[Risasi]

Well a couple weeks ago I was passing through the outlying town that stands in the great shadow of the Metropolis I don't call home. But still reside and work there anyway.

I picked up an upper in Beowulf. I finally got it to the range on Saturday, and all I can say is:



HOLY CRAP!!!

I want to make sure I emphasize the HOLY and the CRAP...

This thing kicks like a Missouri mule. And no, you MO residents, that is not a compliment.

I ended up getting nine shots off before the bolt locked up on me. But that was enough for the weekend. My shoulder still hurts, and I think I cracked my bad collarbone again. Hurt to do pushups and dands today. I think I've become a pansy...

Anyway I got it home and kicked the bolt open. As George Hill would say, "AR's suck". And yes, I agree with his general statement. Too complex to be used as a SHTF/knock around/beater gun. I was a bit suprised that it locked so quick. This was on my CAR-4 RRA lower and I never have a jam under 1800 or so rounds with 5.56 FMJ. Mileage varies on HP or SP.
Yeah, yeah, don't start. I know, "...they'll always go bang IF YOU CLEAN THEM...". Well it was clean, but still jammed. Although there was this weird plastic smell, maybe I didn't clean well enough? I expect the upper just needs wearing in a bit. Either way that sucker has some punch. It hurts man. These things kick more than a Saiga 12 loaded with 3" magnum Super X's. And that's a 1.25oz lead slug travelling 1700fps.

I never did get it sighted in, even at fifty feet. I got just enough shots off to know it's firing 8" right of center at 50ft.

The first thing I'll add is a different stock. Something that will suck up some of that recoil. And then I'll be looking into threading the barrel so I can put on a muzzle break/flash hider, and sometime I think I'll look into building a suppressor for it.

Anyway bittersweet weekend, but I think I'll like the Beowulf. And I will be reloading this shells, so I plan to load a milder slug for these things. So that will make it cheaper to shoot than my Weatherby in 30-378.

That did get me thinking though. Has anyone tried loaded a saboted slug in this system? To try for longer ranges?

[Kamicosmos]

Mmmmm Beowulf upper.


Mmmmmm.

[Bullet]

Risasi

I also got a 50 Beowulf a couple of days ago. Went to shoot it yesterday and today. My bolt locked after a few shots too. I managed to get it open for a couple more shots. Then it locked again. I hope this means it’s just tight and will break in. I was loading 300 gr Gold Dots. What bullet weight were you shooting? I didn’t think recoil was that bad. My lower is a RRA and I had a buttstock weight in it. Seemed to kick alot less than my 44 Mag Marlin lever gun. 300gr bullets are the lightest listed and maybe this is why it didn’t seem to kick much (plus the stock weight) and my load. I wasn’t sure about the loading data from Alexander Arms since it doesn’t say if the listed loads are starting loads or Max loads. I e-mail Alexander Arms about this. I reduced the load data by about ½ gr. encase the listed data was Max. I’m using H4227 powder and will call Hodgdon tomorrow to see if they have any (or more complete) data for this load. Please give us update after you shoot again.

[Risasi]

Hi Bullet,

I was shooting 334 grain slugs, hollow points. They're packaged by Alexander Arms. I'm sure they have them listed on their website, as far as ballistics data.

As far as kick. Like I said mine is a CAR-4, standard A2 stock. The kick wasn't really that bad. I'm 5'6" and about 175 now. But the kick was sharp though. And about 14 years ago I broke my left collarbone and never got it set properly. (Didn't know I busted it until the next day). And I cracked it again several months back. So I guess this means I'm getting pretty weenie, or I'm just a whiner and need to cowboy up. :D

Anyway I'll let you know next time I shoot. Though it may be awhile. Work has been hectic. Even on weekends. So it may be several weeks.

[Mulliga]

Too complex to be used as a SHTF/knock around/beater gun. I was a bit suprised that it locked so quick. This was on my CAR-4 RRA lower and I never have a jam under 1800 or so rounds with 5.56 FMJ. Mileage varies on HP or SP.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

This is an aftermarket conversion, not tested or used officially by any member of the U.S. military - of course the reliability isn't going to be there.

It's a compliment to the design that something like this can even be done with a stock lower half. How many caliber conversions are available for the AK?

[hksw]

..."AR's suck". And yes, I agree with his general statement. Too complex to be used as a SHTF/knock around/beater gun. I was a bit suprised that it locked so quick. This was on my CAR-4 RRA lower and I never have a jam under 1800 or so rounds with 5.56 FMJ. Mileage varies on HP or SP.

IMO, I think this is a bit of a stretch. To say the system 'sucks' when clearly, by your admission, that it had worked perfectly under normal conditions using ammo it was designed around and then fails when using a wildcat round has no logic. I don't love or hate the AR system, it is what it is and it has worked fine for me.

[Don Gwinn]

Interesting. The guy from Alexander Arms compared the Beowulf's recoil to a 20-guage semi-auto shotgun.

Maybe he meant 20 millimeters.

[rwc]

How does it compare to a .45-70?

[Bullet]

QUOTE “How does it compare to a .45-70?�

This should give you a comparison. -


http://www.alexanderarms.com/website/id5.html


http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/4570gov.php

[beerslurpy]

These things kick more than a Saiga 12 loaded with 3" magnum Super X's.

HOLY CRAP.

I fired off maybe 20-30 rounds of buckshot when I first got my saiga and my whole shoulder was bruised up afterwards. I would even say the 12 gauge kicks worse than most 50 cal guns (12 gauge has no muzzle brake).

[Risasi]

IMO, I think this is a bit of a stretch. To say the system 'sucks' when clearly, by your admission, that it had worked perfectly under normal conditions using ammo it was designed around and then fails when using a wildcat round has no logic. I don't love or hate the AR system, it is what it is and it has worked fine for me.


I think you misunderstood me guys. I didn't mean the gun sucks with the new upper. I mean Eugene Stoner's system sucks. And I said too complex. I also noted jams on the 5.56 upper. I've had pretty close to 2000 rounds without a jam. But likewise I've also experienced jams within a few hundred rounds. So I wouldn't say it worked "perfectly". And yeah, yeah. Don't start in on the "if it's clean" business. Or the "well I've never" stuff. I don't care to argue about it. It's just part of the rifle design in my experience. It's just important to know how to clear jams, and to know your rifle. That's all. Regardless I would not want to depend upon Stoner's design in a combat situation. This is why I got my Dad the Ar180B, which has been more reliable, and accuracy wise was out shooting my RRA, and right there with my Bushmaster.

As for the modularity of the system, yes it's nice. And the ergonomics are tops. But in a combat situation I would take the AK design. Always goes bang. While not quite the potential for accuracy as the potential in the AR design, there are some pretty accurate AK's out there.

Besides for the price I paid on just this one upper I could buy two Saiga 16" in varying calibers.

Don't get so defensive you guys, I already own AR's. Sheesh, you'd think I had stepped on your manhood or something... :D

[Bullet]

Risasi

Shot my 50 Beowulf again. Alexander Arms said their listed loads are Max loads. Hodgdon didn’t have any loading data. Shooting 300gr Gold Dots with H4227 didn’t work very well for me. Lots of unburned powder so I tried 350gr Hornady XTP/JHP’s with 35.4gr of Hodgdon Lil’ Gun. This powder is faster than H4227 and with heavier bullets. I came home with a bruised shoulder. Seemed like MORE RECOIL this time. My bolt didn’t lock closed anymore maybe it just needed shot a little. The lips on my mag seemed to be open a little too much so I closed them a little. I was having trouble with feeding. I wonder if the stock weight might make the bolt cycle a little to fast. Next time I’ll try to shoot some without the weight (probably more recoil).

Quote - “HOLY CRAP!!!

I want to make sure I emphasize the HOLY and the CRAP...

This thing kicks like a Missouri mule. And no, you MO residents, that is not a compliment.�


Every time I shoot my 50 Beowulf I’m getting more recoil so maybe your statement isn’t to far off. Next time I shoot I’ll let you know how it went.

[Onmilo]

When you guys say "the bolt locked up." the question that comes to my mind is did you grease the lugs and locking area?
Beowolf like the M1 and M14 benefits from the application of grease, plain old CLP isn't going to do the job.

[Bullet]

Onmilo

I wondered about using grease on the lugs too. The first time I didn’t use any. The second time I did but there was a lot of unburned powder too (bolt still locked). The third time I just used CLP and a different powder seemed to work but I only shot 10 rounds. Thanks for the info about grease I will make sure to use it.

[grendelbane]

My friend and I both bought Beowulf uppers one day. Both have been 100% reliable. (Knock on wood).

I don't think that the recoil is that bad. It is indeed somewhat like the recoil of my 20gauge Saiga.

I really should add that mine is reliable only with magazines it likes. There are some mags which simply won't work with this cartridge. Fortunately, they are easy to detect, they either work, or don't, not any in between.

[rwc]

How about a limbsaver pad and a separate shoulder pad under a thick coat? Works for me for a long session of .308 through a light rifle.

[Jordan]

If you've been perusing AA's website lately you'll notice that they now offer a muzzle break. They claim 50% reduction in felt recoil... sounds like it glues on using some space age epoxy... a DIY thing I figure. I ordered one a few days ago.. so I'll let you know how it works soon.

I didn't find the recoil at all objectionable and that's with a colapsible stock.. my inexperienced (to shooting) GF tried it too and her only feedback was a big smile.

I've been visited by the bolt lock-up fairy too :( Like you said.. maybe break-in... cause it certainly was clean. And I'll try the grease on the lugs.

I'm getting unburned powder with 334gr and H4227... what would be indicated? Step up bullet wieght? Drop powder charge? I'm somewhat new to reloading.

[mrhuckins]

After putting thousands of AR rounds downrange in the military, all I can say is...What a piece of junk. I woudln't trust my life to one, when there are so many options out there for weapons that are actually reliable. If there is one thing you can count on an AR for, thats lockups and jams. POS!!!

[Bullet]

Jordan

The only time I've had the bolt lock was when using H4227 and only with 300gr bullets. I talked to Bill Alexander and he asked me what kind of scale I was using. I told him I was using a electronic scale. He said he recommends a balance beam scale because the electronic scale could be off. I purchased a new beam scale and it agreed with my old beam scale, my electronic scale was off 4grs. So I have been loading 4grs less than what I should have been. Even then when I used H4227 with 350gr bullets the bolt didn't lock but there was some unburned powder (not as much as with 300gr bullets). I loaded some 300 gr bullets with H4227 at the right powder weight and will try them again. Maybe this time they will work. I believe the bolt locking is because of the unburned powder. I thought Alexander Arms load for 335gr bullets called for Lil' Gun powder. I've used Lil' Gun for other bullets and the bolt never locked (even when I was loading 4grs less than the recommended load) no unburned powder either. The manuel that came with your upper I believe recommends using CLP for the bolt and lugs not grease. I would go by the manuel for this. After I shoot my 300gr bullets with H4227 I will let you know if they work. Do a search for Beowulf there are some more threads.

[Risasi]

Hi all,

I didn't forget about this thread. I've just been tied up on the weekends, so I haven't made it back to the range.

I did however pickup a limbsaver, I poked a small hole for the sling hardware, and carefully slipped it on. Looks decent. Feels like it should drop felt recoil quite a bit. Now I can baby my wussy broken shoulder.

Jordan, I wouldn't recommend shooting a 50 with a collapsable stock. I know a guy who had one that failed on him. He ended up getting six stitches, between his eyebrow and tear duct.

Also I am skipping the muzzlebreak because I will likely thread the barrel and put a supressor on it eventually.

Mr. Huckins,

I do not necessarily disagree with you. Though my RRA upper has been very reliable. I've shot well over a thousand rounds without any hiccups, many times over, the AR design by it's very nature is flawed.

Are they fun toys? Yes. Would I count on one in a state of emergency? Probably not. I would be much more confident grabbing one of my other guns. Just because I have others that I know always go bang. I don't know, it just depends. If it's an urban setting I would be much more likely to use an AR, especially this 50 Beo, or some heavier SP .223 ammo. If I can get it reliable. If I'm headed for the sticks it'll likely be a short barreled military bolt action, like a Mosin or SMLE Jungle Carbine, if I'm packing light. If I want to carry heavy it will be my M1A.

If I'm packing really, really light and trying to avoid battle it would be one of my 1911's with a .22 kit and suppressors. Good enough for food collection. Quiet, concealable, and in a pinch I can obtain a rifle with a 1911 if I need one.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Before we start wandering down the "Are ARs reliable" road for the umpteenth time, I would point out that there are literally dozens of threads covering that subject that can be revived or read if anyone really wants to have that discussion again.

Otherwise, let's be courteous enough not to stomp on the Beowulf thread and keep the info in it related to the Beowulf.

[Risasi]

Okay, I snuck over to the range this weekend to test the limbsaver.

My buttstock is just standard, not collapsible or shorty, but I do think that I saw a slip on limbsaver for the telescoping stocks if any of you guys are crazy enough to try those.

I fired a total of 25 shots. I had gone to sight the gun in.

Again I had a FTE, I just dropped the mag and kicked the bolt open. This was the third shot I fired that locked it up tighter than a gnat's tushie. But I decided to proceed with my session. No more problems after that.

I fired a total of 25 shots. I've got a little soreness, but nothing to speak of. Although that could also be because I lifted, did several sets of pushups, and a 5k hike with a 50lb pack on. So I'm not sure what activities are to blame.

Anyway the Limbsaver tamed the sharp kick out of the .50 Beowulf. It's about like a 12 gauge. Certainly not as sharp a kick as when I'm firing 3 inch SuperX slugs out of a Mossberg, or Saiga.

I am a bit disappointed in the accuracy of the unit. I was getting 1-2" groups at 25 yards. Also I noticed once it warmed up it started shooting to the right by about six inches. I'm not sure what to make of that. I had the iron sights zeroed . And also had an Osprey red dot set two inches above the irons.

I dunno, time will tell.

[Bullet]

Risasi

I bought one of these - Ace Skeleton Stock with a Pachmayr Light Weight 1" Thick Decelerator Butt Pad with Aluminum Plate

Here is a link –

http://www.ultralite50.com/products.html

Just got it today. Went to try it out and noticed I didn't have the screw that goes into the receiver extension quiet all the way tight so I quit shooting and went home. I only fried 11 rounds but what a difference (no bruise). I think I'm going to really like my Beowulf. Next time maybe I'll be able to shoot more. I think I got my EOTECH sighted in so next time I'll try to shoot some groups.

[Jordan]

risasi: I'd like to ask you about the injury your friend sustained using a colapsible stock. Did he not have the detent pin engaged in it's hole or something?

While obviously the solid stock is going to be stronger it's still hard to imagine a "melt-down" with the colapsing stock.
The high impact plastic would have to shatter... not too likely given what it's impacting, a soft shoulder. Or an approx. 5/16" steel pin would have to shear... not too likely. Or that pin would have to plow, sideways, through approx 5/16" solid aluminum for several inches... not too likely.

Though this analogy isn't the least bit scientific: how hard would you have to butt stroke me in the shoulder (a soft, energy absorbing target) to cause a failure in a colapsing stock? Hard enough to knock me flat on my back and even then I doubt you could break the stock... my Beowulf is not hitting me that hard.. it's an abrupt nudge to be sure.

Finally, aren't they offering colapsing AR stocks that have been modified to fit Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 12 gauge shotguns? I imagine that, from a liability standpoint, this company gave the strength issue some consideration. Seen at Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19976&title=SHOTGUN+AR-15+STOCK+CONVERSION)

[Bullet]

Risasi

Went shooting the other day. A friend of mine was at the range. We both shot my Beowulf off sandbags at 50 yards and the groups were between ½ to ¾ inch when we did our part. Some groups had 3 shots almost in the same hole. I think your Beowulf should shoot better than 1-2” at 25 yards. We probably shot 45 rounds with no point of aim movement after it warmed up. Haven’t had the bolt lock since I quit using H4227.

Jordan

I have read of problems with colapsible stocks on the bigger calibers but some people have them with no complaints.

[Risasi]

Sorry, been busy. I just saw your replies.


Jordan,

I did not see the actual event, nor did I see the effects on said buttstock. I just called him now to find out where it failed. It turns out that the failure was at the pin. He said the stock was old, a two point. The pin itself sheared, but wasn't metal. He thought it was some composite plastic. So that explains things a bit. He said he was sure this is why it failed. And new ones should be fine as long as they have the metal pin.

Sorry, I could see that my previous post would have been misleading. I wish I had known about the pin too. The bozo forgot to tell me that part when he told the story.

--------

Hi Bullet,

Thanks for the range report.
I'm not sure what to make of it. Either I am a real wuss and have developed a
flinch. Or the sights are moving on me. Granted I was firing this standing, and just sort of leaning up against the side of the lane partition. Next time I'll take a bench bag and see what kind of accuracy I can get. I wasn't too worried about the 1-2" groups. I figure this is me. (I'm just used to 1/2" clover leaf groups with my scoped .223 while standing) The thing that bugged me the most was the POI changing 6" to the right after changing mags. I refuse to believe that had anything to do with it. Either it's; 1. The barrel warming up, 2. Both the irons and Osprey changed point of aim, 3. I'm developing a flinch. :D

As for the jam, I got one the last range trip. I got it in the first couple rounds. I kicked it open (much easier to kick open this time), and went on to shoot another twenty rounds give or take. I'm sure it just needs some wear in.
I should have about 80 empty shells, I just need to get the hardware and start reloading.

Out,

Bryan

[cidirkona]

I don't see how these two sentances can be used in the same post:

I think I've become a pansy...

I picked up an upper in Beowulf.

-Colin

[Bullet]

Shot my Beowulf today (16-inch barrel). This time I took my chronograph along. I was shooting 335gr Rainier HP bullets with 37.7gr of Lil’Gun - OAL 2.110. The average velocity was 1,918 fps. This is just about what Alexander Arms lists for this load. Thought I’d post this to show some velocities to compare to what Alexander Arms shows. Their data seems to be right on.

[Jordan]

I installed the muzzle break I got from Alexander Arms. It was about $78 + shipping.

Shipping from AA took suprisingly long. I don't remember just how long but don't expect much there.

Installation was easy if you have even moderate DIY ability. It involved scuffing up the surface of the barrel, degreasing, gluing with some super loctite product, then 4 set screws.

It's a nice tight fit and looks good on the gun... I'm not wild about the set screws.. But what are you gonna' do short of expensive machine work, threading and refinishing the barrel.

What impressed me most was shooting it! AA claims 50% reduction in felt recoil. I don't know how they quantify that.. and I can't say whether or not I agree that it is "50%"... what I CAN say is that it is very nice! I'd say the recoil is close to, or even less than, my HK91 or FAL.

I don't notice that it is really any louder. I also like that it protects the barrel crown.. I carry this rifle around a lot for a bear gun and hanging off a three point sling I was frequently dinging the end of the barrel into rocks and such.

Give it try, gents.. it was money well spent, I think.

[Ohen Cepel]

Guys,
Dragging this post up again after a few months.

What does an upper like this run? Do they all come with a bolt? Muzzle break on them or is that an extra purchase?

Thanks,

[browningguy]

Several of us shot our big bores a couple of weeks ago and my new Beowulf isn't bad at all. I have a DPMS lower with the AA standard upper, no brake, Ace skeleton stock. I used my laser bore sighter the night before to get the red dot close. The first shot was 1" high at 50 yards, then we proceeded to tear up a bunch of milk jugs, zero problems encountered. Was using the factory 325 gr. JHP for most shooting and shot one box of 400 gr. SP's, the 400's have just a little more recoil.

Of course we also had two 458 Lotts and a 550 Magnum to shoot. The 550 is a newish wildcat for those who are really into painfull experiences. They all make the Beowulf feel like a girlyman gun.

Should have mentioned, locally (Houston) the upper with bolt and one AA mag is $599, muzzle brake is extra.

[Jordan]

Ohen: I think they're about $650. That includes EVERYTHING you need less the lower. You will need some kind of sighting system as it comes as a flattop. Regular AR/M16 mags work fine. Alexander Arms website is pretty complete... check it out.
Muzzle break is an extra... but isn't really necessary.

[Erud]

I picked up a Beowulf upper from Midway USA about 6 weeks ago for $591 I think. It was in stock and I got it in 2 days. I put it on top of a Mega Machine Shop "Gator" lower with a DPMS parts kit and Ace Skeleton stock that I had laying around. Topped it off with a Leupold CQ/T scope that also wasn't being used. Took it out and put 35 rounds of the AA 325gr. hollow points(factory load) with no problems other than a nice bruise. Wasn't terribly impressed by accuracy off the bench - 3-5" groups or so(5 shots).
Dropped it off with my favorite gunsmith to thread the barrel and install a brake(his own design - very efficient!). In the meantime, my wife presented me with a JP Enterprises fire control kit for my birthday with 4# springs. I installed that along with an Ergo pistol grip and a sturdier mount for the CQ/T and waited for the call from the 'smith.
After getting the upper back, I went back out and put another 35 rounds down range. 4 of the 7 5-round groups were 2" or better(100 yds) with best being 1 3/8". This was from a sandbag rest on a fairly windy day. I also fired 32 rounds of .308 through my Remington 700P in the same session and had no injuries or soreness to speak of. The brake helps alot and with the other mods I did, this is now a very enjoyable gun to shoot. Can't wait to get it out to my brother's land in the country to try it on ice blocks, water jugs, pumpkins, etc. One caveat is that this gun is EXTREMELY LOUD. It was very loud without the brake, but now it's just outrageous. Definately will get the attention of the other guys on the line.
Bottom line is I really like this gun and am very happy with the form, function, reliability, etc. I hope you guys can get yours working better soon.

Erud :)

[RTFM]

^^^^ Sounds like a nice set up.
Pictures?

[Erud]

Let's see if this works... I have mixed luck posting pics on the various gun boards.

Erud

I included a pic through the CQ/T just for fun... This scope seems to have gotten a bad rap for various reasons, but I have had good luck with mine.

[Erud]

sorry about the size and general crappy quality of the pics - my camera is not the best(nor are my photography skills!).

[Bullet]

I put one of Alexander Arms muzzle brakes on my Beowulf the other day. I’m not sure how much of a reduction in recoil there was but I think it helped some. Still kicks but not as much. I also found out what was the matter with my H4227 powder. It had been recalled by Hodgdon because it wasn’t H4227. No wonder I was getting so much unburned powder. My Beowulf functions perfect now and is fun to shoot.

[browningguy]

Here's mine, I put a riser on the flattop because I couldn't get a good sight picture without it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/beowulfsmall.jpg