[hcker2000]

Alright I got my sks (I get to shoot it agine today :neener: ). Now what would be the best buy for geting realy tight groupings. I'v seen several posts that the Mosin Nagat is a good shot. I mention the Mosin because they can be picked up for realy cheap. If there is some thing better that runs around that price let me know.

[longhorngunman]

Cheap tackdriver? Forget the Mosin and spend twenty more bucks and get you a swiss K31. Mine is more accurate than I am, and I am seriously thinking about putting a scope on it that is three times the value of the gun. These rifles all have shiny bores and a straight pull bolt. The engineering and detail is impressive for a rifle thats around a hundred bucks. The buttstocks are usually beat to hell though. Ammo is relatively scarce, I can get a brick of swiss cheese( 60 rounds) for around $25 bucks and it has been called match grade ammo. Not knocking the mosin my father has one its a nice gun just not as nice as the swiss. Finnish Mosins are supposed to have great accuracy too but will cost more.

[hcker2000]

Thanks for the info. Whats the swiss cartrige size? Are there companys that make the ammo for the K31 or do you have to buy surplus? I don't mind it costing more per shot to shoot than my sks as this gun will be used for more hard core target practis than the sks.

[Navy joe]

I sold my Mosin and bought three K-31s. The Mosin M-44 was fun, but no tackdriver. The 7.5x55 swiss uses .308 bullets, easy to reload.

[noonanda]

If you want a cheap tackdriver, The Mosin does have the potential especially the Finnish M-39's. But the swiss rifles are also know for their accuracy.

A mosin with a scout scope on it can/will shoot good depending on the bore condition. I have an M-38 Carbine with a scout scope that is a sweet shooter. She only gets fed handloads with .308 sized bullets. So the potential is there.

The swiss rifles are great but ammo is expensive. Supposedly though wolf is goinf to be releasing swiss ammo this summer

[dolanp]

Does a K31 require any modifications to attach a modern scope?

[Preacherman]

Cheap tack/nail driver?

Here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/553190/002-0788107-9603223) you are...

:D

[cookiemonster]

Preacherman, that was wrong. :) lmao


I have heard that some of the H&R's are good shooters...but you have to get lucky.

My M-39 Finn is a pure sweetheart with handloads...cast GC'd bullets are just....man...its fun to shoot that rifle. :)


That swiss rifle is a nice sounding long-gun however...think I might have to try it...

Darrell

[longhorngunman]

Hcker2000, go to www.surplusrifle.com , this is a great site about anything surplus. And yes a scope can be mounted to the k31. I believe a permanent mount is around $60 while the removable is more than the rifle. Damn fine gun though. www.swissrifles.com is a great site for all things swiss. The company that made them has now evolved into SigSauer, that should say a thing or two about quality. The rifles are good collectors items too, since they didn't make a high volume of them compared to other milsurps. I think www.classicarms.com and www.aimsurplus.com has them in stock currently from $80-$100. :)

[G.I.Jew]

the K-31 is an excellent rifle, but finding ammo can be a pain. You would be best off ordering it in large quantities.

[P95Carry]

If costs to be kept low then - take one Turk Mauser - put it on a ''fugly'' ATI stock - add scope and shoot. Now depends here how small are the tacks - but this rifle does shoot quite well. Ammo about as cheap as .22's.

I do suspect there is some barrel flexing/resonance - the main thing that opens groups, plus, I doubt the scope mounting is entirely solid. It is a lotta fun tho. I also reckon an Enfield MkIV can be made to perform quite well too.


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/ati_turk_s.jpg

[SONICMASD]

A swedish mauser is the most accurate and best quality out of all the mausers. it will shoot better than u can and companies still make 6.5x55 ammo.

[hcker2000]

Yea the k31 looks like it will be perfict. Is the k31 a competitor with newer bolt action riffles? From what people are saying it will.

[LiquidTension]

Wait - there are hammers that cost $189? What the heck do they do?

[rbernie]

I also reckon an Enfield MkIV can be made to perform quite well too.
Yup, but I imagine that it'll take a bit of effort to get close to MOA with most of 'em. (I think they're well worth the effort, but MOA outta da box they ain't.)

Any MilSurp is going to be a crapshoot, accuracy-wise. I've got a 1895 Chilean Mauser that'll shoot sub-MOA, but that's the exception rather than the norm. If you want accuracy with a minimum of fuss, get the K-31.

[hcker2000]

Yea the k31 seems to be the way to go. I like its interesting safty too :)

Ok so there are still companys making loads for the k31 right? I don't realy care what it costs to shoot. I would probably do 10 to 30 shots at a most with it and would then pick up my sks and have some good old fun with it.

[Dave R]

Here's your $60 scope mount for a K-31, which is only sorta permanent, in that you have to drive out the one pin that holds the rear site in place. Takes a few minutes, and you can replace the rear site whenever you want. Its a scout scope, though.

http://p077.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85

There's also a removeable standard scope mount that costs around $100. Its available through commercial channels, but you can read about it at www.swissrifles.com. Perrie St. Marie makes it.

You can buy GP-11 ammo for the K-1 for less than most modern commercial ammo. GP-11 is more expensive than the cheapest surplus ammo, but cheaper than most commercial ammo.

Or, if you handload, its as cheap to handload as any .308 or .30-06.

If you want a low-cost .22lr tack driver, get yourself a Romanian Model 1969 trainer. I haven't seen any lately, but if you find one, grab it.

[1911user]

If you really are determined to put a scope on the rifle and you want "tack driver" accuracy, forget the mil-surp bolt action rifles. Sure, you can buy a K-31 then spend alot of money on a scope mount and more money on a scope. Current ammo price is about $22 for 60 rounds, but it's cheaper if you reload. So add the cost of a reloading setup, the rifle brass, bullets, powder, and primers into the mix.

I sense cheap, accurate, and easy are the important things. Oh, and a scope also. Don't get me wrong, I like scopes and mil-surp rifles, but mixing the two is a real challenge especially if you don't want to pay a gunsmith to do the work.

My suggestion is to find an older savage model 110 bolt action rifle with a scope, mounts, and sling for $240-$250. It'll be pretty accurate and shoot commonly available ammo like 30-06, 308, 270, or similar. You could hunt deer or paper with it. You may want to reload this ammo for cost savings, but you won't have to in the beginning. In 30-06, you could shoot the Korean surplus ammo for 20 cents a round, but it's probably not target quality ammo.

Accurate bullets are a big cost driver whether you are buying factory ammo or reloading it yourself. What do You consider tack-driving accuracy? How much are you willing to spend to get it consistently? You need to define these before buying anything.

[hcker2000]

Nope definilty don't want any more .22LR's. I'm trying to get away from the one I have for a while. I'll have to look up the load you mentioned. Agine cost of ammo is no bigie.

EDIT: thanks for the link to the scope mount for it.

[hcker2000]

Honestly I'v never shot a high high end riffle so I'm not sure what my "requirments" are. Let me just take a stab in the dark and say I would like to be able to hit with in 6 inches at 500 yards. Keep in mind this is only a stab in the dark. If this is to much to expect out of a k31 or any milsurp riffle let me know what I should expect from it.

[1911user]

6 inches at 500 yards is a very worthy goal. Many rifles or people are not consistently capable of that performance. Of the mil-surps, the K31 is probably the only one with much of a chance and that's only with a good scope, stable scope mount, and very good ammo. Judging the wind will be the greatest challenge.

I'm not sure if an older savage model 110 (E model probably) would be good enough. I'm not sure the K31 would be either.

[english kanigit]

Get something cheap to shoot (or just cheap), mauser, k31, mosin, m1903a3 sniper (kidding :neener: ) and practice. I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of finnish mosins for under $100. The ammo is cheap, a surplus crate of 880 rounds is about $70-$80. Learn to use iron sights, learn to control your breathing, learn to out shoot the knucklehead with the fancy scoped rifle just using iron sights :p . Learn iron sights, an old milsurp don't need no stinking scope!

OK, I feel mo betta. :o

[Commissar Gribb]

I got a turkish 1893 mauser from www.centerfiresystems.com for $200 with no paperwork.

shoots about the same as my friend's mosin 91/44

I don't have an FFL so getting it sent right to me was pretty cool IMO.

[cookiemonster]

Commisar,

Is that a large ring action?

I am thinking of grabbing one of them and doing the conversion to 45 Winmag with that kit that is being sold. You use M-1 Carbine mags and even comes with a 18" barrel. Installation is supposed to be pretty easy and headspacing is fairly easy as well. I believe it comes with go no-go gauges, but even if it doesn't, I can probably make my own.

Approx. how strong is that action? Is it actual turk manuf. or is it an imported mauser?

Darrell

[hcker2000]

Well I'm glad I picked a some what resonable goal. Heck one time I saw a guy on tv shooting a buffalo target wiht a mettle plate for a hart at some thing like 600-1000 yards with a muzzle loader and ball ammo. He hit the target every time he shot at it with iron sites. You could barly see the freaking target. Was very amazing.

To the people who don't like to scope millsurp riffles. I can afford the k31 but wont be able to afford the mount and a decent scope for it for a while. Well I am saving up for that stuff I will be practising with the iron sites as well.

[cracked butt]

K-31
Iron sights are not a handicap to a person with decent eyesight who learns to shoot with them. Heck I'm pretty badly nearsighted and can hit golfball sized targets at 100 yards with iron sights without a problem, just put the tiny blurry object on top of the sharply focused front sight. ;)

Ok so there are still companys making loads for the k31 right?

Word on the street is that Wolf is gearing up to produce 7.5x55 ammo and could be available by later this year. Its kind of a gamble because I could be wrong and the ammo may never come out, or you can wait to see if it comes out, and K-31s will no longer be available.

Let me just take a stab in the dark and say I would like to be able to hit with in 6 inches at 500 yards. Keep in mind this is only a stab in the dark. If this is to much to expect out of a k31 or any milsurp riffle let me know what I should expect from it.

If you were to shoot at a 6" plate or gong at 500 yards, the K-31 is perfectly capable of it, but the shooter must be capable of it to make it happen.

[hcker2000]

Thats exactly what I wan't is some thing that will force me to take my time and learn the proper way to shoot things at 500 yards.

How long do you think I have before it will be hard to find a k31 riffle? Probably hard to say but if some one thinks it is going to be soon and has a good reason then I will save more each pay to buy one so I don't miss out.

[longhorngunman]

I'f you want one get it now. 6 months ago nearly every milsurp supplier on the net had the K31's. Now I can only find a couple. Ones out now are a little rougher than the earlier ones. Mine had a little rust on it, but it cleaned up nice and the rifling is perfect. I remember reading several sources(google it on the net) that is Winchester, ruger, Browning, etc were to produce these rifles today, that with the quality of the metal, workmanship, etc they would have to sell them between $1,500 and $2,000 a pop to make a profit. :what:

[hcker2000]

Now thats is a pricy gun ;)

Any one in central ohio with a licence? or am I gona have to check dunhams agine.

[cracked butt]

Dunham's should be getting them in again. All of them in my area were sold out of them for at least the last month, but today I stopped in a store and found one on the rack. The one example they had didn't look real nice though, in much rougher shape than the ones I bought months back.

[hcker2000]

So long as the bore and mettle parts are good I can alway fix up the stock or even re-make one if need be.

[longhorngunman]

hacker2000, If your in Ohio check out Aimsurplus or Southern Ohio Gun. There both based in Ohio, I'm not sure exactly where. I thank God on nearly a daily basis for you good people in Ohio. If not for ya'll I'd be in a world of despair thinking what "President Kerry" and his minions were doing to take our rights away. I have my pet peeves with Bush but compared to the alternative I'm a happy camper.

[Dave R]

How long do you think I have before it will be hard to find a k31 riffle?

Well, I woulda said half-hour, but Aim Surplus is out of them right now. But they are taking pre-orders...

If you can't find someone convenient to you that carries them, call around to the local gun shops and find one that will do an "FFL Transfer" for you.

Then call AIM Surplus and order it from them, and have it shipped to your FFL to do the transfer for you. That's how I got mine. The local FFL charged $20 for the transfer. AIM charged $79 for the rifle, and $16 for the shipping.

Here's Aim's website. http://www.aimsurplus.com/

So if your local store has one for less than $120 or so, you may be ahead.

You can usually find a few at a gun show, too.

[hcker2000]

I'm going to call buckeye outdoors tomarow and see what they got in stock and prices. The ammo thing wories me a bit. If all sources of ammo dry up would any one be willing to produce low quantitys of it (say 20-50 rounds at a time)?

[hcker2000]

I forgot about this tell just now. Buckeye outdoors lets you put guns on layaway. Even if I can't afford to buy it out right in the next two weeks (wife dose the bills :D ) then I can always throw it in lay away to make sure I get one before they are gone.

[Commissar Gribb]

Commisar,

Is that a large ring action?

I am thinking of grabbing one of them and doing the conversion to 45 Winmag with that kit that is being sold. You use M-1 Carbine mags and even comes with a 18" barrel. Installation is supposed to be pretty easy and headspacing is fairly easy as well. I believe it comes with go no-go gauges, but even if it doesn't, I can probably make my own.

Approx. how strong is that action? Is it actual turk manuf. or is it an imported mauser?

Darrell

large ring? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a mauser afficianado (sp?).

It's of a Gewher 98 style. double stack flush 5 round box magazine. has arabic writing on the receiver as well as some turkish looking symbols (stars and crescents). It's also got a few different dates on different parts (1934, 1945... I dont remember- the rifle is actually back home with my dad).

My guess is that it was made under license from germany as part of the central power's early war diplomacy and then was re-arsenalled and thrown into storage a dozen times. The handguard seems to match the stock but I'm not certain. I got a picture though.

http://www.pbase.com/commissargribb/image/38767631/large

bayonet was in lousy condition, everything (of course) was swimming in cosmoline. I had some trouble at first dealing with some corosion on the firing pin but some rust/blue remover fixed that. The blueing was surprisingly intact on the barrel/ receiver and the bolt was unblued. bayonet and sheath were crap like I said- dented sheath, torn up wood grips, nicked blade...

the rifle came with a ram rod that had stripped threading. I dont think it's original. standard clip pouch, 2 slings (why, I dont know).

all in all a fun shooter- a bit front heavy but it's a battle rifle! Now just to wait until it's banned as an "evil high caliber sniper weapon". :banghead:

[Dave R]

If all sources of ammo dry up would any one be willing to produce low quantitys of it (say 20-50 rounds at a time)?

I don't think its likely that ammo sources will dry up, as the number of 7.5 Swiss rifles that are being used is going up, as these rifles are taken out of warehouses and sold to shooters.

If you can't find someone to load ammo for you, you can always get into handloading, yourself. A K-31 is as good an excuseas any.

Visit the reloading forum and do a search on getting started in reloading. The subject is discussed regularly. The short version is it takes between $120 and $250 in equipment to get started (depending on whether you want "Chevy" equipment or "Cadillac" equipment.) Then you can shoot your K-31 all you want for $3.50-$6.00 per 20.

[hcker2000]

Well thats good to know. I didn't manage to get up early enough to call buckeye outdoors today. So I will probably give them a call monday. If they have alot then I will probably just save up and keep checking on how many they have left as I am doing that. If they have a few (less than 3) I will probably throw one in layaway there to make sure i get one.