An Oklahoma First - For Me...


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Werewolf
April 24, 2005, 01:57 PM
I'm not much of a gunshow guy but I go a couple of times a year usually. The Claude Hall gunshow is in OKC this weekend and my grand daughter wanted to go so we went Sunday morning.

When we got there in 6" high block letters was a huge sign on the entrance proclaiming:

NO CONCEALED WEAPONS

Except for where I work and a hospital I've visited on a number of occasions that sign was a first for me in Oklahoma. Oklahoma prohibits CCW in a number of places but gunshows aren't one of them and the State Fair Grounds (where the show was) is specifically exempted in the OK Self Defense Act law from prohibitions against CCW on the grounds.

I thought about just turning around and leaving but chose a different path.

Instead I walked in and asked how much for a ticket and when I was told I responded, "That big no concealed weapons sign cost you a customer today - I don't do business with anti-second amendment bigots - especially those who pretend to be otherwise". (Thanks to Standing Wolf for the quote - it was perfect).

The lady taking the cash was to say the least a bit taken aback. She asked what I was talking about - they were running a gun show and how could they be anti-second amendment. I told her the 2A was about the right to keep and bear arms and anyone who wanted to disarm me or anyone else was about as anti-RKBA as one could get and thus anti-2A. At that point the old fat fart sitting next to her said "just ignore him - he's just some old radical militia a'hole. Go on get outta here we don't want your money anyway".

I just shot him the finger and left. Not the high road for sure but seeing that sign at a gunshow was weird to say the least. Needless to say I won't be going to the Claude Hall gun show ever again.

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moby clarke
April 24, 2005, 02:35 PM
Unfortunately, most show operators can not get insurance if they do not post the No Guns Sign. Remember, concealed means concealed.

g56
April 24, 2005, 04:01 PM
There is a very simple reason for the sign, the safety of the attendees. At a gun show people often take their weapon out to show it off, for a trade or to sell it, you don't want people handling loaded weapons in a crowded building, handling a loaded weapon in those conditions is a set up for an accident.

Standing Wolf
April 24, 2005, 05:28 PM
(Thanks to Standing Wolf for the quote - it was perfect).

You're entirely welcome, although neither thanks nor credit are needed.

There is a very simple reason for the sign, the safety of the attendees. At a gun show people often take their weapon out to show it off, for a trade or to sell it, you don't want people handling loaded weapons in a crowded building, handling a loaded weapon in those conditions is a set up for an accident.

What you're saying is exactly what the leftist extremists say all the time: law-abiding American citizens can't be trusted with firearms.

kudu
April 24, 2005, 05:36 PM
Can you carry open In Oklahoma? If no concealed, carry open. ;)

Werewolf
April 24, 2005, 06:06 PM
Open carry in OK is a big no-no except while hunting.

In all the years I've lived here going to 2 gun shows a year I've never seen that sign before. The last time I went to a Claude Hall gun show was probably 3 years at least and maybe 5 - no sign then as best I can recall - if there had been one I wouldn't have gone in.

Insurance is probably the reason for the sign. Makes no sense to me - that sign's not gonna stop anything from happening that is gonna happen. Insurance companies are pretty smart though when it comes risk management so maybe they know something I don't. Sucks!

The Claude Hall gun show is the most classy of all that comes to OKC (we get at least 1 a month - sometimes 2 a month). It is what I'd call a real gun show. No white trash stands, no jewelry, no swords, no nazi garbage - pretty much just guns - which is why I wanted to go. Too bad - I was primed and ready to spend some of the money the government so graciously condescended to give back to me this year. Won't happen there though - not now - not ever - unless that sign comes down.

49hudson
April 24, 2005, 06:36 PM
It was my understanding that while the Okla. St. Fair Grds., are exempt for concealed carry, the buildings are not.
I talked to an OCPD Capt., who is usually setting at the front door about this. His's reply was" well, we don't look for them{CCweapons}. You pays your money and takes your chance!

Werewolf
April 24, 2005, 10:01 PM
It is my understanding from reviewing the approiate sections of the OK SDA that the fairgrounds and the buildings are both exempt unless otherwise posted. BUT then IANAL.

I've never seen any building posted at any function including the State Fair nor any gun show except the Claude Hall gun show today. Hell! If you're in OKC go to the Sooner gun show (Tricity Gun Club (http://www.tricitygunclub.org) has a good schedule of all the gun shows coming to OKC). and see how many CCW holders you can count? The You'll lose track if you've got a half way good eye for spotting 'em.

Another thing they wanted done which I've not seen before is that all weapons brought in would have their actions opened and secured with a plastic tie wrap.

49hudson
April 24, 2005, 11:10 PM
Title 21,Sec 1277 Unlawful carry in certian places
B.
d. any property designated by a city, town, county, of state ,governmental authority as a park, rec, area, or fairgrounds;provided nothing in this subparagraph shall be costrued to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.
?

bratch
April 25, 2005, 12:44 AM
I was at Claude Halls in the past 6 months and there were no signs. Must be a very very recent change.

Against my better judgement I supported an anti last week I was torn but ended up doing it.

saltydog
April 25, 2005, 06:47 AM
What you're saying is exactly what the leftist extremists say all the time: law-abiding American citizens can't be trusted with firearms.

Its not about trust, its about safety. I have walked the isle's at the big Tulsa gun show and have noticed numerous time's of people pointing firearms accross the building at eye level. People may be law abiding but I know alot of people "who are not, nor do" have safety on their mind when it comes to firearms and other people. :uhoh:

AnthonyRSS
April 25, 2005, 08:37 AM
Every gun show I've ever been to wanted the actions opened and ziptied. With hundreds of people and thousands of guns in one room, there is going to be some sweeps. You can't point a gun anywhere without someone being there. You don't know if someone will see your piece and ask to look at it, and then you forget its loaded and pull it out and shoot something. (Not you specifically, but not everyone is like you, many people are dumb around guns.

TechBrute
April 25, 2005, 09:34 AM
What you're saying is exactly what the leftist extremists say all the time: law-abiding American citizens can't be trusted with firearms. Have you ever BEEN to a gun show? I can't tell you how many times I get muzzle-swept in a normal show outing. I'll actually come out and say it... not all gun owners are safe! Just south of here in October, 2003, there was a gun show that had a ND from a FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON by a VENDOR! But I'm sure that safety rules are just for bigots and extremists.

Werewolf, I don't know about OK, but here in Texas you must post a specific type of sign (30.06) to ACTUALLY PROHIBIT CONCEALED WEAPONS. Simply posting a sign such as you have described does not legally prohibit a CHL carrier from entering while carrying. I've never seen a 30.06 posted at a show, just the fodder sign to appease the insurance company. Of course, we could always just cancel all the shows because they can't get insurance. That'll show 'em!

Nice job on calling them bigots and flipping them the bird. I'm sure that will get them to listen to you.

dolanp
April 25, 2005, 09:53 AM
You know you're an ultra-right-winger when: The guy at the gun show calls you a radical militia a-hole! :D

Werewolf
April 25, 2005, 11:30 AM
Title 21,Sec 1277 Unlawful carry in certian places
B.
d. any property designated by a city, town, county, of state ,governmental authority as a park, rec, area, or fairgrounds;provided nothing in this subparagraph shall be costrued to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.
?

OK Statute 21-1277 Subsection A:§21-1277.

UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES

A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid
concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the
Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, to
carry any concealed handgun into any of the following places:

1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased
by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for
the purpose of conducting business with the public;

2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials,
school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or
appointed officials;

3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to
process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged
delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;

4. Any elementary, secondary, or vocational-technical school property;

5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;

6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law; and

7. Any other place specifically prohibited by law.

Nothing in section A prohibits carry in fairgrounds buildings. Even though they are owned by the state (I think) they are not used to conduct government business with the public (which I've been told by a lawyer is the intent of the law). They are rented out to private businesses to conduct business with the public.

As I said before I go to a couple of gunshows a year and have for many years. Only the Claude Hall one has the sign though it's been 3 to 5 years since I last attended a CH show. I usually go to the Sooner Gun Shows.

sturmruger
April 25, 2005, 11:55 AM
All of the gun shows that I go to have those stupid signs up. If I were you I would just ignore them.

Okiecruffler
April 25, 2005, 04:08 PM
I've been to lots of Claude Hall's and Sooner shows, seen the signs from time to time at both.
One a totally unrelated note, I always seem to feel heavier on one side while I walk around. And no one's ever frisked me.
Had to work all weekend, so I missed this one. Too bad since I have a long list of stuff I need.

vendean
April 25, 2005, 04:28 PM
In Topeka Ks. there is no concealed carry anywhere. I believe in the right to keep and carry arms. I am not a criminal so therefore I am not to be deprived of my constitutional rights. Well what did our forefathers do when confronted with restictions. They ignored them, I carry when and where. I don't spout off and I don't give any single finger salutes. I just do what the constitution says I am allowed to do. if we all do that then their laws that violate our rights will be a moot point and if we convince our friends to disobey unconstitutional laws they will eventualy get used to freedom and will convince others. Soon there will be enough people enjoying freedom that the likely result will be that the constitution will begin to mean what it used to mean. Soon laws will begin to follow.
vendean
Pro Altare
Et
Pro Rex

brm3601
April 25, 2005, 04:47 PM
I have been to the Tulsa arms show several times and never encountered any situation like this. Of course there should be no loaded weapons in the building other than those of security guards and police officers on duty. I was thinking af attending a OKC gun show but with the attitude of the people at the front door I think I'll pass now. Don't they know our attendance helps pay thier wages.

mons meg
April 25, 2005, 07:04 PM
Werewolf....some further clarification supporting your position:

B. For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:

...blah blah blah...

d. any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds; provided nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.


And, IANAL, but Subsection A is referring to city/state buildings whose purpose is doing business with the public, e.g. City Hall, the DMV, etc etc...

IANTAGOSOOK (I am not the AG of the State of OK) :) But I take that to mean you *can* carry in the Oklahoma Building and other expo buildings.

Waffen
April 25, 2005, 07:53 PM
Is it that demanding to ask that no loaded weapons be carried into a gun show? I know you may be safe with guns, but what about jonny-moron who just got his CCL and wants to get a nice holster for his gun? I don't know about you, but like above posters I have been muzzle swept too many times to be ok with even a fraction of guns in a gun show to be loaded. Why should I have to guess? This is a far different concern than the RKBA.

Either way, in most any situation of a "gun show shootout" it would be near impossible to make a shot without risk of collateral damage. Just think of all the crossfire that ensue if everyone at a gun show drew their CCW and started blasting away at someone.

It is not some leftist attempt to shut down gun shows or restrict rights. It’s just a common safety concern.

And honestly, a gun show is one place I feel comfortable about not having my concealed carry weapon.

38SnubFan
April 25, 2005, 08:45 PM
And honestly, a gun show is one place I feel comfortable about not having my concealed carry weapon. I have to agree with this. If there's a gun show shootout, I'm sure the vendors can get those guns loaded and ready PDQ. Also, it's a crowded place and difficult to take a shot at a BG without the risk of hitting an innocent, ricochet, or over-penetration (even with a JHP round).

I'm all for concealed carry. I do it everyday. At least one of the two handguns goes with me when I step out the door. That said though, if I'm going somewhere where I can't carry it, then it can stay in the car. I sure as heck don't CCW at a job interview, at a bar while consuming alcohol (I've been known to meet up with friends while CCW and NOT drink alcohol though); and of course, where illegal here in PA, which includes government buildings and schools.

I'm totally for exercising and defending my 2A right to carry. However, I will "give in" if it benefits me (read: I get a really good deal on a great gun at the show) and not go blasting off at the mouth and trying to start a boycott over it.

They're a private business and reserve that right to not allow CCW, just as you reserve the right not to attend if you're so strongly against their policy. They made their choice; you made yours. If a family member or friend requests I don't bring my gun into their home, I respect that and not disown them over it.

In a nutshell: GET OVER IT!

-38SnubFan

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