Anyone know if these Polish P-64 Makarovs are any good?


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DarkKnight01
April 21, 2005, 03:52 PM
They sure look neat, supposed to be a Walther clone... heres some links to some for sale on gunsamerica, would appreciate any info on them, like are they as dead reliable as the bulgarians and east german makes of the regular makarov? etc.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976463130.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976572528.htm

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geojap
April 21, 2005, 04:18 PM
I don't own one. But I have read quite a bit about them. They aren't Makarovs. They are labelled as such, but their parts and design are different. A Makarov is considered to be the more solid pistol of the two, since there just isn't much that has gone wrong with the Makarov.

White Horseradish
April 21, 2005, 04:24 PM
Those are not really Makarovs. They are mistakenly called Makarov because of the caliber.

http://www.makarov.com/graphics/others/p64.jpg

DarkKnight01
April 21, 2005, 04:42 PM
Ok I see, its got the Makarov tag coz it fires the 9x18mm mak cartridge... interesting, they sure look neat, I just might have to try one, If anything itll be a range toy, but If it prooves itsself reliable id carry it =) a lil better than the .380 and looks to be about the same size.

Please keep the replies coming, id like to know more about these.

eagle45
April 21, 2005, 08:07 PM
Here is the place to look:

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

I don't own one, I do have one of the Bulgarian Maks which is a good little shooter, but a little hard on the hands. As I remember, they are not thoiught of as highly as the Maks.

Dave Markowitz
April 21, 2005, 09:13 PM
RON in PA used to have one. Workmanship was pretty good but it had a DA pull worse than an AMT Backup .45 DAO. IOW, the DA was so heavy as to be unusable.

For a shooter, a Makarov is far superior. As a collector's piece, they are kinda neat.

SouthpawShootr
April 21, 2005, 10:04 PM
Handled a few. Almost bought one. Then I thought I'd wait around a little and see if these are brought into the country in large numbers. I worry about spare parts. Hate to break something down the line and not be able to get parts for it. May pick one up anyway.

Snake Eyes
April 21, 2005, 10:42 PM
For the prices in those GA links you posted ($190), why wouldn't you just buy an actual, honest to goodness Makarov?

Thereby avoiding any unknowns or pitfalls, and ensuring yourself a vast database of support?

Huh? Why? :)

Just asking! ;) :confused: ;)

Walt Sherrill
April 21, 2005, 10:47 PM
Put simply, don't go there. Even with work, the trigger is almost unusable. (Think bumper jack attached to the front of a 1947 Buick.)

A good Mak is a far superior weapon. (Some of the new imports may even be cheaper... and a more-pricey East German Mak is generally outstanding.)

DarkKnight01
April 21, 2005, 11:39 PM
For the prices in those GA links you posted ($190), why wouldn't you just buy an actual, honest to goodness Makarov?

Coz I already have an EG Mak =) (well actually my lady does its her carry piece, im in the market for a Bulgy atm) Just thought it might be worth looking at this Polish wannabe Walther =) the horrific tales of the trigger have turned me off it tho, If I want something In a similar platform ill pick up a bersa thunder heh.

Trebor
April 22, 2005, 12:14 AM
Don't bother. A friend of mine bought one and I tried it. The trigger pull is EXTREMELY heavy and the gun is just about unshootable because of it. I've heard the spring can be replaced, but I'd just go with a Mak instead.

M2 Carbine
April 22, 2005, 01:00 AM
I liked them enough to buy 3.

They are accurate (about 10 inches at 50 yards).
Reliable.
Slightly smaller than a Makarov.
They look and feel smaller than the Makarov, but they are almost the same size.

They have a pretty good kick.
An almost unusable double action trigger.
Small sights.

Some have had trouble with the thumb safety when new. Easily fixed.

If you already have a Makarov or a few, the P-64 is an interesting addition, but it isn't the gun the Mak is and costs as much.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/P64andMak.jpg

50 yards
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/P-6450yards.jpg

DarkKnight01
April 22, 2005, 04:39 AM
Thx for the comparison pic M2 carbine, and yea that would be my only real reason, would be to have it just to have it, already have a nice EG and in the market for a bulgy.. the P-64 just looks neat =)

c_yeager
April 22, 2005, 04:55 AM
As a collectable they certainly have a place in your safe, but as far as quality is concerned; in a country where Makarovs can be bought for <$150 these should be selling for about $80.

Teakwood
April 22, 2005, 07:49 AM
Personally, I am not impressed by the P-64, but whatever light your fire...
I would like to point out that $190 is way too high. :eek:
http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplushandguns.html

M2 Carbine
April 22, 2005, 10:20 AM
Yes DarkKnight01, as Teakwood and c_yeager say $190 is too high.

If you buy it "just to have it" I think you will enjoy it.

We have one fun contest where we shoot the BG to save the hostage. The hostage is rewarding you with new cars, money, guns, airplanes, etc for shooting the BG without hitting her.

The other shooters harass the shooter while he's trying to concentrate. :neener:
Good fun.

I like using the P-64 for this, because it's so accurate and has small sights.

The last contest we had, the P-64 was putting so many shots in the same hole in the BG's head we were argueing over whether I was shooting off the target.:D

This is one of the targets, using a Kel Tec 380.
We usually shoot this target from 5 or 6 yards but this was a little closer as I recall.
It's a scaled down Texas CHL target with a head added.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/KT380_3_yds_s.jpg

RON in PA
April 22, 2005, 01:03 PM
How the nation that created the excellent Radom and the well made cold-war era TT-33 pistols could issue P-64s is beyond me. The Da trigger is for gorillas, essentialy unusable, and the recoil is very uncomfortable. One or two Polish posters have made negative comments about the P-64. :barf: :barf:

Ascot500
April 22, 2005, 01:40 PM
Hey M2 Carbine,
You mentioned the accuracy of the P-64. How does it compare with the Makarov?

DarkKnight01
April 22, 2005, 07:07 PM
Thx for the info all, Its not a must have, but If I come across one for a good price Ill probably pick one up just to have.

sgt127
April 23, 2005, 01:09 AM
As my last name ends with -ski, I had to have one. Pretty well machined, decent blue. All in all a pretty cool gun that I have never carried and lives in my safe. And, one further comment on the trigger, I've had Craftsman staple guns with much better triggers.

M2 Carbine
April 23, 2005, 02:23 AM
Ascot500
Hey M2 Carbine,
You mentioned the accuracy of the P-64. How does it compare with the Makarov?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The P-64 is pretty accurate.
I think the 9x18 is basically an accurate round.
The 2 Hungarian PA63 (9x18) pistols I've owned were also accurate.

The P-64 may be as accurate as the Makarov but it's harder to shoot as well as the Makarov, IMHO.
Bad trigger, hard recoil and smaller grip make it harder for me to shoot as well as the Mak.

But it's a challange and fun to shoot. :)

trinculo
July 9, 2008, 09:10 AM
Hi everyone, I am a proud owner of a P64, it's my service pistol since they're still issued to police officers fresh out of academy, the truth is:
- the gun is relatively heavy, even unloaded it weighs about 600 grams
- the grip is too short so you cannot really handle the recoil properly
- the sights are too thin and they're not marked in any way so aiming in artificial light is kinda tough, the good thing though is they dont bend or get damaged in service conditions since theyre made of metal
- they require large amounts of tar when cleaning otherwise they are heavy to operate and may jam, I always hev to wipe the tar off the clip when unloading
- the gun is well made though, it was the flagship of Polish short arms industry in the '60s, mine is 1976 and still in almost pristine condition
- the worst disadvantage: the trigger pull, it was supposed to be an additional safety feature that would prevent premature shots when holding the finger on the trigger - I think it may be compared to the Anti Stress mechanism on Walther P99, even though the one on P64 is quite primitive

MOST IMPORTANTLY the P64 is not a Mak, it only looks like one, but the mechanisms are similar to those of Walther PPK (e.g. the trigger guard is hinged and it serves as a disassembling catch as in PPK), the P64 is supposed to be shot from SA only which is unreasonable for a service pistol

Indy_Guy_77
July 9, 2008, 01:37 PM
I used to own one...

It was pretty good looking, nice deep finish on it.

Kicked like a mule, though. Ergonomics left much to be desired = painful recoil.

As has been said, the double action trigger pull is atrocious. It's up around 20lbs. Many folks put in a Walther spring to lighten it up and are quite pleased with the outcome.

The single action trigger on mine was as smooth as fresh butter; but long. Could barely feel the "moment before the shot". It was smooth..smooth..smooth..BANG.

I MIGHT pick up another one in the future...

-J-

6x6pinz
August 3, 2008, 09:47 PM
I have taken mine to the range a few times now. I am going to use it to qualify for my ccw permit. As has been said in previous post the accuracy is just amazing for a small pistol with small sites. Groups of less than a quarter size are common at 30ft. Really a fun gun to shoot but would not want to shoot it all day.

weregunner
August 3, 2008, 10:00 PM
For those who want to get info or discuss the P64 or Pa-63 psitol owners there is:

http://p64.porboards67.com/

or
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46

makarovnik
August 4, 2008, 01:05 AM
If the parts were as plentiful as Makarov parts I would say I like my P64 better. Unfortunately that isn't the case. The recoil on my P64 was brutal until I installed a Wolff spring kit. That along with some rubber grips and now the recoil is manageable. The P64 is a little smaller but I can shoot it very accurately. The slide seemed to loosen up a little faster on my Russian Makarov. I think they are both good guns but there are more factory and after-market parts available for the true Makarov.

Nimble1
August 4, 2008, 08:35 AM
Have had one and carried it for a couple of years now. I did replace the trigger spring with a lighter one and the DA pull is much better.As other posters have said, it is very accurate and has quite a heavy recoil. Not pleasant to shoot alot but a nice little gun.

destrux
January 31, 2009, 08:59 PM
I have one that I use as a CCW. If you can't use the DA on it, you can carry it condition 3 (chamber empty, safety off, hammer down). Then when you rack the slide it's ready to fire. I wouldn't recommend it though. I carry mine with the chamber loaded, safety on. I have "gorilla" hands, so I can shoot it well in DA mode, and as previously posted, the SA is like butter (although mine has a short crisp SA pull). I tried that walther spring mod to make the DA lighter and didn't like it. It has a tendency to make the mags drop if you hold the gun tight during recoil because of the style of mag release on this gun (the mag release uses the mainspring for pressure). Plus it made the SA pull scary light (I measured 2 lbs). Too light for a CCW. Mine has also been very accurate and perfectly reliable with Fiocchi and S&B FMJ. The grips are crap though, the plastic cracks (and has sharp edges to begin with). I bought nice walnut grips for mine. They seemed to help with the recoil, which is horrible (as with any compact unlocked blowback handgun). Also, the loaded chamber indicator is nice. I paid $150 a few years ago for it. I was told it was a Polish makarov by the seller, I didn't know any better at the time. Overall I like it. It is an attractive gun, and the build quality is way above the price point (well, except for the grips).

rkirchmeyer
July 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
I own two and if I could find another one I'd buy it. The P64 is VERY reliable. No jams whatever. Reliability is why the Polish police carried them for years. My only complaint are the rear sights are small. They are more precision sights, deadly at the range but harder to acquire quickly. BUT if you're in a hurry who's using sights anyway? I know some complain about the trigger pull in double action but you can buy trigger springs and recoil springs from Wolf that are very, very, easy to replace and it will lighten the pull quite a bit making the double action really smooth. Video directions for changing the springs are on the net. Girls may have a problem with the pull in DA but really it isn't a problem. If it is, spend a few bucks and change the dang springs. I did even though I didn't have any complaints about the pull and it did make a notable difference. The gun is made of all steel (except the grips). No plastic in the frame like the Kel-Tec which I believe contributes to the reliability. This is a very solid gun. I also own a Kel-Tec 380 P3AT but I like the P64 better. More steel = more weight so in the pocket you'll feel the difference but not in the holster. Ammo (9x18) is easier to find than .380 (9x17) or the 9mm (9x19) The gun is great. Don't hesitate to buy one if you like the price.

Dr_2_B
July 27, 2009, 11:02 PM
This thread has been resurrected more times than socialized medicine.

ZombiesAhead
July 27, 2009, 11:07 PM
From experience, I can say yes, the DA trigger is terrible but otherwise I like the feel and size of the gun. The weight helps with practical accuracy and it's a decent shape for concealed carry. I think it would be worth it for under $180 or so.

spence
July 28, 2009, 01:02 AM
who knows about RK-59 I think they are by feg . are they any good ,and where can I get one, how much?

Dr_2_B
July 28, 2009, 07:25 PM
The one time I looked at buying one of these things I found the double action trigger pull to be the Polish version of crimes against humanity.

SniperStraz
July 28, 2009, 07:34 PM
Would there be any way to remove the decocking feature so that the weapon could be carried cocked and locked? (Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm not very familiar with decocking mechanisms.)

Dr_2_B
July 29, 2009, 12:50 AM
Sniper this P64 forum is pretty good. They'll answer your question, though I'm afraid the answer is 'no.'

http://p64.proboards.com/index.cgi

SniperStraz
August 13, 2009, 11:07 PM
Thanks Dr. 2 B.

makarovnik
August 14, 2009, 02:17 AM
I love mine. It kicks like a mule so I put in a stronger recoil spring, weaker main spring and slip-on rubber grips. It is now manageable and very accurate. I paid about $150 for mine brand new.

Nimble1
August 14, 2009, 09:33 AM
I'll just add to what many others have said, the P64 kicks like hell,stock trigger is atrocious, but it is very accurate! Replace the trigger spring and the pull becomes acceptable. Its a pretty neat carry gun .

Drgong
August 14, 2009, 10:17 AM
the PA64 and the PA-63 are both decent guns, but to be blunt, I find the DA of the nagant Revolver more pleasing then a PA out of the box, and by the time you put in springs, new grips, and so on, you could of had a real Mak.

I owned a PA-63 for a short while, traded it away for a steal of a deal on a J-frame, I wouldn't mind having another one for the right price, but this right price is more $125 or less.

makarovnik
August 14, 2009, 06:21 PM
I think my spring kit cost all of $15 including tax and shipping.

$150 + $15 = less than a used makarov and my P64 was brand spankin' new.

Solidus-snake
October 13, 2009, 07:36 PM
Im thinking about buying one off a buddy of mine, they seem nice n small, affordable ammo, and accurate. Was gonna carry it as a backup pistol.

All this I hear about the trigger, in a high stress situation with adrenaline pounding in your veins, would you really even feel the heavy trigger? I doubt it.;)

woad_yurt
October 13, 2009, 08:00 PM
Solidus-snake:

After you try that trigger pull, see if you still stand by your statement above. It's really heavy. Some folks have trouble getting off the first shot. I've seen two females that couldn't shoot the thing without using both index fingers. That said, Wolff has a $10 spring that takes five minutes to install and solves all.

Sgt. Stiglitz
October 13, 2009, 08:01 PM
I have one and a CZ-82. Yes the double action pull is very hard but they do loosen up. Single action is great. I think that any parts you might break on one, any good Gun Smith could make. They are simple. Wolf makes spring kits for them. Dont go cutting coils off any of the springs.:what: I Chrono'd some Silver Bear 95gr FMJ's out of my P-64 the other day. I even caught some Speer 90gr Gold Dot HP's and Hornady 95gr XTP's I loaded with 4.1grs of WW-231. Out of the P-64 you get with Silver Bear 95 gr FMJ's, barrel length 3.33"below:

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/Sapo60/100_6740.jpg

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/Sapo60/100_6738.jpg
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/Sapo60/100_9844.jpg

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/Sapo60/100_9654.jpg
972fps
941
884
1013
984
980
954........

Out of the CZ-82 you get with the same load of 4.1 WW-231:

1144fps
1122
1111
1095

Factory 95Gr FMJ's are below out of the CZ-82. Barrel Length
97 mm or 3.8


1050fps
1088
1067
1137
1085
1137
1125
1095
1138
1117
1109
1089

I didn't Chrono the reloads out of the P-64 but I imagine they go around a 100fps slower than the CZ-82. Maybe next range day I will chrono some out of the P-64.

Factory Silver Bear FMJ's come out looking almost ready to be used again after being shot into water........Unlike the Speer and Hornady HP's that really do expand.

The P-64 and a Walther PPK fed the same weight bullets shoot so close to the same speeds there really isn't any difference between the too. Out of the CZ-82's longer barrel, you get more bang out of the 9X18 by about an extra 100-125 fps.

ronbuick
December 4, 2009, 12:37 AM
I just bought one and was wondering if the mags are the same between the two, thanks

Ron

TehK1w1
December 4, 2009, 11:39 AM
No, they will not interchange.

ronbuick
December 4, 2009, 04:38 PM
that sucks

Fiv3r
December 4, 2009, 04:52 PM
Good luck with your new P-64. I love mine. Shoots cheaper than .380, but goes anywhere I can't take a full sized handgun. I hate the double action, but this is generally just a back up gun so drawing a wracking it Israeli style is fine for me. it's the gun I pack when I don't feel like packing a gun;)

Accurate and built like a little tank (weighs as much as one too). Ammo is generally available to boot. I know the lil' P-64 has supplemented my shooting with the .380, .45acp, 9mm, etc in short supply at times.

makarovnik
December 4, 2009, 09:36 PM
I own one and it is accurate and reliable. The double action is stiff but the mainspring has to be heavy to help with slide travel and heavy recoil. The recoil is NASTY but can be made slightly better with heavier recoil spring and rubber grips.

ronbuick
December 4, 2009, 10:17 PM
just went on the Wolff spring site and they sell different lb. springs for the recoil and also for the hammer DA pull, very inexpensive so when the p-64 arrives, after shooting I will move some springs around and see what differences their are in all the actions, I think a heavier recoil spring hopefully will cut down on the recoil! we will see, but need to shoot her first, thanks

Ron

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