[DonP]

A guy a town over from me in Lockport, Illinois was on the local news last night.

Good News:
It seems he was remodeling his older home and tore out a plaster wall and found a brand new 1928 Thompson, complete with Cutts compensator, original bill of sale from 1940, a couple of stick magazines and a few boxes of .45 ACP behind the plaster.

Absolutely perfect shape, great bluing and untouched walnut stocks. The TV picture alone made me drool.

Bad News:
He called the Lockport police who "took the gun from him and it will probably not be returned" according to the newsie type on the report.

I'm betting it finds its way into either the Lockport Police Chiefs closet at home or to one of the gun auction sites. My hunch is that the $15,000 plus it probably fetches will not find its way back to the finder.

I told my wife that if that was our home that report would have never been on TV. It's enough to make me want to start tearing out walls if my house wasn't new. Dang!

[Henry Bowman]

What a shame!!!! :(

[hayseed]

:banghead:

WHAT A DORK!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:barf:

I'm ok now. :o

[PMDW]

My hunch is that the $15,000 plus it probably fetches will not find its way back to the finder.

Unless he's got the registration papers, it's worth about $.10

Scrap metal.

[Bear Gulch]

Yeah, but talk about the HD properties of a Chicago Typewriter!

[mbs357]

Wow.
If I were that man I'd be crying.
But then if I were him no one would ever know about it. >_>

[Bear Gulch]

I second the motion.

Giving us a new 3s's Spackle, shut up and smile!

[mbs357]

I just realised that my house is at least 70 or so years old...
hrm.

[Third_Rail]

It's not worth 10 years in jail to me... I would've done the same, except probably kept the reciept, ammo, and mags. Possibly any parts, too. Just turn in the receiver itself, the contraband part.

[jefnvk]

found a brand new 1928 Thompson, complete with Cutts compensator, original bill of sale from 1940, a couple of stick magazines and a few boxes of .45 ACP behind the plaster.

If it were bought new in 1940, it should be registered. Whats the legality of transfering something like that to you?

Nedless to say, if it were me, it would be packed away back into the wall, waiting for the registration to reopen.

[sturmruger]

There has to be a way for this guy to register his machine gun. If I were him I would have called the ATF instead of the local police. I also would have asked for a receipt when they took the gun away.

[DRZinn]

Why in hell would you call the cops? Or anyone? You have a right to own it, so shut up and keep it around.

[mbs357]

Wait, was the gun made in 1928 or was it a model 1928?
(Not too familiar with Thompsons)
I figure if it was made in 1928 and sold in 1940 it wouldn't be in all that great of a condition, though.

[Bear Gulch]

1928 is the model. It has a higher rate of fire than the later models. I'd have put it back and done the ap for a class III.

[anapex]

Thompson? What Thompson? *cough*

[PMDW]

There has to be a way for this guy to register his machine gun.

Nope. No way. That gun is heading for the furnace as we speak.

[mbs357]

Thanks for the info.
Man.
Imagining something like that being melted down breaks my heart. =(

[2nd Amendment]

No sympathy at all. If he's dumb enough to call the Illinois PD he's entirely too dumb to own a Tommy. Yeesh, wadda maroon.

[Delmar]

PMDW, or anyone in the know. Why would this person NOT be able to register the weapon? A good point made-the weapon had, or at least we hope it had been NFA registered once upon a time to someone.

The weapon was made before the 1986 ban. Does the original owner have to be alive in order to make the transfer?

What, besides gun grabbing judges, DA's and the state government would cause this weapon to be consigned to the furnace?

I'm busy lookin for my drywall knife :D

[Tory]

"What, besides gun grabbing judges, DA's and the state government would cause this weapon to be consigned to the furnace?"

The fact that the NFA/Class III roster is CLOSED and has been for years. In short, if it was not registered by the deadline, it cannot be registered. Period. :eek:

[HighVelocity]

I would love to hear who lived in the house in the past. A famous gangster or business tycoon or?

[Joejojoba111]

Hate to break it to you, but sorry - you've been brainwashed.

Thompson SMGs were manufactured and sold legally throughout America. That's right, the America your dad and grand-dad grew up in - not some war torn third world nation. That's right, Americans used to be allowed to own these weapons, now they're not. Neat trick no?

There is a book about the Thompson in the library,

Title: The gun that made the Twenties roar, / by William J. Helmer
Main Author: Helmer, William J.
Publisher: New York : Macmillan, 1969
Subject(s): Thompson submachine gun

Location: Main Collection
Call Number: UF 620 T56 H4 1969
Number of Items: 1
Status: Item is available


In it you can see actualy advertisements. The marketing guys back then had trouble figuring out their target market, so the advertisements showed farmers (target demographic) fending off bands of bandits.

AND THIS WAS ALL LEGAL. If you were to travel back in time and tell them all the restrictions on firearms ownership in your time they would be appalled.


Just and FYI. You've been brainwashed into thinking certain firearms are equivalent to evil itself. Unless the police use it, then it's a weapon of virtue and truth and goodness.

[Risasi]

As 2nd Amendment said, too stupid to own it.

But if he was a true gun lover he should have put the wall work on hold until he found out what happens with the 1986 ban.

At the very least he should have stripped everything off of the receiver and given just the receiver to the cops...

Me I never was too particular for the Thompson anyway. Ergonomics are lousy. MP5, yeah baby. Rock and Roll and 3-rd burst. Then again I think I would still rather have a full auto Glock, Steyr TMP, or AR pistol with 3-rd burst and push sling, in 5.45x39 no less.

[Joejojoba111]

Hey Thompson was almost 100 years early with the forward pistol grip. Today no M4gery is complete without one.

[deezulsmoke]

What a dumb ash.

Deez.

[Standing Wolf]

There has to be a way for this guy to register his machine gun.

If he bought the house, he's the owner of the Thompson. Assuming he can qualify to own it, he ought to be able to pay the $200 tax and keep it—assuming subjects of the People's Republic of Illinois can own fully automatic firearms, that is.

[beerslurpy]

That makes me want to cry.

The thompson SMG is one of the nicest guns out there NFA or not. They were all milled guns with wood furniture, which is why they were so expensive (and still are for semi-auto replicas).

I would probably have just put the gun back in the wall or in the attic somewhere. Even if it wasnt illegal, that is a rare and valuable antique. It would be like me finding a big block while searching under the workbench in my garage.

I really wish there was some way to make the all the ????ty gun control go away. Its all the socialists' fault.

[Bear Gulch]

Wolf, I doubt that PRI would let him get a class III permit. It truly is a shame. At least let him send it to the factory to be in their display or some other place where it would be honored.

[beerslurpy]

assuming subjects of the People's Republic of Illinois can own fully automatic firearms
Not if this is the same Illinois that has an assault weapon ban not to mention various local handgun and semiauto bans.

I cant even mail my sporterized saiga to my brother for him to help me develop drum mags for it.

[ctdonath]

:fire: Because the NFA MG registry is closed. THERE IS NO REGISTERING THIS GUN. Period. End of story. It goes to the cops, the cops hand it over to the BATF, the BATF either adds it to their impressive yet secret museum or cuts the receiver in half and scraps it. :(

:cuss: HELLO, GUYS! What was obtained as a perfectly legal, moderately inexpensive, Constitutionally protected weapon is now contraband junk. Any attempt to keep it (instead of handing it over for destruction) places the owner at risk of 10 years in prison. Don't some of you guys understand what the law says, and how it has morphed from freedom to tyrrany??? A gun hidden for the "when do we dig them up" day was prematurely found, and the tyrants du jour made sure it was eliminated; whoever put it there is spinning in his grave. :banghead:

[Byron Quick]

Just and FYI. You've been brainwashed into thinking certain firearms are equivalent to evil itself. Unless the police use it, then it's a weapon of virtue and truth and goodness.

Well, no, I haven't. I'll take my selective fire Uzi to the range in a few days:D

In a few weeks, I'll take possession of my Gem-Tech can and put it on a couple of AR-15's.

However, and it's no brainwashing...under current federal law as well as federal court rulings possession of an unregistered NFA weapon, while not evil, is more trouble than I really wish to endure.

One question that I have not seen addressed: if the weapon is, in fact, already on the registry...is there any way that the discoverer could take legal posession?

Personally, if I had found it...I'd be trying to figure out some way to hide it in the house again...in such a fashion that it would appear to have never been discovered by me.

I've always read about the lack of ergonomics of the Thompson as well as uncontrollable muzzle climb. I shot one last summer. I didin't find it to be lacking in controllability or lacking in ergonomics. I was impressed, especially in light of all the bad press. Shot a H&K MP5 a few weeks ago. It was nice but I didn't experience what causes people to go to nirvana over the weapon. Between the two, I'd rather have both but if forced to choose...I'd take a Thompson. The MP5 was dead on but I can shoot three shot bursts just as accurately with my Uzi. Judging by firing a couple of hundred rounds through the Thompson, I don't think it would be far behind in the hands of an experienced user.

[Bear Gulch]

I don't think that we are brain washed. I just am saddened over the senseless destruction of a piece of history.

[ceetee]

If it had been originally sold in 1940,wouldn't it have already been registered? The $200 tax would've been collected, that's for sure.

This may be a dumb question, but shouldn't there be a way to transfer a registered NFA firearm over to a person, even if the original owner has passed on...?

For instance, my buddy found a small boat that had been left on a bank. The motor had been removed, but the rest was in good shape. He watched it for a week, and when nobody reclaimed it, he took it home. He had to trace the owner through the registration number, and make a valid effort to contact him (registered letter, I believe). The guy received the letter, but never answered it. Thirty days later, my buddy had a judge sign an order declaring him to be the boat's new owner.

[Joejojoba111]

That's awesome, congrats!

Still it's important to remember fully-automatic weapons With pistol grips With high capacity magazines WERE completely legal, because there was no Constitutional way to make them illegal. Thompsons were advertised farming magazines, combines, swathers, and Tommy guns.

[Risasi]

Hi Byron,

I suppose the Thompson could be used quite well by an experienced hand. Plus it would share the ammo of the robust .45 if you carry a 1911. Which is my handgun of preference. I however didn't get the feel that makes me go all tingly with delight. Nor did I really get that with the MP5 either. Maybe it was just easier to pick up an MP5 since I own some HK's and a Cetme already. And I'm left-handed. After you fire full auto for awhile it's no big deal. Or maybe it's just that it isn't my cup of tea.

[Harry Tuttle]

all machine guns had to be registered for the 1986 NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m

(M6) What is the status of an unregistered NFA firearm acquired through seizure or abandonment by a state? [Back]

When NFA firearms are desired for official use, they must be registered by filing ATF Form 10 with the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch, Washington, DC 20226. Since approval is conditioned on an "official use only" basis, subsequent transfers on ATF Form 5 cannot be approved except to a government agency for official use. [27 CFR 179.104]


(M7) May a private citizen who owns an NFA firearm which is not registered have the firearm registered? [Back]

No. An unregistered NFA firearm is a contraband firearm and it is unlawful to possess the weapon. The possessor should contact the nearest ATF office to arrange for its disposition. [26 U. S. C. 5861( d)]


(M8) What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him? [Back]

Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself. [49 U. S. C. 781-788, 26 U. S. C. 5861, 26 U. S. C. 5872]


(M9) What should a person do if he or she comes into possession of an unregistered NFA firearm? [Back]

Contact the nearest ATF office immediately.

[Gordon Fink]

A gun hidden for the “when do we dig them up” day was prematurely found.…

Yes, I would bet it was hidden precisely to avoid NFA registration.

~G. Fink

[DonP]

It doesn't matter whether it was registered before or when it was purchased or if anybody ever payed the $200. No select fire weapons in this state, period!

Here in Illinois our political overlords don't trust us with class III weapons under any circumstances.

So, sadly, the only way the guy could have kept it was to quietly wall it back up or take his chances on winding up in "Club Fed".

[WilderBill]

The only truly good news I can see is that for every 'good citizen' that turns in a find like that, there must be at least 2 or 3 that find some other course of action.
We just don't ever hear about it, because the whole point of their actions would be to not let anyone hear about it. :neener:

[1911JMB]

When I was in high school, which was recently, if you knew the right people you could get most any drug or gun you could think of. As I recall I turned down the following offers for unregistered NFA guns: various Mac's and Uzi's for $800 each, several suppressed .22 pistols for $600 or so each, an m249 which I never got a price quote for, sawed off 870's for $350, mp5k's of god knows what origin for $2,500 and the most interesting one, an unregistered 1928 Thompson with two 50 round drums for $2,000. I am not interested in going to prison, so I declined all of these offers, but my point is that there are plenty of unregistered machine guns out there, and if you want one that badly, they are easy to get. It may seem like Thompsons are old and out of style with the black market, but from what I have seen, many people in the drug community have TSMG's for novelty reasons.

[Lobotomy Boy]

Dang, 1911JMB, I'm glad I didn't go to your school.

[Orthonym]

because he had a Thompson, a 1911, and (I think) a Garand issued to him when working for Curtis LeMay on Saipan. He said that he never fired a shot from those, or any other weapon, during the entirety of the Second World War. Many times I have asked him, "Dad, did it not occur to you, to report that Tommy lost, and ship it home in pieces?"

His answers were always unsat, to me, at least. I love my Daddy, but I do think he trusts Authority a bit too much.

[Blackburn]

Maybe he's honest and you aren't?

[PMDW]

When I was in high school, which was recently, if you knew the right people you could get most any drug or gun you could think of. As I recall I turned down the following offers for unregistered NFA guns: various Mac's and Uzi's for $800 each, several suppressed .22 pistols for $600 or so each, an m249 which I never got a price quote for, sawed off 870's for $350, mp5k's of god knows what origin for $2,500 and the most interesting one, an unregistered 1928 Thompson with two 50 round drums for $2,000. I am not interested in going to prison, so I declined all of these offers, but my point is that there are plenty of unregistered machine guns out there, and if you want one that badly, they are easy to get. It may seem like Thompsons are old and out of style with the black market, but from what I have seen, many people in the drug community have TSMG's for novelty reasons.

I had the same thing happen to me. It all turned out to be kids making stuff up to sound cool.

[zahc]

When I was in high school, which was recently, if you knew the right people you could get most any drug or gun you could think of. As I recall I turned down the following offers for unregistered NFA guns: various Mac's and Uzi's for $800 each,

It's still like that, I know for a fact, having witnessed it myself, that illegal machine guns are out there and available, to me. Not kids making stuff up.

On topic, this thread ruined my night. I weep and wring my hands at the atrocity.

[c_yeager]

If it was purchased legally in 1940 then it should already be in the NFA registry. Someone must have wanted it a LOT as the $200 tax would have been quite a bit more than the cost of the gun. The ATF SHOULD be able to simply look the gun up in the registry and find the next of Kin of the original owner and allow them to register the weapon, as if it were inherited in an estate. Unfortunatly the finder doesnt have a lot of claim to it, since it was never transferred to him.

[Nightfall]

Damn, what a waste of a fine firearm. Must... resist... urge to... tear up... walls... :banghead: (and keep my fool mouth shut if I do find something juicy)

[only1asterisk]

Any claim a previous owner or heir had to the guns was lost when the house was sold. Assuming they were civilian guns and properly registered an equitable solution would be for the heir to claim them and transfer one to the new owner of the house. Without the cooperation of the other, both are screwed.


David Harris