[Skunkabilly]

I downloaded the new Beretta catalog and the Beretta Stampede looks pretty nice. I may get one just to open carry when I visit Jesse_H's church and scare his friends "No, he's from California...." :D :D

MSRP is from $450-650 depending on the standard or deluxe models. From 4.75 to 7.5 inch barrels in .357, .44-40 and .45 Long Colt. Not sure what caliber or barrel length I should get.

Which of these calibers has the highest reehaw factor? Should I Just get .357 Mag because it's the most readily available and I can jive with Twoblink's Cowboy Logistics (tm) when space aliens with blue helmets HALO into my backyard? .357 has it for practicality, but I'm not sure how practical an SA revolver is for me in the first place. I may get the 7.5" deluxe in .45 LC for nostalgia, if an Italian-American 2003 revolver is nostalgic in the first place?

Your thoughts?

Edited to add pic: http://berettausa.com/product/spotlight/images/spotlight_stampede.jpg

[Hal]

Reehaw factor?

.45 rong colt of course :D

(sorry couldn't help it)

Seriously though, very nice looking revolver.
Any idea how close it is to a Colt SAA?

[J Miller]

From this picture it apears to have a transfer bar action. No firing pin visible, trigger to far forward with hammer down. This would put it closer to the Colt Cowboy, or Rugers conversion action than a real Colt SAA.

[Smoke]

Reehaw!? 44-40

For cheapness 45lc. (locally anyway)

You serious about this skunk? 3 threads on the same topic? You can't put carbon fiber grips on that six shooter......

[jjmorgan64]

No Question 45 Colt

[Tamara]

As I've mentioned, Skunk, if it ain't "Tactical", then don't worry about the "logistics". Keep a box or two of ammo on hand for it, and you'll be fine.

Personally, they seem most "right" in .45 Colt. (.44-40 is also cool and period correct, but harder to find and more expensive) .357 Magnum cowboy clones always feel a little cheesy to me.

I handled the Stampedes for a bit at SHOT, and was impressed. Yeah, they're deluxe grade Ubertis/Colt Cowboys, but they're very nicely finished. I'd go with the charcoal-blued deluxe model; yum!

[Skunkabilly]

Personally, they seem most "right" in .45 Colt. (.44-40 is also cool and period correct, but harder to find and more expensive) .357 Magnum cowboy clones always feel a little cheesy to me.

I see your point Tamara, so in other words, in Skunkabilly Tactical parlance, it would be like a Benelli M1 Super 90 in 20ga; a .45 Long Colt would lack in the practical/logistical deptartment but make up for it with reehaw/nostalgical?

I handled the Stampedes for a bit at SHOT, and was impressed. Yeah, they're deluxe grade Ubertis/Colt Cowboys, but they're very nicely finished. I'd go with the charcoal-blued deluxe model; yum!

When I first saw them I thought they'd be $$$$ like the SA Colts I've seen around but $450-650 seems tempting.

So I take it 4 out of 5 cattle relocation personnel preferred .45 Long Colt?

[Jim March]

First question: do those actually have transfer bars (or a hammer block) or just a rebound device? Look at the base pin - see that second ring? If I'm not mistaken, that's a "safety" - you can hit the pin release button and push the base pin in "one hit deeper" to tie the gun up. Under GCA68 any imported gun must have an "safety" of *some* sort. If it's got that "base pin safety", it probably isn't actually safe to carry six-up.

As to Skunky's question: 45LC

Here's why: you hit the Brownell's catalog and buy a cylinder bore flex hone in 45cal. You use it on the cylinder bores. Then when you've shot the gun dry, you point it skyward, open the loading gate and spin the cylinder. The rounds DROP OUT, with no ejector stroke :cool:. The 45LC runs at low enough pressures to do this - the 38Spl/357s do NOT. That sort of "speed unload" is as "ubertactical" as things get with a piece like that...'specially when you then reload it with a plastic tube in your teeth that you blow through while spinning the cylinder, or thumb rounds in from a Desert Eagle 44Mag 10rd magazine :D.

With some practice, you can give the DA/speedloader crowd a run for their money.

Now add CF grips and a set of Tritium sights and go play IDPA :D:D:D...

[charleym3]

From the picture it doesn't appear that the firing pin is protruding, so it probably has a transfer bar of some sort. Hope so. Looks like fun.
Oh and if you mean Yeeeeeee-Haaaawwww! factor, .45Colt of course. I'm surprised that you need to ask.
:cool:

[tex_n_cal]

You need a tactical top break revolver:D

Here I found a photo of one for you...

[Dave Markowitz]

The .44-40 or .45 Colt have equivalent reehaw factors, IMO. It would be cheapest to shoot in .357, though, since you can run cheap .38s through it.

One factor is that if you get into reloading for it, .38/.357 or .45 Colt are easier to reload for than .44-40. The latter has thin case walls and it's hard to resize the cases without crushing the case mouth (been there, done that).

But get it in whichever caliber tickles you fancy, so you can be tactical in a 19th Century sort of way. :)

[Sarge]

Get the .45 Colt, Skunkster, unless you either don't reload or don't mind lubing cases. The .44-40 is a tapered case so carbide dies are out.

.357? Not a bad choice either. If period-correctness is not an issue, and you're not gonna hunt big hogs or bears with it, it's a great round. You can buy ammo anywhere and it's a breeze to reload.

BTW, we loved 'Goin' tactical".

[Johnny Guest]

Only reason I can think of wanting the .44-40 is the "traditional" deal about being able to use same ammo as for the .44 WCF rifle or carbine. Actually, this commonality of ammo is more fancied than real, if you explore the old literature. But for the modern tactical person, it might be nice to have.

Also, as metnioned above, the .44-40 is a problem to load extensively. Compared to it, the .45 C is a dream to load. I have little experience loading the .44 WCF myself, but have friends who do. It appears that I can load 250 .45 C in the time it takes them to load 100 of the .44s. There are also a lot more good bullets available for the .45 bore. It is a very real field and hunting piece.

Is the "reehaw factor" a regional thing? In my part of the country, as mentioned by charleym3, proper pronounciation and spelling is more like, "Yeeeeeee-Haaaawwww!"

Best,
Johnny

[Jim March]

Johnny, "reeee-haw!" is the battle cry of the Asian-American gunny :). It's a running joke among Skunky, Twoblink and others.

[Skunkabilly]

Is the "reehaw factor" a regional thing? In my part of the country, as mentioned by charleym3, proper pronounciation and spelling is more like, "Yeeeeeee-Haaaawwww!"


Reeeeeee-haaaaaawwwww = Chinese for Yeeeeeee-haaaawwww :D

Looks like I may have to go with the .45 Colt. It's not going to be a high round count gun like my Beretta is, so cost isn't that much of an issue.

Now I have to find a sharkskin rig for it.

[Jim Watson]

Much to my surprise, the Stampede is not just a dressed Uberti from Beretta's new subsidiary, but has been monkeyed with. From their site:

"Also, the feel and functioning is like the originals, with a multiple-click single-action hammer mechanism and a half-cock position that allows the cylinder to spin free. But unlike the originals, the Stampede features an innovative transfer-bar safety, making it possible to safely load all six chambers, and is constructed of modern, durable steels. We designed the Stampede to give you years of safe, trouble-free enjoyment - whether it be at the range, in the field or on the competitive Cowboy-action circuit."

But you still can't load six in CAS competition. Not important if you just want a centerfire plinker and never shoot an authentic gun that is not safe with six; but I don't load ANY single action full up.

Get the .45. Ammo for .44-40 is more expensive to buy and tedious to load, as others have said. A .357 SAA or copy is a good deal heavier due to the smaller holes in barrel and cylinder and the wonderful "live" balance in the hand is not there. This is less important to Cowboy speed shooters who want the lighter loads of the .38. Recoil from a 650 fps 125 grain bullet in that big gun is nonexistent.

Ref your cowboy rifle thread: The .45 Colt was not offered in 19th century rifles; but a modern .45 lever action shoots near enough like a .44 WCF and is convenient to feed from the same box of ammo as the sixgun. Friend of mine got a .45 in his real '73 .44 and had to take a lengthy timeout to clear it. There was a real life Texas Ranger who had that problem under Indian attack. He said unscrewing the sideplate of the rifle with a Bowie knife to get the .45 out was plenty exciting. Also reason enough to buy .44 revolvers to avoid the mixup again. There were other westerners who had .44-40's thin brass to split in the revolver which led them to favor the stouter .45 and keep their carbine shells straight.

[Jim March]

Ya, I found that same thing and came here to post.

Here's the link to the Beretta page on this:

http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/spotlight_stampede_main.htm

Daddy LIKE.

Look at the pics, and the labeled barrel lengths for each. Notice anything unusual?

That's right - the 5.5" tube has a full-length ejector rod running right out to the muzzle. The rod on both the 4.75" and 7.5" appears to be shorter.

If the pic on the 5.5" isn't a mistake (hard to tell because the scale of the photo is different from the 4.75") then that's damned interesting. It would give you a full-length stroke on a 45 or 357.

Loads for this critter:

In 45LC, it would NOT be safe to put the "Ruger ONLY!" +Ps in 'em. But you should be able to get away with at least modest diets of the various "personal defense" 45LCs available, such as Cor-Bon's 200grain JHP @ 1100fps:

http://www.cor-bon.com/ammo.html

That's about as hot as I'd go, given it's an SAA-sized frame.

Pro-load has an interesting idea: take the same 230grain Gold Dot and drive it at exactly the same speed it would be going in a 45ACP 5":

http://www.proload.com/specifications.htm

Or if you can't find those, Winchester Silvertips work OK in 45LC.

Do most of your practice in "Cowboy fodder" and yea, that'd do just fine.

Lesse, for woods carry or moderate hunting I doubt anybody's making a commercial load that would be "perfect" for 48-state conditions. That, you'd need custom. A 275 to 300grain hardcast with a big flat nose loaded mild to about 850-900fps shouldn't bust that thing or a Cimmaron/Uberti/ASM/Colt/Taurus, would stop a black bear fairly well :) and more importantly, could be used boar hunting at close range. I would think that somebody would brew up such a "woods load" for all the various 45LCs that aren't Rugers and are at least stronger than a breaktop or repro open-top cylinder conversion. If I was Weshoot2 I'd have something like that as a regular catalog item...:)

The moment I have some cash together I was going to get a Ruger but...this has *possibilities*. I'd want the same gun to be able to hunt California boar so comments on the sanity of such a "woods load" would be welcome. Given that the castings are Uberti, I'm assuming it's about as strong as that or an SAA.

[Frohickey]

I'd get the 45 Colt (there ain't no such thing as a 45 long Colt! :mad: ) :D

But I would get a Ruger Bisley Vaquero. No need to worry about hitting the half-cock in order to unload/reload. Just open the loading gate.
Also, polish the cylinder bores, as Jim March suggests, then you can empty it by opening the loading gate, and spinning the cylinder.

Haven't heard of the tube of cartridges to load with. Though, it sounds intriguing. Those tubes will be around 15 inches long with 6 rounds. You can hang a few on your belt, just don't kneel/crouch. :p

[Standing Wolf]

Chambered for the classic, .45LC, .44-40 and .357 Magnum cartridges, the Stampede is available in the original barrel lengths 4 ¾", 5 ½", and 7 ½". Choose between the rugged and traditional blue finish, the fancy Nickel version, or the elegant Deluxe model with charcoal blue and high-grade walnut grips. The frames of both the blue and Deluxe models feature the new Beretta Color-Case finish - our durable and particularly attractive interpretation of the traditional color-case look.

I don't even like single action revolvers, but I'm thinking about one of these.

[tex_n_cal]

As to the gun, short of a vintage Colt SAA (the real thing) or a S&W topbreak (also real, and real expensive in shooting condition), I think the US Firearms Rodeo is a good buy in a Colt SAA clone. The cylinder is a little larger than the Colts, so they are supposedly stronger. You can get US Firearms in fancy grades with extra polishing and case hardened colors, but they cost as much as a Colt.

I have a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt, and it is a sweet shooting pistol, but it's also a heavier gun, though startlingly accurate.

The Colts & clones in .45 Colt are well balanced for the power of the round, and have a really nice feel. The Rugers are better balanced for heavy loads, in my opinion.

I still wish Dad hadn't sold the original SAA he had in .41 Colt. It needed work, but would have been a neat project to restore.

[Skunkabilly]

How does recoil compare to say, a 1911?

Do they have tritium sights for these? Probably not?

[coonan357]

A SA Rolls in your hand , due to the shape/location of the grip , a .45 lc has some recoil to it , not too bad .. compaired to some of my 1911+p rounds almost equal , as for the choice of calibers .(John Wayne voice ) get the .45LC pilgrim , ahem ... skunky.

[Jim March]

Depends on what you load in it. Skunky, you're not that familiar with wheelguns, right? With autos, you're used to a particular caliber being not only a given maximum horsepower, it has a minimum too (in order to work the slide).

With wheelguns, that goes out the window. There's no minimum. The "Cowboy loads" are plain lead of modest power to fit in SASS/CAS rules...a 225 to 250grain @ 650/700fps is a pussycat. Call those "first level". The Cor-Bon or Proload defensive JHPs are hotter, and are basically the "2nd level" of this caliber, with the Ruger-only "3rd level" monsters (+P) running around 44Mag power levels or a shade above and must never be used in an SAA size like this Stampede.

The "2nd level" will still be pretty moderate. Just don't buy checkered grips or rubber grips; as stated already, the grip needs to "roll in your hand" to deal with the recoil that way. It sounds funky, but what happens is, recoil throws the hammer right under your thumb so as you drop the barrel back down you're cocking it. Feels very natural and can be VERY fast.

(Several companies do sell checkered SAA/Ruger grips. These are bought by people using the guns purely for SASS/CAS competition and running the mildest ammo, or 357 guns shooting 38spl or the like. They compromise recoil control.)

[Jim March]

On Tritium sights:

Tritium would be VERY custom. But on the front, not too hard - there are bases made that include a dovetail for a Tritium dot; go download Ashley's full catalog at:

DANG, they don't publish their full catalog in PDF anymore. That sucks! They HAVE a universal revolver base, you'd have to call 'em and ask for it.

Hmmm...they have a slightly longer front sight base for shotguns too. Go to this page:

http://www.ashleyoutdoors.com/shotgun_sight.html

See the one marked "Ramp Base Big Dot Tritium"? Well if you order that for a 410 shotgun, the barrel diameter will be close to a 45LC. But they also make a smaller one for revolvers.

What you do is, with the gun still stock you pick the load that you want to be "dead on", and you shoot it. The factory front sight will be too tall. That's normal. You file it down for the load you pick. In my case it'd be the Cor-Bon or the Proload mentioned above, depending on what I thought I could reliably score. Once the front is at the right height, measure it.

Now call Ashley (or rather, "XO sight systems" as they call themselves now). You tell 'em you have a revolver of "x" diameter barrel, and want a Tritium front setup with revolver base, and the height of the base and sight together must equal the height of the factory sight after you filed it. I recommend the small dot, myself, but you can do big dot too.

The good news: if the gun shoots well but is off in windage, you can correct for that as you're installing the new sight. Just take it to the range mounted with tape, scoot the whole base around until it shoots dead on, then mark that spot to silver-solder or otherwise attach the base.

The REAR sight is much more of a pain to improve and/or install Tritium in. For that, you've got to send the whole gun to a smith who can drill one or more holes for Tritium lamps, and install the lamp(s). There's a few guys doing this. If it was me, I'd do one dot below the rear sight channel, which would give you a sight picture of "dot over dot", much like a Heinie "Straight Eight". Both Heinie and Ashley/XO are talking about the advantages of a vertical dot alignment over a horizontal (like a three-dot). And just one Tritium lamp at the rear should be cheaper than two :D.

Here's a review of a fixed-sight revolver where the guy did just the front (large dot):

http://www.gunblast.com/XS_BigDot.htm

Here's what Heinie has to say about a two-dot-total layout:

http://www.heinie.com/slanteight.htm

[tex_n_cal]

A SAA in .45 Colt, shooting 250's at 800 fps will kick about like a .45 cal 1911 - similar weight and power. The revo does roll in the hand, so you have to get used to it, that way.

As to Tritrium sights...on a gun designed in 1873?

Unless you want to seriously devalue the pistol, I'd avoid it. Single Actions are for target shooting and hunting, nowadays. Keep your glow in the dark sights on modern autos.

[Jim March]

I dunno. I like how they feel and shoot, but I'm no "traditionalist". Tritium on o' these critters sounds way fun :).

In other news: Cimmaron's catalog shows the availability of 45ACP cylinders for their 45LC guns. Which are imported Uberti "non-transfer-bar" guns patterned on the SAA.

I wonder if those cylinders can be fitted to a Stampede?

[Skunkabilly]

OK what the heck is a transfer bar?

[Jim March]

Skunky:

Original 1873 Colt SAAs (which these are a close clone of) didn't have any safety whatsoever. If you lowered the hammer on a live round and were stupid enough to carry it that way, any bump to the hammer would go right down to the primer and K-boom.

It also made 'em tricky to load and unload - these guns are where we get the term "going off half cocked". These guns are ALSO where we get the term "on the money", because it was traditional to cram a rolled-up $20 bill in one cylinder and lower the hammer down on THAT rather than a live round. When you cocked it, it would roll to the next cylinder bore which of course would hold a real bullet.

So a classic SAA or close clone may be a "six shooter", but it's only safe to carry "five up".

Now, so far there have been three different SA guns styled after the SAA but possessing a "transfer bar" safety, a feature commonly found on DA revolvers. On a transfer bar gun, the hammer cannot lower down into contact with the firing pin at all; in order to go boom, not only must the hammer go forward, but the trigger has to be positively pulled to jam a piece of metal up between the hammer and firing pin, "transferring" energy to the pin. This piece of metal is the "transfer bar".

The previous "transfer bar SAs":

Ruger Blackhawk/Vaquero: super strong, much stronger than an original SA, but oversize and doesn't balance as well. Available as a 44Mag, or if you order it in 45LC it can use some crazy hot-loads that are in some cases out past normal 44Mag horsepower levels.

Ruger "Single Six": balanced and sized more like an SAA but only available in 22LR, 22Magnum and 32H&R Magnum; the frame size is too small for anything bigger although at least one gunsmith has done some 5-shot 38Spl conversions. In factory calibers it's a six-shot unless you send it off to one of a couple of loony gunsmiths converting 'em to 8-shot 22 :).

European American Arms "Bounty Hunter": sort of a "Rugeresque clone", also stronger than an SAA and bigger. Available as a 44Mag. Generally considered a bit crude compared to a Ruger, but not much worse.

Freedom Arms "Model 97": this is a super-high-quality SAA type; in order to increase the strength they sell it as a six-shot 357Mag or a five-shot in the bigger bores like 44Special and 45LC. Not quite as strong as a Ruger but with accuracy and mechanical precision that must be seen to be believed. Prices start at $1300 or so and go up from there. They simply reek of quality. Actual shipping specimens have been independently proven to exhibit MOA accuracy.

There's also been at least one SA type set up with a "hammer block", which is the OTHER method of doing a wheelgun safety and also borrowed from DA revolvers. Hammer blocks prevent the hammer from going forward unless the trigger is also being firmly pulled:

Freedom Arms "Large Frame": BIG gun, handles the 454Casull and 475Linebaugh "handcannon class" calibers, double or more the power of a 44Mag. Also capable of ridiculously fine accuracy (most can shoot sub-4" groups at 100 yards, some even better).

(There's also that horrible "Heritage Rough Rider" POS that has a *manual* safety switch to the left of the hammer that blocks the hammer.)

-----------------

OK, back to the Stampede. It will apparantly be another transfer bar gun, safe to load and carry six-up, can't go off if dropped, BUT for the first time with exactly the same size, handling, weight, grip compatibility and caliber class as a genuine Colt SAA. Many "near clones" of the SAA have hit the market, but none had a transfer bar or hammer block safety.

That's why we're so jazzed with this thing :).

If you built a time machine and went back to about 1880 wearing a couple of these and showed one to a period gunsmith, he'd look at it and go "oh, a Colt SAA, no biggie" - until he cocked it, looked down into the area between hammer and frame and would then go "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?" :D.

[MrAcheson]

As others have said, .44-40 (.44 wcf) is probably the last choice. Its expensive and its only real advantage over .45 long colt is that the thinner brass creates a better seal with Black Powder. I doubt that will be an issue for you.

.45 long colt is classic. I wouldn't go hunting with standard pressure .45 long colts though which is all you should put through a standard SAA frame. .45acp is ballistically similar because browning designed it to be that way.

.357 is cheap to shoot (with .38sp) and powerful. Its utterly non-historic though. The balance might not be quite as nice, but balance on revolvers is a very subjective thing. Mention SAA barrel lengths on the SASS wire and you'll see what I mean.

[Skunkabilly]

That's why we're so jazzed with this thing .

Hehe...really, so it's practical too? I just wanted it cuz it's purrrrdy....

"WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?" .

"They're carbon fiber grips."
"Come again?"
"Never mind...just fix my gun." :D

[Frohickey]

As to Tritrium sights...on a gun designed in 1873?

How about lasergrips instead? Only useful for the first round or so, if you are shooting blackpowder. :D

[Johnny Guest]

Johnny, "reeee-haw!" is the battle cry of the Asian-American gunny . It's a running joke among Skunky, Twoblink and others. Oh. Sorry.





never mind.




Guess I just wasn't paying attention . . .:D

Johnny

[Jim March]

I found a good page on 45LC load data from a reliable source:

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt45lc.htm

Note that it's divided into "stuff for Colt SAAs and clones", "Black Powder" (which can also work in SAA types, if you like a lotta soot!) and "Ruger ONLY monsters".

As you can see, in the SAA or clones you can drive a 255grain hardcast at 1,000fps. That's about 570ft/lbs energy, almost certainly enough to stop a California-sized boar (under 300lbs depending some on area), take deer or even defend against a Black Bear. Granted, somewhat marginal but not much worse than a 357 pushing a 180 at 1,200fps for 576ft/lbs.

http://www.naaminis.com/energy.html

I see no reason the Stampede couldn't do "woods duty" in the lower 48. Alaska or other big bear country, NO, of course not.

[twoblink]

I will probably not believe I typed this in the morning..

But isn't there a revolver that shoots..

45-70??? I seem to recall there was a few made... or am I wrong?

YeeHaaaw! --> Chinglish = Ree Haww!

Glock --> Chinglish = Grock :D

[Tamara]

The Magnum Research BFR is chambered in .45-70.

The Century Model 100 has been available in .30-30, .375 Winchester, .444 Marlin, .45-70, .50-70 and .50-110.

I think conversion cylinders were available for Thunder Fives, too, but you couldn't get me to cap off a .45-70 in one of those things on a bet; I'm allergic to shrapnel.

[Oracle]

I'd get the .45LC. That's the caliber I got for my Ruger Vaquero. For SD loads, I use the Speer 230gr. Gold Dot, and load it to around 900fps. The recoil isn't that bad at all, due to the shape and weight of the Vaquero.