Oleg Volk
March 14, 2003, 06:04 PM
Ladies, gentlemen and everyone else,

The bashing of French, however helpful to your feeling of superiority, it not the High Road. We can keep on recycling the same old "cheese-eater" monikers or we can get on with the more pressing issues...and in the act of attending to our domestic problems first, we'll appear to be a little more serious and a smidgen less chauvinist to the forum lurkers.

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Dain Bramage
March 14, 2003, 06:33 PM
Uhhh..I know this is a private board and all, but are we really here for the forum members or for the lurkers? The antis aren't going to like us no matter how nice we are.

I also don't see us banishing political expression on this forum. It is a giant part of the firearms scene today.

I appreciate the whole sentiment of the "High Road". Limiting violent talk, trolling, and vile language are actually liberating actions for a free exchange of ideas on a higher level.

All the "French" stuff was just a healthy release for some pent up political resentment. Sure some of the cheese got piled high, but I don't think most of it crossed any boundaries.

Just some of my own opinion here.

Oleg Volk
March 14, 2003, 06:43 PM
Not worried about hard-core antis, only about fence-sitting lurkers of which we have quite a few (sometimes one per member present). I am not saying that French-bashing is all that evil, only that it makes us look rather less credible and serious than we'd otherwise appear. That, and it is a self-perpetuating stereotype which insures that no French members ever join us.

Look, it was/is fashionable to hate the USSR/China but some folks from there are making TRH a better place. Give the French individuals a chance, no matter what their government might be doing to annoy you. You may be pleasantly surprised at the quality of some people from that country.

Dain Bramage
March 14, 2003, 07:25 PM
Well, I can respect your stand if you think some of the hyperbole reached too high a level. Of course, I think most of the members recognized it as such. The high dander was in response to recent political events, and would have trailed off naturally on its own.

I do want to add a fact about me that even most of my friends don't know. France was the first stop for my family after we emigrated from Yugoslavia. I spent two years as a toddler in Paris, while we waited for a visa to the USA. My mother says I was picking up the language and progressing on my way to being a little frog-eating, America-basher.

Luckily, the visa came through, and we left France in 1968 for the freedom-loving state of New Jersey! I still remember shooting there as a kid when the place was still half-way normal. The escape to a free state is a whole other story.

March 14, 2003, 07:51 PM
Ok Dad, no more Frog jokes. :(

Can we pick on the Germans now? :neener:

March 14, 2003, 07:56 PM
I agree with Oleg, this is not the proper forum to vent your rage. There are other forums for this elsewhere. BTW had some "Freedom Fries" and California wine with dinner tonight. Tasted sooo much better than what I used to eat in the recent past that I gave the cook a 15% tip also.:D

BTW I am !00% German and I give my permission to bash my distant relatives.:D

Steve Smith
March 14, 2003, 08:06 PM
Why am I so dadgum tempted to lock this??!!!



Old Fuff
March 14, 2003, 08:11 PM
Yup, I think Oleg is right. The purpose of this forum is to discuss firearms and issues related to firearms. I have no liking for the current governments of France, Germany, China and Russia - nor anyone who is supporting them - including our own anti-war protesters. But all of this is outside of the core issues that The High Road was established to cover.

March 14, 2003, 09:47 PM
Since they wouldn't let us overfly them into the CENTCOM AOR from RAF Mildenhall during the Persian Gulf war, making my sorties 22+ hours... :fire:

Oleg Volk
March 14, 2003, 09:51 PM

I was unclear in my original comments. Bashing specific government or agency or people for cause is fine and dandy with me. I am only wondering about the recent spate of badmouthing aimed at the French people in general. Just as you and I did not approve of Clinton's policies, I am sure not all French approve of the ways of their government.

March 14, 2003, 09:58 PM
I know where you're coming from. And I'm sure the KC-10 and KC-135 folks enjoyed the extra Air Medal points for refueling us as we went the long way around. They even said as much when they bought us pints of Guiness stout post-mission... ;)

March 14, 2003, 10:11 PM
well shoot Oleg! Since the French see themselves as the cradle of liberty, equality, and fraternity, why don't some of those French folks who disagree with their government speak up?

[note to foreign readers: "well shoot" is an American archaism that translates roughly as "wait a minute here" or "that's rather upsetting". It is in no way intended to indicate either that I want to shoot Oleg, or that I want anyone else to shoot Oleg; ain't dialect wonderful?]

4 eyed six shooter
March 14, 2003, 10:13 PM
I will keep my bashing of the French gun related. Tanks do have guns, right?

Why do the French have rear view mirrors on their tanks?
So they can watch the war!!!!!!!!!!!:barf: :neener:

Oleg Volk
March 14, 2003, 10:14 PM
:D I give up...

March 14, 2003, 10:41 PM
How about this?

I just turned down a huge discount on a purchase of Estee Lauder. $200 worth of this French product for $40. I get this offer a couple times a year through work and usually buy the women in my life large quanities of this "stuff".. They seem to like it but I agree with you Oleg, we need to show seriousness and be non-chauvinist.

Promise not to buy anymore TOTAL gasoline from now on also just to stay in touch with my feelings on a daily basis.

March 14, 2003, 10:43 PM
How about we bash 'French Canadians'. I mean, the're not really 'French' and most of them don't consider themselves true 'Canadians' so who are we offending? This works for me ...

March 14, 2003, 10:46 PM
don't consider Quebec to be part of Canada! :D

March 14, 2003, 11:01 PM
Oleg's right that the wholesale bashing of French culture, military history :scrutiny: , and the French people is no more appropriate than the French officer that picked an American service person at random to bash as if she were all Americans - reckless, immature, pouty, dangerous children. If not racist in tone it is certainly statist and a pathetic sort of demonization of an entire culture over the disagreement between two govenments over state policy.


March 14, 2003, 11:03 PM
Those French Canadians might be small but they have a huge temper. :what:

March 14, 2003, 11:17 PM
And they bring their families down here and swim in the ocean while we're still wearing long underwear and parkas.


March 15, 2003, 03:00 AM
I give up...

Oleg...are you French??:neener:


March 15, 2003, 07:01 AM
Why is the French jet fighter(:barf: ) called the Mirage ?: The closer they fly to combat, the more they seem to fade away.:D

March 15, 2003, 07:18 AM
For Ahadams:

For the sake of literary precision.

There is a comma between well and shoot.

As in, "Well, shoot!"

Let's get serious about the serious stuff.

March 15, 2003, 08:29 AM
they gave us some place to squash the Germans without blowing up our own stuff

and, all the old military rifles from the US, England, Russia, and Eastern Bloc countries are usually all beat up and worn out

I saw 3 French MAS rifles in unfired condition at a gun store 2 days ago. Even the store owner commented about "how nice the condition is".....

I suspect the French will get theirs pretty soon. Do you wonder why the US is letting reporters go in with front line troops?? Our Prez wants objective, unbiased witnesses to all the crap that's going to be found. Chemicals, bio stuff, and the infamous nuclear reactor. All the banned weapons the UN "can't find", but they'll have French and German labels.

Note that Arab reporters will be right along with Western ones. The only reason the French and Germans resist so much is they have "too much stink on 'em".

I heard an Iranian refugee on radio the other day. His father and some other family is still in Iran. He said when Iraq falls, Iran should be days away from total revolt

We'll send some SF guys into Iran to do "strategic" operations and the rest should take care of itself.

El Tejon
March 15, 2003, 09:15 AM
How can we "bash" a nation that produces such great wine and food?

The French have an enormouse welfare state to support. They need the Benjamins that Iraqi oil produces for them. The French have longed for influence in the Mideast for centuries but got pushed around and beat up mostly by the Ingerish. They thought they had an opening in Iraq and then the Americans come back in snorting and stomping. Tre unlucky.

March 15, 2003, 09:27 AM
Their WILL be a heavy diplomatic & economic price to pay for the AMERICAN-bashing going on by the French. They have lived for decades with the delusion that they are somehow a significant voice in the affairs that extend outside their borders. It's not just their government, its a majority of the French people, if their polls are to be believed. I have no problem with any person or country voting THEIR best interests, most governments do and have done so in the past. But it is foolhardy for a "responsible" national political leader to let his personal feelings and ambitions govern his actions as "Sheroc" has been doing. Since WW2, France has been a 2nd rate world power BY CHOICE! A Big Mouth does not make a big man or conceal the decline of a country. Has the US been slapped in the face? Yep but we WILL learn from our mistakes. You can expect us to rely much less on NATO, The UN and other "Allies" in the future. Expect increased defense spending and an even more powerful military. I would have it no other way! The French, the UN, and NATO have done us a service, they have pointed out a weakness we (the US) have. We will correct this "weakness" in short order, its nothing that our enormous economy can't handle with ease. There is no other country (or the EU) on the face of the planet that has the will and means to match us. We learned from the Vietnam experience and we will learn from this. "That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger", I don't think we will make the same mistake twice.

How come no flag waving icons are available?

March 15, 2003, 09:38 AM
I agree, in principle, with most of what's already been posted.

I try to remember that 'governments' do not always follow the will of the majority, and that polls expressing the 'majority will' are not always true indications of the 'majority' opinion. (How many times have we 'nuked' a poll?)

I think Oleg has a point. The jokes are funny, really. And it's frustrating to see long-term 'allies' take a stance in opposition. But we've pretty much flogged that dog, until some new behavior becomes manifest.

March 15, 2003, 05:28 PM
Ladies, gentlemen and everyone else,

The bashing of French, however helpful to your feeling of superiority, it not the High Road. We can keep on recycling the same old "cheese-eater" monikers or we can get on with the more pressing issues...and in the act of attending to our domestic problems first, we'll appear to be a little more serious and a smidgen less chauvinist to the forum lurkers.

Oleg Volk

Horse poop!
It isn't bashing if it is true and it is true!
Now go wet someone else's bed.

March 15, 2003, 06:28 PM

Oleg, you know me, I would always take the high road, no matter what. But I just can't resist, dude!

Oleg Volk
March 15, 2003, 07:43 PM

The display of civility in your reply is splendid. If this is how you treat your allies, then your enemies must shake in their boots knowing you'd be even harsher on them.


March 15, 2003, 11:13 PM
you said:
"Horse poop!
It isn't bashing if it is true and it is true!
Now go wet someone else's bed."

It's called beating a dead horse and to lump the French people in general as fair game to derogatory statements because of the actions and stance of their government IS bashing. Speaking of bedwetting, you may just want to look up the history of the High Road and see who’s house you just took a whiz in.

My mom is French, seeing a post about boycotting the “Frogs” is not pleasant. If one would care to discuss the socio-economic/political reasons as to why the French haven’t done squat in the last thirty years to help us and in fact have hindered us, I’m all for it. But to call a people names due to their nationality… Weak, at best. High Road material? Doubtful. My Mom’s name is Pauline. Anyone here like to slam her for being French? A word to the wise, that’s a rhetorical question. Shall we go through the derogatory names of all the various peoples around the globe until we hit your nationality? Upgrade time people. Discuss the issues.

Bottom Gun
March 16, 2003, 02:19 AM
I agree with Telewinz. The UN, with the help of the French and the Germans, has demonstrated the organization is not always acting in our best interests. Maybe this will show some of our liberal politicians that we need to take care of our own business rather than relying upon our "allies".

I see this as a step backward for the global economy and the One World government.

I'd sure like to see the US pull the troops out of Europe and some of the other ingrate foreign countries and bring the troops home so they can help keep our borders secure.

March 16, 2003, 03:09 AM
Am I too late for the bashing?? ;)

I like many things French, but politics isn't one of them. Napa is starting to make somee nice sparkling wines. :D

Gary H
March 16, 2003, 03:30 AM
Another couple of weeks and most of us will forget the French. This problem will sort itself out.

March 16, 2003, 08:30 AM
It's called beating a dead horse

Hanging around with bureaucrats for the last 16 years, I've learned there's no such thing as beating a dead horse. It's just being tenderized for the eventual barbeque.

March 16, 2003, 01:21 PM
Ha! It’s eating a dead horse! The mere mention of barbeque, horses and the French is enough to send maitre d’s scurrying to set up additional tables! I don’t know if it’s still common practice over there but they used to be one of the largest consumers of horsemeat. Rather eat them than ride ‘em. (Hmm… don’t go there :rolleyes: )

Do we need the UN or is it the other way around? I believe we need to send them all packing over to Switzerland or another country of their choice.

March 16, 2003, 02:09 PM
Aw, and I thought it was gonna be a poster of a french soldier in uniform holding an accordion or something!:D

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