[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

Does anyone have any opinions on the various brands of gun vaults on the market?

Do any of them stand out above the others in security and fire resistence?

Are there any good sources for researching the various brands?

I'm going to be buying a very very large one to house my beloved collection in the foreseeable future and would like to gather as much information as possible.

Thank you for your input.

- Anthony

[sarhog]

I got a Winchester gunsafe for Christmas, very similar to this one. (http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/main_shopping.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&n=0&mt=a&coe=0&oidPath=0:-23542:-39352:-39456:852812)
Someone else actually makes the safe, but I don't recall who. I believe there are only 2 or 3 gun safe manufacturers .
Anyhow, mine is the same size as the one in the link, 14 long guns on one side, and shelves for handguns and ammo and stuff on the other, or 28 long guns with no shelves.
I paid around $600 from Sam's Club.
I'm very happy with it, if I had it to do over, I might opt for the electronic combo thing. I lock and unlock mine twice a day usually, an electronic lock would be nice.
Good luck. :)

[LiquidTension]

Before CB900R sees this, know that they are RSCs (Residential Security Containers), not safes. He's the guy to talk to, as he does safe/RSC stuff for a living.

[ulflyer]

Sarhog, how did you get that thing home from Sam's, and then into your house? What sort of manpower and equip does it take?

[sarhog]

Sarhog, how did you get that thing home from Sam's, and then into your house? What sort of manpower and equip does it take?

When I went to look, they only had the floor model left, so that's what I got.
That being said, there was no "box" for it. It was bolted to a pallet slightly bigger then the footprint of the safe (or, residential security container :rolleyes: ).
I put a couple of layers of loose cardboard down in the bed of my truck (shortbed F-250) and, with the help of a few Sam's employees, laid it down "on it's back" in the bed of the truck and tied it down with a few motorcycle tiedowns.

When i got home, I backed the truck right up to the front porch and slid the safe out (with the help of the cardboard)until it was teetering on the tailgate.
I then "tipped" it out so it was standing upright on it's pallet directly in front of the front door. The pallet height was the same height as my front doorway.
I then unbolted it from the pallet and "walked it" into the house (rocking corner to corner) and onto another piece of cardboard.
Finally, I slid it, using the cardboard as a sled, into position. I have hardwood floors by the way.
Good luck. :)

[Ohen Cepel]

To move them a lot of golf balls will work, just roll right along.

[GunFixer]

I have a Zanotti Armor Safe. Check them out at http://www.zanottiarmor.com

[Ala Dan]

I have a 23 gun Liberty Colonial Series RSC, that I bought NIB for $799 OTD.
Its forrest green (glossy) with gold accents, and suits my needs.

[tegemu]

One of our posters (I forgot who ) is a locksmith and gives superb advice regarding safes, hopefully he will chime in. I think he is located in Kansas City or St. Louis. If anyone knows who I'm talking about, how 'bout advising this fellow.

[Anna's Dad]

Hi all,

I would love some advise on purchasing a safe for multiple handguns.

I have a Gun Vault that I use to lock up a couple of loaded guns at night.

What I'm really looking for is a safe that can hold about 10 hand guns that won't break the bank or fill up my entire closet (my wife does a good enough job with both of these things). I don't have any long guns so I really don't need one of those 55" or 60" monsters.

I don't think I care if its really a gun safe or not as long as it has shelving, I can rig something up to safely and securely hold the guns.

Any suggestions?

[f4t9r]

Check out Sam's Club $581 is a good deal

[Rembrandt]

Bought a National Security Magnum Plus, huge safe....1500lbs empty, retailed for around $4K in 1990. Love the safe but would not buy one this large again...too hard to move. Would have been better getting two smaller ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/safe_Magnum_r4_c12.jpg

[Tifosi]

I just ordered one this AM. I spent more time reading posts, reviews, opinions about them, than I ever did when buying a firearm. Its great that there is so much info around. I just hope it is big enough that I never have to go thru this again. Even the specs have specs. BTW it is a AMSEC BF series.

[Anna's Dad]

I didn't start this thread, but I want to thank everyone for all of the posts. I did find a safe that will work for me at Sam's club. Its not a "gun safe", but a relatively small business fire safe. It will hold the guns I need it to hold, is small enough to not fill up my closet and, best of all, it's about half the price of the same safe at Office Depot! I had no idea Sam's had such great prices.

Again, a big "thank you" to everyone who's contributed.

- Anna's Dad

[warriorsociologist]

just remember to bolt that smaller safe down. One of a "HSC's" lesser-mentioned assets is it's weight. You wouldn't want a thief merely snatching your document safe with all your handguns and breaking on his own time in his garage...

[Nortonics]

Go with the largest Cannon Traditional Series safe you can afford with the electronic keypad. Compare and do your homework and you'll see why.

http://www.cannonsafe.com/safestraditionalseries/

http://verizonsupersite.com/cannonsafecom/nss-folder/pictures/1T27_large.jpg

[Langenator]

You can find more info about the safes CB900R sells at www.graffundersafes.com (http://www.graffundersafes.com)

I bought one of their safes from CB earlier this year, and I've been more than satisfied. The thing is a beast-it weighs literally a ton and a half, and being as I'm in the Army, the movers are going to have fun next summer.

The company that makes them is located in Yakima, WA, and since I was fortuitously TDY at the Yakima Training Center, I drove down to the plant. Extremely thick steel, with the space between inner and outer walls filled with concrete instead of drywall. Oh, and the folks who work there were extremely nice, too.

But I'll feel safe keeping my collection in this bad boy, no matter where the Army sends me-even Killeen, TX (Ft Hood).

[bulbboy]

I need the best one I can find for under $500. This Sentry model at Lowe's seems to fit the bill for me. I only have handguns and this one shelves move to make it a "handgun only" safe. Is this decent for the price? $427

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/kevinmichaeldick/lowessafe.jpg

Exterior dimensions: 59"H x 21"W x 17 3/4"D
7-14 gun safe capacity
Solid steel construction
3-number combination lock with lever handle
1-year warranty
4-way convertible interior

[RugerGuy]

Bulbboy, I've got an older model of that very same safe. Mine has granite bricks stacked inside on the floor as the safe only weighs 325 lbs empty. I paid $339 for it at Wal-Mart a few years ago. I'd shop around a little if I were you. Both Cannon and Browning make plain jane models that go for a little more than you want to spend. I've seen them both recently for $849. An extra $350 will get you alot higher quality safe that'll give you room to expand your gun collection and last a lifetime. When I bought my first safe I said it would serve me good enough..........I now have three of them. :D

[Tifosi]

Bulbboy as Rugerguy said, I would shop around some more. If you have a Tractor Supply around they market a Cannon American Eagle series safe under their name model TS6030 (its a AE 22 on Cannons website) 525 lbs , 1200 degrees for 30 minutes for $689. Just a tought. Costco seems to be selling the same delivered to your home at $999. Costco's is only available on their website while Tractor Supply's is not on their website but only in the store. Go figger. Good Luck

[CB900F]

Fella's;

It's CB900F, in Great Falls Montana. :p

If circumstances demand that you purchase an RSC, get the least expensive you find with the features you want. The actual protective capabilities between them are minimal at best. Search for "RSC" here on THR & you'll find several of my posts concerning the differences between safes & RSC's

But, if you want a safe, and the advantages that come with one, talk to me.

900F

[Will Learn]

I just got the Winchester safe(24 gun 580 lbs.) from Sam's club with the digital keypad. It is a great safe and I would highly reccomend it for the price($600). I rented a U haul for $20 and a fridge dolly for $10, worked great. They will put the safe on the truck for you at the store but then your on your own. Just make sure you get a truck with a ramp, then back up to your house. Me and my friend got it in the house by ourselves in less than an hour(We are both '6.1'' 260 though). good luck.

[Car Knocker]

It is a great safe and I would highly reccomend it for the price($600).

What makes it a great safe? Thanks.

[Will Learn]

Judge for yourself,http://winchestersafes.com/

[MrRandy724]

By all means, go with a digital locking system, also with the aid of magnetic stitches, the vault door can be integrated with a home security system,
Ive done this with portable safes in automobiles

[allank]

Timely thread! I've not bought one yet but have been looking and doing a lot of research.

The Winchester 60x30x22 with UL listed electronic lock at Sams Club for $581 is a great price, if you have help or hire someone to move a 575 pound safe. I like the 6-digit lock - too many combinations to guess. And it is large enough to keep me going for years. The total depth including the handle is just under 24.5 inches - so check door widths first! I need to remove a door in the area it will be installed to fit it in.

The Tractor Supply TS6030 also looks good at $690. But this is a combination lock, which seemed tricky to operate, and I preferred the UL electronic lock. Since the Sam's Club Winchester is also 12 guage I did not see any benefit in this model.

For something less expensive try Dicks Sporting Goods Stack-On GS-16BLK, on sale right now for $300. Not UL listed but with electronic lock. However I did not like this because the lock is only 3-digits, which is not enough to keep out a determined kid from trying the possible combinations.

[allank]

Can anyone correct me regards the Stack-On GS-16BLK? According to CA DOJ Regulatory Gun Safe Standards (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe.htm), a mechanical or electronic lock must have at least 10,000 possible combinations. Since the GS-16BLK is CA DOJ approved (it appears on their list of approved devices (http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.us/safetydevice/desc_rpt.asp)) that implies the passcode must be 4 digits.

Is that correct? Also does anyone know what the lockout period is in minutes after three incorrect tries?

I was assuming 3 digits, 1000 combinations, only need to guess half to get correct code, 5 minute lockout (don't know if this is correct), so possibly as little as 1000/2/3*5 = 13 hours. But at 10,000 combitations that is now 10000/2/3*5 = 5+ days. That would be enough, and would give me a suitable safe for my needs that I could fit in the house.

[leadcounsel]

www.sturdysafe.com

Talk to Terry and he'll tell you all you need to know.

Look for REAL fire resistent material, not "gypsum fireboard" (eg drywall).

Look for Thick steel, not the cheap 14 gauge stuff.

Look for commercial grade combo locks, not cheap plastic ones.

[allank]

Went to Dick's and checked out the GS-16BLK. I don't know how it is on the CADOJ list because it only has a 3-digit passcode. And the lockout period is only 20 seconds. With the ease of entering numbers using an electronic keypad that is not sufficient for my requirements.

[Tifosi]

Buying a safe based on prices reminds me of an old Bell Helmet advertisement "If you got a ten dollar head buy a ten dollar helmet". I think construction and content would be a better basis. Just my $ .02.

[a1abdj]

Buying a safe based on prices reminds me of an old Bell Helmet advertisement "If you got a ten dollar head buy a ten dollar helmet". I think construction and content would be a better basis. Just my $ .02.

That is true, but it is a little more difficult with gun safes. I've seen $3,000 gun safes which are equally as junky as the $500 safes.

Anybody who really needs a safe should speak to somebody in the safe business....not a gun store, sporting goods shop, big box retail outlet, or any other person bound to spew misinformation.

[greg531mi]

I think what you get in a safe, if you look for construction, not pretty paint, or a fancy electronic dial, or a nice logo on it, you get what you pay for. Most criminals are amatuers, and want to get in and out in a hurry, knowing the more time they spend in a place, the more likely to be caught.
Saw a $25 "safe" at harbor freight, I was thinking of using that as a decoy. Got a couple of used bricks I could fill up in there. And they will be too loaded down to get the TV and other heavy stuff. Maybe even store some black powder, in there, to keep it away from my kids......
Check on the size, it tells you 10 guns, expect on getting 8 in there....If you have 10 long guns, get at least a 20 gun safe.
Check out the specs... Look at weight, gauge of steel, dial, and fire rating,(exspecially if you live out in the country) and get one that that you most afford, but get one. Go cheap, and you are risking it....go expensive for 3 or 4 milsurps, and you are wasting your money, til you get some expensive guns....then you can always up grade.....but, it's like going to a gun fight, what counts is that you have one....
wish all my dumb friends and relations have at least a cheap one, for $300, for a couple of deer rifles and shotguns, plus some ammo and knives, it is cheap insurance, in most cases. I know of a lot of them already got ripped off, and cry about it. But, when I sugguested a gun safe, oh it is safe in my closet....til it walks out with the perp, and on the street....Make it hard for them, to carry away, line it with bricks, ammo, lead shot, etc...and bolt it to the floor, and the wall. Get big bolts, and strip the threads off, or weld them them on....I know of a store owner, that had a safe, that was 2000 lbs, and they got it out of the store....Of course, he had a two wheeler about right next to it, and no alarms...
Just don't waste you money on a metal storage locker, my old school locker were studier than those things.....

[allank]

I found out today that I cannot get the Sam's club 500+ pound safe into my basement. It is a sunken basement (no walkout) and several movers either severely warned me about the wooden stairs or flat out refused to take the safe down them. They are concerned the stairs will not hold the weight of the safe plus movers. Plus the moving costs were anywhere from "several hundred dollars" to $500. And a professional safe place in town only drop-ships safes and leaves it up to the homeowner to install them.

So I'm back to the Stack-On GS-16BLK (which of course is no longer on sale!). I'll add an external door or some sort of locked cover over the lock area to keep people away from trying random unlock codes. Or perhaps just add a second lock to keep the door closed.

[a1abdj]

And a professional safe place in town only drop-ships safes and leaves it up to the homeowner to install them.


They are obviously not a professional safe place.

What part of the world are you in? I can look up a few SAVTA members (real professional safe people) and see if anybody is near you.

[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks so much for all of the information on my thread.

This has really proven to be a popular one.

Does anyone have any experience or opinion about Fort Knox brand gun safes?

[a1abdj]

I'm a Fort Knox dealer for only one reason:

They build a good looking safe, and a lot of my customers want something that has a furniture style finish, and impressive boltwork system.

Some of the Fort Knox line is more secure than many of your typical gun safes, but overall they're all pretty similar.

[allank]

Thanks to a1abdj for recommending a SAVTA member. They are much more professional than the places I tried (piano movers etc), and are coming out to inspect the stairs and quote the job. If you want to look up SAVTA members in your area, try the SAVTA website (http://www.savta.org/iframe.php?id=23). I'm going with a1abdj's recommendation, but I did find that the state search worked better than zip code search.

[CB900F]

Allank;

There are solutions to the stair situation. One, you can get a few 2X4's, measure the angle, cut & fit from the floor to the stringers under your stairs. How many will depend on the length of your stairway & the quality of it's construction, but 3 additional supports on each stringer is usually adequate for anything I move. Two, the SAVTA shop will have a Steprider crawler to take your safe down the stairs. These are a caterpillar tread mover that spreads the weight over at least three steps at a time while crawling down the stairway. Our shop has one of these, it's not a cheap item of equipment, so don't expect the shop you've contacted to automatically have one. But it can handle safes weighing far more than anything that's been discussed here.

900F

[Euclidean]

Fella's;

It's CB900F, in Great Falls Montana.

If circumstances demand that you purchase an RSC, get the least expensive you find with the features you want. The actual protective capabilities between them are minimal at best. Search for "RSC" here on THR & you'll find several of my posts concerning the differences between safes & RSC's

But, if you want a safe, and the advantages that come with one, talk to me.

900F

That's kind of the way I feel about it. I was all upset over the prospect of what an RSC couldn't do and came to realize I just wasn't ready for a real safe yet, largely due to finances but also due to other, "logistic" factors for lack of a better word.

I found something that will keep an honest man honest and represents an honest effort on my part to provide some form of security. Some day I hope I can have a proper vault, but until then I'll do what I can.

[GreyMauser]

I've owned a couple of gunsafes over the years, both Liberty brand, both live in the garage. I've learned (1) I don't move them, the dealer does, or I buy elsewhere. (2) I like mechanical dials, the kind you twirl through 4 positions, not electronic. (3) They won't store the advertised number of rifles without putting dings in the walnut stocks. Figure on 70-75% useful capacity vs. advertised capacity. (4) While garage security isn't tops, it can be enhanced with bolts into the floor, and stud-and drywall screening walls. (5) If I need (and I soon will) more storage for guns, I will get a Zanotti modular and install it upstairs.

[defendfreedom]

http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpghttp://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-closed.jpghttp://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-digital-lock.jpghttp://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safes-corner-door.jpg

We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:


Gun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out? http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372

[defendfreedom]

[img src="http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg"]
[img src="http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-closed.jpg"]
We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:


Gun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out? [IMG][IMG]http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372

[defendfreedom]

We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:

http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-40wide-closed.jpgGun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out? http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I do believe the above is a sales pitch.

900F

[Anthony]

Gee Defend Freedom,

Do you work for Patriot Safe Company?

[Car Knocker]

defendfreedom,

You would have a whole lot more credibility if every post you made wasn't an attempt to generate sales for your product. Try contributing to the community for a change!

[RNB65]

Looks like the only credibility he has is as a targeted spammer. Other than that, his contribution to this forum has been ZERO. :rolleyes:

At least he's given me one company not to do business with.

[a1abdj]

I think this is a good point to point out some of the reasons that it's important to speak with a real safe professional, and not just somebody who sells safes.

For starters, when you think Patriot, you think USA. Think again, as this Patriot is Chinese in origin.

This dealer says:

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection".

And then says:

1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.


I understand that this mystery "PYRO BLOCKER" is being used with the UL Listed X Type fire board together. What I wanted to point out, is that the competitor's "low cost gypsum board" and Patriot's "U.L. listed x-type fire rated fire board" are probably the exact same thing. Don't get confused by the fancy language.

This person has also been selling these safes on E-bay, and although seems to be doing OK lately, has some pretty interesting negative feedback from about a year back.

I will also point out that there are many dealers, myself included, which sell very similar safes produced by the same manufacturer, for less money. It's all smoke and mirrors.

After looking at their website, I do have a new favorite quote regarding their locks:

"Military Grade X 2400" Advanced hyper sensitive alarm, Tele-Touch Swiss motion detector, External back up power source
( Limited level 10 style with tripple rlockers),
laser cut primary key & anti-pick medical key
(Advanced Technology).

I don't know what the heck that is, but it doesn't say "UL Rated".

[ramon]

Maybe I'm missing something-but how thick is the steel on the door, sides, top and bottom? Saying the door is five inches thick doesn't tell us how much steel or sheet metal is used. Isn't there a difference between plate steel and sheet metal? All the door bolts in the world don't mean much if you can open the sides with a screwdriver.

[Anthony]

Does anyone have an opinion on who makes the best gun safe that is officially classified as a SAFE and not a "Home Security Container" like so many gun safes are these days?

[1 old 0311]

May want to add one of these:
www.stopthecrime.com/prod-ab2000.htm

[a1abdj]

Does anyone have an opinion on who makes the best gun safe that is officially classified as a SAFE and not a "Home Security Container" like so many gun safes are these days?


Graffunder and AMSEC are the only two companies that I'm familiar with that build true safes configured as gun safes.

Just about everything Graffunder builds qualifies even though they don't carry a UL tag, and the AMSEC RF6528 which is a UL TL-30 composite.

I also restore older safes, and often turn them into gun safes. I'm sure there are other safe companies around the country that do the same thing.

[CB900F]

Anthony;

Yes, as a matter of fact I do have an opinion on that very subject. Please PM me. No, I don't name brands on open sites, for good reason.

900F

[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

I went to an American Security (Amsec) distributor over the weekend and was very impressed with the gun safes they had in stock.

They were definitely a cut above any of the mainstream gun safe brands including Fort Knox.

Does anyone know of a Graffunder dealer here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

[Car Knocker]

From Graffunder's site:

For more information & for a dealer near you, contact us toll-free at 866-457-1801

[JohnBT]

Want to spend $5k or $10k on a gun safe? Lots of info at this site on all sorts of safes. Plus shipping.

www.brownsafe.com/categories/80A98312-FA4D-9E42-B9A9677D2724847D/models.htm


And ballistic vault doors, too.

"Standard Features
Built to withstand the impact of a .50 Caliber / 12.7 MM bullet
Certified test plate with fired cartidge included with all Ballistic vault doors
1/2" thick solid armor plate on all Ballistic vault doors
Granulated tungsten carbide hard plate to protect the locks and bolt work from drill attacks
Inner escape device to prevent accidental lock-ins
Continous locking lug on hinge side
Five active and passive relocking devices with mechanical and thermic triggering to thwart torch and lance attacts"

www.brownsafe.com/categories/7A4AD841-F18C-505F-DEFD0FCB8FE84C52/models.htm

[allank]

As a beginner I hope my experiences purchasing a safe (or more accurately RSC?) will help others with their choices. Some of my earlier thoughts are described above.

Based on my research, the excellent posts in this thread and elsewhere in the forum, and discussion with forum member a1abdj, I bought a Diamond Back GS5928H from a1abdj, who was very helpful and informative. This met my requirements, which are to safely and relatively economically (although this is still $$$) store firearms away from very inquisitive children and their friends (especially when they are all older teenagers and the parents might not be home) and casual and even not so casual burglars. The safe has a 1 hour fire liner, but I purchased it mainly for safety.

I chose the Diamond Back H series because it has a LaGard UL rated mechanical lock compared to the L series lighter duty non-mechanical lock. In addition it was stronger compared to some other safes I was looking at for only slightly more money. I could have spent even more for an AMSEC or similar, but had to stop the spending somewhere! I specifically did not purchase an electronic lock, not because of its increased price, but because I thought a mechanical lock should provide better long term reliability over 10 or 20 years. I bought the GS5928H instead of the GS5924H because I felt a wider door would provide better light and access (and it does).

I had the safe delivered to a local SAVTA member who moved it into my house and down some stairs. Although they did not require the stairs to be reinforced for this safe (540 pounds) I felt better reinforcing the stairs as described by CB900F here. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2527287&postcount=38) With some additional securing this had the significant additional advantage of making the stairs completely solid and stopped the squeaks, creaks, and groans that had been bugging me for a long time!

I mounted the safe on a 3/4" plywood base over bare concrete, with the plywood base 1" larger in width and depth than the safe providing a small overhang. This, plus spacing the safe slightly off the back wall, keeps any damp from direct contact with the safe. I then leveled the safe (so the door does not swing by itself) and secured it through the plywood to the concrete with the supplied concrete bolts. Securing the safe is a must to prevent it tipping forwards when you open the door! In addition, it provides additional security in preventing easy removal of the safe.

[2PAK]

Also, its nice to have a lightwieght wood cabinet over the safe. I have one that fits over my safe in the garage. Has two double doors (with key locks) one door open to the safe which is completely locked. The other side is just a cabinet with selves for other gun or sports gear. Just looks like a nice wood cabinet from the outside. This wont deter someone from breaking in but it will deter the Juvy who wont understand thier is a safe behind the door. Just my 2 cents.

[dogtag]

I just bought a Winchester safe, model #5520 for $600 out the door. It was at our local Gun Range on sale. It is one of the smaller long-gun safes but it will do. Black with a sandpaper finish and Winchwester logo in gold, combination lock with a key-lock to lock the combo. I can not seem to locate anything on the internet relating to this particular model, anybody have any knowledge of this model? It was a job getting it in the house but I got it done fine with a few neighbors. I do feel much better leaving the house now with my guns secured in it.

dogtag

[mrgrinch]

If it's anything like the $581 Sam's Club Winchester safe, it is made by this outfit... http://www.granitesafe.com/winchester.html There are some details listed there.

[dogtag]

That is the one, in black...it doesn't have the key-pad lock like the one in the picture...dial combination.
Thanks!

dogtag

[Sturdy Gun Safe, Mfg.]

You guys would get a kick out of this thread about gun safes on here. It's at www.thehighroad.org

/showthread.php?t=284466&highlight=sturdy+safe

[Jim K]

Well, 12 gauge steel may be "flimsy", and I agree that a good safe should be thicker, but anyone who says it is no better than a filing cabinet doesn't know much about filing cabinets. Old filing cabinets were generally made of 20 gauge steel (.036"), but most modern ones, even the more expensive, are made from 24 gauge steel (.024"). 12 gauge steel is .104", four times as thick as most filing cabinet steel.

Jim

[LT1coupe]

we bought the 6030 at Sams & like it very well. Just FYI you'll need help getting it out of the truck. 575lbs empty

[Sturdy Gun Safe, Mfg.]

:) You guys really need to check us out. www.sturdysafe.com . We offer thick 7 or 8 gauge bodies, with even thicker doors, fire liner with no cheap sheetrock or cement in it what so ever, plus we line the whole safe. Our linkage design is far more superior than most safes on the market, and you CANNOT beat the price for what your getting. High end safes that can be compaired to ours have prices that range from $300-$2000 more than what we price our safes to be.

Most of you comment towards how thick the steel is in most safes on the market, so here's my answer. If your not happy with what you see, we can build you a safe the exact way you wanted it, and it will still be a great deal.

[ROCKETBMM]

Can anyone help me, I let the darn paperwork blow away as I moved the safe home from Sam's Club. Now the safe door is open, I have no light on keypad. What next? Do I need a battery installed, if so how?? I have a fax if you can fax the info to me.
Thanks, for any assistance.

[OzarkGator]

Sturdy looks like a fine safe but, They are so ugly I would never put one in my house.
If you wanted to put it in a garage or something then fine. But they need to do something with that utility cabinet look.

[78tsubaki]

Once you get up close and personal with a Sturdy you will quickly realize that they are really robust, functional and nice looking. Made in the USA by a family owned business. Fit and finish is great, exactly what I was looking for. The after the sale service is good enough that I will buy from them again.
I am confident and comforted by the fact that the thick steel, and solid door design will help to keep the creeps out while my dog is chewing on their leg and the police are called.
That is the real beauty of the Sturdy Safe. This RSC is designed to buy more time so your other layers of security can finish the job.

[Anthony]

I was surprised to receive an email on this thread after such a long time. So I wanted to log in and give an update.

Due to cost and other considerations I bought an AMSEC BF series safe that is extremely wide and holds more stuff than I could currently fill. The dealer is down the street from my home and they had a sale during the depths of the recession. So I got a good deal.

[leadcounsel]

Quick answer is www.sturdysafe.com. Excellent safe for the money.


Covered EXTENSIVELY here - do a search.

[JCinPA]

Getting a good deal on an Amsec BF was very lucky. I've done a lot of looking around and reading here and value for the money it's hard to beat the Amsec BF series. Although there is a lot of debate about whether thicker steel in the Sturdysafe or the true composite (cement like stuff, not gypsum board) in the Amsec is more secure, truth be told, they are probably both pretty much impervious to attack with a fireman's ax or other breaching tool, but both would fall to a guy with a power concrete saw, so I think the debate is probably a tempest in a teapot. I've only heard good things from Sturdysafe owners, too.

I'm looking to get an Amsec BF eventually to replace my now too-small Liberty. But I'd probably feel well served by the Sturdysafe. They seem to be the two most recommended around here. I think you can actually get the Amsec BF for a little less money or the same as a Sturdysafe, and they are certainly better looking. That's important to the wife (ours is indoors on the main floor).

If anyone is worried about burglars with power tools, arguing about which RSC is the way to go is pretty much a waste of time. I'm not worried about that, though, and I love the Amsec BF. Saw one in a showroom recently and they are gorgeous.


Edit: I'm perhaps violating my own rule about discussing differences in security in RSC containers :rolleyes: but FWIW, that half-inch plate in the Amsec BF door gets to B-rated territory, at least for the door (it's not B-rated because of the walls). Supposedly dumb theives attack the door first, and if that happens, the Amsec BF series is phenomenal protection for the price. Sturdy's at 5/16 or 1/4 inch for their door plate is not too shabby either. I still think the walls are probably not worth arguing about in these containers. I am not a safe tech nor do I play one on TV, but I think Amsec and Sturdy are your two best bets over any other commercially made RSC boxes. a1abdj has convinced me Amsec probably has the slight edge but Sturdy is likely better than any Liberty, Heritage, even Fort Knox in terms of value for the dollar. If you don't need a burlary rated safe you'd probably be well served with either of these brands.

But boy that Amsec is purty! ;)

[al123]

Anthony wrote:
Due to cost and other considerations I bought an AMSEC BF series safe that is extremely wide and holds more stuff than I could currently fill. The dealer is down the street from my home and they had a sale during the depths of the recession. So I got a good deal.

Congrats on your purchase. With the AMSEC BF, it's important to shop around. I've found prices are all over the place. IMO, if you can get a good deal on upper end versions of Fort Knox, Browning,or Liberty, it'll be just as acceptable. I've found prices for the Sturdy or AMSEC BF to generally be better deals or easier to get.

JCinPA wrote:
... Although there is a lot of debate about whether thicker steel in the Sturdysafe or the true composite (cement like stuff, not gypsum board) in the Amsec is more secure, truth be told, they are probably both pretty much impervious to attack with a fireman's ax or other breaching tool...

I found this image of the BF cut-away.

http://www.authoritysafes.com/images/detailed/amsec-BF_BodyCutaway12622879344b3cfc3e3821d.jpg

http://www.authoritysafes.com/images/detailed/amsec-BF_BodyCutaway12622879344b3cfc3e3821d.jpg. Image from www.authoritysafes.com.


This version looks like it says 11 ga. outer/16 ga. inner. One has to make up their own mind if the Drylight adds burglary protection. IMO, it adds "some". Other people believe it adds "none". My examination was that Drylight was like tile grout or hardened pumice. Regardless, people far knowledgeable than I have expressed skepticism of any RSC with sheet steel bodies being impervious to brute force attacks. I think some are just more resistant than others. ;)

[JCinPA]

Yeah, I agree with RSC containers don't have much difference. That said, I'd like the 7 gauge steel in a Sturdy, especially with the extra steel option (they weld another sheet on the sides) or the composite structure of the BF a lot better than an 11 or 12 gauge wall. I think the differences between the Sturdy and the BF and an 11 or 12 gauge wall would not be insignificant. I suspect the differences between the Sturdy and the BF are probably insignificant. Does that makes sense?

In other words get the stronger end of the RSC spectrum rather than the low end, and Sturdy and Amsec BF are at the high end, which is probably why they are so popular. But trying to worry the security difference between those two to death is probably not worthwhile.

The Summit Denali is coming in at a good price point with 3/16 walls and a 1 1/4"correction 3/4" door (a 3/8 plate with a 3/16th welded on both sides of it). I think that's a contender, but I don't know much about them, they appear to be a pretty new outfit. I also think they use gypsum in the walls, but I'm not sure. I think they mix the ceramic blanket in the door/ceiling and gypsum in the walls, anyone know for sure?

I know I'd be happy with the security of either a Sturdy or Amsec BF, but I'm still leaning Amsec myself. Have to sell my current one and do some saving first, though.

[Schofield3]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/01/21/2008656082.jpg

[BelleSecurity]

I open and service safes and vaults for a living, I had the opportunity to dissect and examine a gun safe fairly new in the market manufactured by Pendleton Safe Company, Atlanta GA. I have worked on thousands of safes and as far as Gun Safes go the Pendleton line are the best and toughest on the market. One downfall is that there is no fire insulation. http://pendletonsafes.com

In reality fire rated gun safes are overrated, your chances of a pry bar attack are much greater than being involved with a fire....

That being said, I have been involved in the opening of gun safes that did fall victim to fire, in every case the contents required much refurbishing and in some instances a total loss regardless of fire rating. The sale persons can show lab test results, I enclosed a couple pics of those So Called "fire rated" safes.

[Jim Watson]

I have been both ways.
The burglary was a grabbit and run job, he took the stuff laying out for cleaning, etc. and apparently dismissed the safe as too much trouble.
The fire attacked the unsecured guns with a very little scorching and a lot of smoke and water damage. The guns in the old unlined Treadlock were untouched.

Just one example but a demonstration that you don't have to have a perfect safe but you do need a safe. I will, of course, be getting a larger and more modern unit.

[CB900F]

Belle;

It's obvious you've never run across either an AMSEC HS series, Brown, or Graffunder safe. They are the only true U.L. rated safes on the market that I know of. All the rest are RSC's.

I'll look into these Pendelton units though, and post what I find.

900F