[isaidme]

Truthfully did these bullets have any advantage over other ammo?

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I cannot say with regard to human beings. I shot a Texas whitetail with one of the old 230 gr "Black Talons." The bullet was recovered and had expanded like an ad for Winchester, little hooks and all.

The deer acted kind of like most that I've shot with a pistol did:

Jumped, ran about 25 yards or so and keeled over.

The wound channel did not appear better or worse than others made with different forty-five rounds.

It's my understanding that the newer version of this round open a bit quicker than the original and that they do so whether passing through most barriers or hit the target unobstructed. I'd place more value on this than on possible advantages in wounding due to the little hooks.

Best.

[isaidme]

Thanks stephen!I ordered some for my/dads 380mustang.Im leaving my dad a gun when I move so that he will have some form of protection and wanted the best round possible in 380cal.Nothings too good for my pop's:D

[WESHOOT2]

Might be R-P's 102g Golden Saber.

Let me rephrase: If I were to own a 380 and not make ammo I believe that's what you'd find in my gun. :eek:

[dongun]

It seems like I read on TFL where Winchester was still selling Black Talon bullets for the handloaders. Anybody know for sure?

[coonan357]

as for winchester still selling BT components, I never seen any for sale .as for finished ammo it was for sale but discontinued ( you can find it floating around in shows or on a shelf at dealers still , it has been replaced By Ranger SXT ( leo Only ) same bullets with out the black coating . My experiance with them was good it opened up like it was supposed to and caused major damage . BTW it was a rabid feline .

[Shawn Dodson]

I performed an unpublished study with the police department I worked for.

The study involved modifying several human sized silhoutte targets by stenciling depictions of major cardiovascular structures on the reverse (unseen) side of the target. During a quarterly shooting quals, officers were instructed to draw and fire a specified number of rounds at the target. The study involved one target per officer.

Each target was analyzed to determine how close each bullet hole was to a major "cardiovascular structure" stenciled on the reverse.

If I recall correctly, for conventional JHP bullets, the bullet's expanded diameter, as tested in ordnance gelatin, was used to determine if the hit would have damaged the structure. The expanded diameter was adjusted to determine its "effective diameter," which is about 60-70 percent of its expanded diameter.

For Black Talon bullets the bullet's expanded diameter, as tested in ordnance gelatin, was used to determine wounding effectiveness. The expanded diameter WAS NOT adjusted because the expanded diameter of the bullet's talon petals is the effective diameter of the bullet.

After all measurements were made, and data compared, I believe we determined Black Talon was about 5-7 percent more effective in its ability to cut open major vascular structures, to produce rapid hemorrhage, than conventional JHP bullets.

In consulting with Dr. Fackler, I believe he specified the bullet's effective diameter should overlap large blood vessels by 0.200" to ensure the bullet produced a tangential wound and not merely graze the vessel without breaching the vessel wall. This factor was also used to determine our findings.