have you ever checked to see what types of things a person can pay for using paypal? wonder if paypal will crack down on people using them to pay for other illegal activities.

Topgun
March 14, 2003, 05:42 PM
If it were a required reporting amount, they could have told me.

They had all required info to "report" if that were the case.

But to HOLD the funds??????
Go ahead and report it (don't like it but I'm a typical gutless American who has allowed the Bush administration to castrate me and my liberties as have all who haven't taken up arms)

but.....don't HOLD it and give me an ALLOWANCE per month.

I closed the account.

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