Armscor 1911 vs Kimber 1911...no seriously


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orangeninja
April 25, 2005, 06:00 PM
So I shot a fellow THR members 1911 by Armscor and have not forgotten it. I'm jonesing for a 1911 pretty hard now. But a couple of concerns.

1.) I'm not 100% sold on the 1911 platform for defense and don't know if I will carry it. As such getting 700 plus into one is a little steep. Armscor makes a 4 inch barreled "loaded" type with the Novack goodies, but has anyone seen these or know where to get them?

2.) Does your Armscor feed HP well?

3.) How well do they back their stuff?

4.) Is Kimber REALLY worth another 400 plus bucks?

5.) Isn't either the Armscor or Kimber parts interchangeable?

6.) Do you consider a 5 inch barreled 1911 to be too big for CCW? Is it hot where you live?


Edit...the 4 inch barrel one is the "medium" sized 1911 on their sight I believe.
Thanks.

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orangeninja
April 25, 2005, 06:06 PM
Found a pic of the 4 incher.

http://www.armscor.net/Pistols.htm

Longbow
April 25, 2005, 06:12 PM
My experience has been very satisfactory with both manufacturer. Although, my Kimber was a non-II series.
Go here www.1911forum.com for more info.

Reed1911
April 25, 2005, 06:40 PM
The Armscor 1911's are a very good buy for the money. So of course are the Kimber's. The difference being is if you want to pay the extra money for the small refinements.

GreenFurniture
April 25, 2005, 06:50 PM
Yeah, I once thought about buying a Corvette or a Porsche.

Bought the Porsche.

You should buy the Kimber.

HighVelocity
April 25, 2005, 08:20 PM
My Armscor experience got off to a pretty rocky start but after some smithing to resolve hp feed issues it functions flawlessly and I am a happy camper.
I would feel comfortable carrying it and I'm sure plenty of folks use a 5" 1911 as thier CCW.

wally
April 25, 2005, 08:43 PM
Read my threads about my Armscor made Charles Daly EMS 4" and Armscor 5"

CD EMS:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=94564

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=106541

Armscor 45:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113465


Springfield "loaded" features at under "GI" prices, what's not to like. As word gets out they will really shake up the market if my guns are typical and they don't jack up the price.

I've four Kimbers, and the triggers on these Armscor made guns are so close to as good its unbelievable for the prices. I like them so much I just picked up a Charles Daly 3.5" Field ECS gun at last saturday's gunshow, couldn't get to the range because of some rain but the trigger on it is even better than on the other two with snap caps. No problems with standard mags dropping free on this second CD, like I had out of the box with the EMS.

Also have an Armscor 5" 9mm 1911-A2 "wide body" on its way -- I'll post a range report as soon as I get it!

--wally.

PS Had to stop and help the wife in with the groceries, didn't address a couple of your points:

4.) Is Kimber REALLY worth another 400 plus bucks?

Definitely if you plan to re-sell it. I seriously doubt it otherwise.


5.) Isn't either the Armscor or Kimber parts interchangeable?

Kimber has non-standard external extractors, I've seen new Armscor/CD guns with external extractors appear recently too, (I jumped on this CD ECS *because* it was internal extractor, $374 out the door) These will likely be single source like the Kimber externals are. I've heard claims Armscor external extractors are OEM from Tangfolio TZ guns, I've no way to verify and doubt TZ extractors will be easy to find either.

When the extractor broke on my EMS at about 5200 rounds, I dropped in the old blue extractor I had used to replace the one that broke in my Colt (about 7-8000 rounds) while looking for a stainless one to match. Hangs out the back a bit because the slide is a bit short (not an uncommon problem), I'll fit a stainless one properly when I get one.

I wouldn' bet the farm on the Armscor/CD sight dovetails matching Kimber or SA or Para or anyone else's, I've no way to measure accurately enough to know

Flashpoint
April 25, 2005, 09:07 PM
Hey Wally,

what's the deal with the Armscor Medallion Standard?

wally
April 25, 2005, 09:11 PM
Don't know, what's an "Armscor Medallion Standard?"

--wally,

HighVelocity
April 25, 2005, 09:29 PM
I found some of the small parts are not interchangable between Armscor and Colt. Mag release, slide stop and even grips were not swapable without fitting.

RRTX
April 25, 2005, 09:32 PM
I carry a 5" 1911 year round, and you have seen me with it I'm sure. Your concealment method is basically the same as mine, loose shirt over a tucked in under shirt so I don't see you having any trouble. You are more than welcome to try on my Springfield and put some rounds through it. :D

PCRCCW
April 25, 2005, 10:36 PM
RIA, Armscor, CD etc are all just 1911's. Why wouldnt parts interchange with a Colt/Kimber/Springer etc. That makes no sense to me.
For my money.......Id get a 500$ used Kimber Classic and just leave it alone.
Its not 400$ more and its still a Kimber.
Shoot well.........

Flashpoint
April 25, 2005, 10:42 PM
Don't know, what's an "Armscor Medallion Standard?"

Go to the link that alduro posted and scroll to the bottum left pistol.

railroader
April 25, 2005, 10:46 PM
I had a 5" armscor and I have a kimber custom. Out of the box the armscor had a tight chamber which was fixed under warranty. As for fit and finish the kimber was much better but the armscor shot pretty good. On the armscor I replaced the trigger, hammer, sear and beavertail with used kimber parts which to me was an upgrade. If it was my choice I would spend alittle extra and look for the used kimber also. Mark

wally
April 25, 2005, 10:53 PM
Slide stops, firing pin retainers, bushings etc. often need a little fitting, extractors usually need a little tweaking (tension adjustment) after replacement.
Trigger parts I leave to real gunsmiths who's reputation I trust. I've found Ambi safeties to drop into the two Colts and one Norinco I added them to. (Armscor 45 and CD EMS already have these out of the box)

As to the grips, My CD EMS is wearing rubber grips I had used at one time on my Colt. My CD ECS is wearing the Kimber grips I removed from my Ultra Carry when I got CTC Laser grips for it. No problems.

Just to check, as you made me curious, I swaped the right side grip from my Kimber TLE to my Armscor, no problems, the hex screws even fit the Armscor bushings. It may need a bit of relief for the extended ambi safety (TLE has standard safety) since the TLE grip is a tad thicker. I wouldn't be surprised if Armscor was like Norinco with a metric thread on the bushing into the frame. Conversly, the Armscor grip fit perfectly on the TLE.

TLE mag catch droped right into the Armscor. Latches and releases mags fine, I've used the same CMC 10 rounders in both guns so I can't see how it'd not work.

Clearly the front and rear sight dove tails don't match between the Armscor and TLE :(

Now that I got them both in my lap, the trigger on the Armscor is just detectably lighter with a just detectable bit more overtravel than the TLE. Take up seems about the same although the Armscor has about twice the "up-down" play. My recollection was the Armscor had a good bit more overtravel, I suspect this extra up-down play accounts for that recollection when I shot them side by side as my index finger is a bit crooked curving downwards a few millimeters as I rotate it towards my palm (left hand is worse :) ). Either of these triggers are better than what came with any of my three Colts.

--wally.

wally
April 25, 2005, 11:02 PM
OK, I see it lacks front slide serrations :) Other than that I still know nothing about it. The RIA guns on the web site are left-right reversed in photshop to point in the same direction as the left side views of the other guns. A bit strange, but fairly common for some reason.

--wally.

BluesBear
April 26, 2005, 07:28 AM
I recently installed a genuine Colt magazine release in an Armscor 1911 and it dropped right in and functioned fine.

Steelharp
April 26, 2005, 07:57 AM
FWIW, my local shop has a $349 Armscor sitting right next to a $1,000 Kimber... and the Armscor trigger feels far superior. The Kimber is loaded with creep and grit; the Armscor has none.

Go figure.

HighVelocity
April 26, 2005, 10:29 AM
I recently installed a genuine Colt magazine release in an Armscor 1911 and it dropped right in and functioned fine.

I tried two different colt mag releases and niether was even close. :uhoh:

orangeninja
April 26, 2005, 03:44 PM
Could be he dropped it in the GI model?

wally
April 26, 2005, 10:33 PM
Assuming its the same HV as on another forum, he's posted a photo. Same Armscor enhanced as mine, except its the newer model with external extractor and "ramped" barrel.

I see three possiblilities here:
1) Armscor screwed-the-pooch with the external extractor switch(worst case, sure hope not!)

2) Fluke, QA/QC breakdown, gun should never have been sold.

3) Out of spec "Colt" parts.

I know #2 can happen as my 1911-A2 9mm widebody apparently came with an extractor they decided not to put into production. It broke on about shot 135 and when they sent me a free replacement extractor it was very different (which would suggest the change was wise :) ). I Emailed back a photo of what I had vs. what they sent, and was instructed to send the gun back. They are replacing the slide with what should be the final production and throwing in an extra hicap mag for my trouble. Hope to have it back next week. I loved it for the first 134 shots! Trigger was really fine on this gun.

--wally.

HighVelocity
April 26, 2005, 10:55 PM
Yep, same HV here. :D

I dunno about out of spec colt parts. Anyway, my Armscor is running like a champ now so I'm leaving it as is.
Tomorrow I'm sending in the warranty card.

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