Grampa's Guns


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TheLastBoyScout
March 15, 2003, 12:13 AM
My grandfather had some surgery done recently, and he's still not at 100%. In fact, he's been talking more and more about 'tin-foil hat' topics.

Today when me and my dad swung by his house to pick up a rifle, we found that inside his safe, he had all his weapons off safety, loaded mag in the well, and open bolt. The weapons are all .22 plinkers, and before he had been known to keep mags filled and close to hand for his 'favorite' but none of the others.

I can't find any logical reason to keep the weapons like that. They're in the safe, so they aren't accessible quickly enough for last ditch HD, and he lives in the suburbs, so it's not like he can lean out the window and shoot the squirrel nibblin on his garden. In addition, he could be arrested under PA state law if he tries to transport the guns the way they are.

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Preacherman
March 15, 2003, 01:04 AM
LBS, you might want to very seriously consider having your dad and/or other family members discuss the situation with your grandfather's doctor(s). There have been tragedies under such circumstances, that might have been avoided if the family had been aware of potential danger and removed the weapons before they became a risk. Not a pleasant thing to have to do, but who knows how many of us might need our loved ones to do the same for us someday? :(

cslinger
March 15, 2003, 03:03 AM
Just for the record I have firearms in my safes that are loaded. My reasons are twofold.

1 if I ever have to open the safe up under duress I have something to possibly fight back with.

2 I treat all my guns as being loaded like we all should all the time. Many of my guns are loaded in some fashion or another. Not necessarily chambered but loaded mag etc. Keeps the old brain working when not only are you telling yourself that all guns are loaded all guns are loaded no matter what but in my case chances are they will be. This simply doesn't allow myself to be lulled into the all guns are loaded but I know I never have this one loaded so why devote the brain power etc....I alway treat guns as loaded as I should but having certain firearms loaded keeps me sharp so to speak.

Flame away, it may be stupid. Besides, you never know when a truck full of middle eastern terrorists pull up into the court and you know what that means.................................screw the shootout with the heavily armed bad guys I am heading for the hills and calling the cops on the cell phone.:D

I am not saying that your Grandpa doesn't have issues, as you know him better then any of us. I agree with Preacherman that if you suspect something is not right to make sure things are put right before he has access to the firearms. None of us want to see any tragedies.

Take care and I hope your grandpa hangs in there and gets back to 100%.

Chris

Sisco
March 15, 2003, 07:09 AM
When my father first fell ill with Alzheimers he was very depressed. He had already given all his guns to me except for the 9mm that he always kept by the bed.
My Mother was concerned that with a combination of the depression and the Alzheimers that having the loaded gun around wasn't a real good idea. I took it home with me to "clean her up".
I had it for a couple of months until he remembered it was missing and demanded it be returned. I brought it back to him but it was loaded with inert rounds. I soaked the primers in oil then loaded the rounds with no powder.
He was happy, his gun was back where it belonged, Mom was happy not worrying about Dads mental state and a loaded weapon by the bed.

Kahr carrier
March 15, 2003, 07:11 AM
Since Grampa not 100% yet after surgery and may have health issues , If it were me I would remove the weapons until he was better . I have a friend that had an Uncle that was terminally sick but he did not know about his Uncles cancer until it was to late. That Uncle had asked to borrow his 308 rifle to go hunting with ,so he lent his Uncle the 308 and didnt think twice about it. Well 2 days later he found out his Uncle had killed himself with the 308. So If you are not sure about your Grampas frame of mind I would remove them. Hope it works out for you.

Hal
March 15, 2003, 08:57 AM
Just for the record I have firearms in my safes that are loaded. cslinger,
(No flame.) Not really the same thing. I'm assuming you're in complete control of your facilities and not under medication. I have a couple of loaded guns both in and out of the safe too.

Sounds like Gramps is having some post surgery/new med reactions. A talk with his doc might be in order before something happens.

My Grandfather(82) got up one morning, ate breakfast, read the paper and talked pleasantly with my Aunt and Uncle about what they were going to do that day. He got up from the breakfast table, walked into his bedroom and shot himself. No(little) forewarning about it.

Could have been his meds, could have been his age,,,could have been something building up for quite a while,,,prolly never know.

Sisco
March 15, 2003, 09:23 AM
After re-reading my post and Kahr carriers I realize that after seeing the hell my Dad went through before he finally passed away I hope that if I'm ever in the same condition no one takes my gun away.
There's even a possibility, given certain circumstances, that I would be grateful to someone who handed it to me then left the room. Quantity of life means nothing without quality.

cslinger
March 15, 2003, 11:18 AM
No flame taken. I am fully with everybody who things the firearms should be secured until everything is deemed ok.

I just think that we need to be careful around our elderly and not take too much care of them. What I am saying is people tend to treat teens, the elderly and the handicapped differnently when they don't always need to.

I am not saying let your 15 year old play Wyatt Earp with your Sixgun nor am I saying let the wheel chair person get up the three flights of stairs.

I am just saying that part of getting old that must be very hard is suddenly having everybody treat you like you are a child again. Now this is completely necessary on many occassions but sometimes it is not.

As I said before I would definitely secure thelastboyscout's grand dads firearms in this situation. I have alrady said a prayer or two that he gets back to full power. I really hope you and yours are hanging in their also.

Take care
Chris

TallPine
March 15, 2003, 11:42 AM
Mags loaded, bolts open and ready for action ... hmmm ?

Sounds like maybe you need to take away his newpapers and tv instead. ;)

Chipperman
March 15, 2003, 01:23 PM
Whether or not he should have the option to end his own life is one question that I won't debate. My concern would be an accidental shooting of another person if he's not 100% aware.

NapAttack
March 15, 2003, 01:37 PM
I am currently dealing with this same situation with my father-in-law. As soon as he started exhibiting symptoms we removed his firearms.

I have to agree with Sisco here. If we believe in personal freedom then the ultimate personal freedom is whether or not to continue with our own lives. I would probably feel the same way as Sisco in quality over quantity.

My father died of lung cancer little over a year ago and his wishes were for no extraordinary measures. He refused chemo and surgery because of the extent of the cancer by the time it was found and his age. We respected his wishes. He died at home, in bed and my mom and his sister wouldn't even call an ambulance because of the measures they would take.

However, that said, we removed my father-in-laws guns not because of any fear that he might harm himself but with his deteriorating faculties, he might have an accident and injure someone else or himself.

Sisco
March 15, 2003, 07:09 PM
NapAttack said whay I ment to say too... the reason I 'fixed' Dads gun was not out of fear (though I did have concerns) of what he may do to himself but what could happen to others in the house.

jsalcedo
March 15, 2003, 08:13 PM
This thread shows an excellent example of responsible folks taking care of their own before the government/police/social welfare steps in and does it their way.

I have heard too many horror stories of entire gun collections removed from peoples homes for percieved mental problems
or lack of emotional stability.

My dad was recently diagnosed with Post Traumatic stress disorder from his time in Vietnam. According to the doctors he is 100% disabled.
He is the same person I've known all my life I've never had an issue with his moods or behavior except for the emotional toll
the war took on him he seems fine.


He is not allowed a CCW or to purchase firearms due his disability I still take him shooting and I know he still has a gun collection.

I just hope I'm not put in the position someday to take care of any potentially harmful situations. I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks guys for enlightening me on this subject

HankL
March 15, 2003, 08:41 PM
Or, perhaps Gramps wanted to make sure you guys didn't want you to hassle with finding the correct magazine for each rifle and he had more loaded mags than you thought. The bolts were all open so no problem in putting you in harms way.

This is very sad. Take good care of your grand dad.

Coltdriver
March 15, 2003, 09:55 PM
It is usually the case, to some degree, that if everyone lives long enough that your parents eventually do become your children:D

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