IDPA and Popular Pistols


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GSMD Fan
April 25, 2005, 10:00 PM
While at the Fiesta match in San Antonio something occured to me.

IDPA matchs are pretty much full of Glock of one flavor or another and 1911s of one flavor or another.
My question is other manufactuers seem to be selling plenty of guns (i.e Sig, Berreta, Ruger, SW, CZ etc.) Why don't you see more of them at matchs?

It seems there are a great many guns not getting worked in IDPA.
Is it that folks feel Glock and 1911 are clearly superior IDPA guns? Superior carry guns?
Or your IDPA shooters being a minority of pitol shooters just happens to use those types?
Does Glock really own that large a market share?
Obviously the vast majority of pistol owners/CHL holders do not compete. But why are all those that do carry those types?
Do any of you folks carry one gun but always compete with another for IDPA?

Not trying to start a "my gun is better then your gun" thread, just wondering why the great disparity.

Any guesses?

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GEM
April 25, 2005, 10:11 PM
I can't help you - I was there with my Glock 19. :)
Did you like the blind stage?

Lots of real carry guns are little guys. I know one SO there who carries a Keltec P-32 most of the time. I carry a SW 642 a great deal.

At the match, most of the folks wore tac vests. How many of us go to work and the store in one?

I did see though a CZ and an HK.

Why - Glocks are not known for jamming, the price is right. 1911s are for enthusiasts.

But the BBQ was great.

GSMD Fan
April 25, 2005, 10:59 PM
I luved the blind stage.
I think every match should be blind.
However, that is tough to do.
Some may argue the target layout, I would not.
The stage was fun, exciting and challenging.

Yeah I know about the TAC vests. IDPA matches have never been known for fashion sense.

I would never argue against a Glock or 1911.

It just seems like an inordinate amount of market share based on what else is out there.

Dr.Who
April 26, 2005, 12:18 AM
I guess that I am one of the norm.... I shoot an Glock 17 in SSP and ESP, A Colt 1911 comp model in CDP, A Smith and Wesson 686 in SSR and A 625 in the new revolver class, ESR.

Why the Glock? originaly never thought I would own a plastic gun... Saw one, Friend had one, shot another one, and never saw a failure. Found mine as a used one with High Caps (plus back in the days of the ban, 1992) at a great price... Now I own a plastic gun, that functions like a timex. My only problem is the awareness of the grip angle difference between the 1911 and the G17. When I switch guns I must compensate point and shoot style and watch the front sight to get my muscle memory back for the gun's, point of aim. For me the G17 is like greased lighten to load. Plus I load for everything else I shoot except; 9mm. It is too cheap of a buy; now, so it is fun to shoot and not chase brass, once in a while.

Why a Colt 1911? Have a military model from 1918 that I was shoot'n and is getting tried and would need some work if it were going to be shoot in competition. If I shoot it without a glove, it bites me between the thumb and finger webbing. A beaver tail would fix it. However, I hate the though of tweaking a gun with a history. So bought this Colt Comp model Never looked back and love to shoot it. This is my low or no light gun with night sites.

Why S&W 625? It is a kick in the pants to shoot. Fast to reload and recover brass. The gun weight helps keeps the muzzel rise down. Helps me keep my cowboy single action thumb in working order. Yes, I fire it alot as a single action. The saying going slow to go fast applys here. The split second that it takes to thumb cock the revolver, allows you to recover from the little muzzel rise and place your shot in the zero ring.

Why S&W 686? Well I started in IDPA using a 6 inch Colt .38 and a 6 inch 686. They changed the rule on barrell size. Found and started shooting a 625 for the before mentioned reasons. Now they split up the class for revolvers, found a used 686 4 inch barrel without a lock, I'm going to town... 686 will allow me to shoot either .357 or .38 brass if needed. Plus being able to shoot .357, means that it is a beefer gun... At least in my opinion, it means a longer life.

As for the blind stages, Our club does alot of "No Walk Through" stages. IDPA, although a game, trys to place somewhat "real life" situation for you solve with in the confines of the IDPA rules. The saying we use is "In real life there are no walk throughs, so train and be prepared". So the more blind stages the better, they get you thinking on the spot... :)

As for the TAC vests... I have two problems. If you wear one in public, I know your hidding something if there is no press tag on your pocket, a camera around your neck, or fly rod in your hand. The second kind of goes with the first, they look out of place and not what someone would wear and not be noticed. To me a better choice is a sport jacket, cardigan sweater, flannel shirt over a T shirt with the flannel not tucked in or front buttoned, or in the waist band carry. In my opinion, the Idea of conceal carry is to blend in with your surroundings and not draw attention to yourself. To me a royal-robins tac vest when worn in most public environments screams "I'm hidding something, somewhere..." Just my opinion.... I use the Flannel shirt or Sport Jacket method in IDPA. ;)

And If I could carry in this state I would carry a Mustang sized gun...

faustulus
April 26, 2005, 04:16 AM
Around here we see a lot of different types. Berettas are quite popular (though Glock still holds a nice advantage)
One thing the glocks have going for them is the trigger, which can be lightened to 2lbs with ease and they can compete in SSP. On top of that, Glocks are just generally popular.
(I am a weird on I shoot IDPA and IPSC production with my CZ 85 Combat)
1911 is popular for similar reasons. I can be modified to have a very light trigger and you can pretty much customize them to your shooting style.

OF
April 26, 2005, 10:42 AM
We get all kinds at our matches: people shooting their carry gun, people shooting their 'IDPA' guns, people shooting their gun they carry occasionally but really bought for competition, you name it. What you don't see alot of is people shooting the small-frame 'carry' guns...somehow they just don't seem to want to pull out that G26 or KelTec on match day ;)

While Glocks and 1911's are certainly the top two on the range, we see alot of variety in guns overall. Had one shooter with a beautiful 2-tone BHP this past weekend. XD's, Beretta's, Sig's, wheelguns.

- Gabe

HSMITH
April 26, 2005, 08:03 PM
I too saw mostly Glocks and 1911's at the last IDPA match, with a few Sig's thrown in. I was shooting a Glock, my bullet order didn't come in so I didn't have any ammo loaded for my 1911 LOL!!!

I have put a lot of ammo through a CZ-75 and to say I am impressed is a HUGE understatement, IMO it is THE gottahavit gun in full sized 9mm. Too bad prices have gone up 25%+ in the last year, every time I have a little roll something else comes up and I still don't have a CZ-75.

Why do most IDPA shooters have Glocks and 1911's? IMO, for what it cost you to read, is that the 1911 platform is one of the easiest to shoot well of any made combined with a big bullet and decent power, and the Glock is a no nonsense workhorse that you can shoot fairly easily and count on day in and day out. Two schools of thought, but they comprise about 90% of the market in my area.

spitfiresubgun
April 27, 2005, 11:16 AM
http://www.pixhost.com/pixg/gotvett/uzi-ipsca.jpg

When I first started competitive shooting in the late "80's, I used my Series 80 Colt Gold Cup. Nice, Accurate and Reliable, But the single stack mag lacks a little when competeing with the mega round mags in 9 and 40 cal. So I geabbed a rule book pulled the UZI out of the safe. Did a little tweaking added a few extras picked up some mags. And made my way to the Thursday night match.

You never heard a bunch of gun loving guys bitch and complain, how it was illegal to use the UZI. Well I slapped down the rule book. Opened it to where the applicable rules were for holster and mag length were got my 25 and 20 round mags out and eventhough the 25 rounders was of legal length, I used the 20 rounders. I had to make my own holster, cut off the flaps from some older Mixon 1911 police mag pouches and shoved the UZI mags into it.

They had no choice but to allow it. Yet they had nothing to worry about, It was no where near a race gun. But Shooting a 9mm handgun wasn't my strong suit. I did it for a long while because it was and still is a conversation piece for the club in South Florida. I did have a Magnaport, dual port done to the barrel. A trigger shoe to take up the slack of the trigger. A Tasco Pro Point II on top. And when the was a rifle match Id pull out the UZI Carbine Mod B
http://www.pixhost.com/pixg/gotvett/aauzi1.jpg

Current Competition Shooter Spitfire Carbine F/A Subgun

http://www.pixhost.com/pixg/gotvett/1aspitfirenew-a.jpg

Mikul
April 27, 2005, 01:04 PM
The 1911 gets a boost because there's an entire class (CDP) devoted to it. Glocks work well in SSP because they have about the best trigger pull in that class. The DA pull on most guns is terrible while Glock's striker is mostly pre-cocked and much smoother. SSR is dominated by .45 revolvers with moonclips because the power-factor is pitifully low and the short stubby cartridges in moon clips reload faster.

ESP is where the action is. I see all kinds of stuff in that division: H&K's, Beretta Elites, CZ-75s, 9mm 1911s, and everything else that might work.

armoredman
April 27, 2005, 02:16 PM
USPSA and IPSC are trying to get CZ excluded, at least in Europe, and partially in the US, by banning the CZ Tactical and CZ SP01 from the Production Class, due to full length dust covers, but still allow Glock competetion pistols as production guns. CZ has pulled thier sponsorship in disgust.

kbheiner7
April 27, 2005, 03:25 PM
My local IDPA matches are probably 60-65% 1911s, 25% Glocks and the rest a mix of other autos and wheelguns.

I think the 1911 and Glocks are so popular because they can both fire many, many rounds without service or repair. There are a number of other good carry weapons, but I don't believe they were designed to shoot several hundred rounds at a time and see tens of thousands of rounds, even a hundred thousand rounds plus in a lifetime.

pax
April 27, 2005, 03:48 PM
...somehow they just don't seem to want to pull out that G26 or KelTec on match day.
I shoot my G26 in the informal matches around here. I'm not the only one who does it, but it does seem to be a bit unusual.

I know darn good and well that even though I finish in the upper fourth of the pack, I'm never going to win a match that way. Right now I'm shooting better than I ever have before, but I'm still a long way from being able to run with the big dogs and never will if I don't change my equipment.

I don't care about that. The truth is, I get a big kick out of being just a girl with just a little G26 who gives any kind of competition to the guys with their 1911s. :D

Oh, about the variety of guns. The thing Glocks & 1911s have in common is consistent trigger pulls, no DA/SA transitions to master. Of course there are lots of other guns out there that aren't DA/SA -- but I think the DA/SA guys mostly switch to 1911s or Glocks on match day.

pax

faustulus
May 1, 2005, 08:30 AM
USPSA and IPSC are trying to get CZ excluded, at least in Europe, and partially in the US, by banning the CZ Tactical and CZ SP01 from the Production Class, due to full length dust covers, but still allow Glock competetion pistols as production guns.
Not really.
The SP01 was outlawed (along with the P01) but the SP has been reinstated until the world shoot. The other CZs were never outlawed and have always been production legal.
And while the USPSA allows G34 and 35 it is outlawed under international rules.
The CZ tactical is just a 75 with a green frame.

OF
May 1, 2005, 08:40 PM
spitfiresubgun: you may have caught some flak at the match for it, but I think shooting an UZI pistol for USPSA is just about the coolest thing I've ever heard. :)

Pax: sic 'em! :)

- Gabe

Joe D
May 2, 2005, 10:04 AM
Competition brings out what works. The reason you don't see many pistols other than 1911 or Glocks is they are just too hard to shoot fast and accurately. The Sigs and HKs have a major flaw - high bore axis. These guns have more muzzle flip than the Glocks or 1911s.
If I could not shoot a Glock or 1911 I would be shooting a CZ75 SA. The BHP is a nice looking gun that sits well in your hand, but fast reloads are very difficult with this gun. I know I tried shooting one in IDPA for 6 months.
The 3rd most popular gun around here is the XD. I could shoot this gun except for one issue. The slide release rests right under one of my thumbs. I could not get the slide to lock back during a match.

TonyB
May 3, 2005, 01:21 PM
I shoot my Glock 17 mostly..but I started out with a Taurus pt99....sometimes I wish I still had it..I always like when a guy with a "cheap" gun is competetive,or even wins...If I ever get my Rossi/Taurus 357 back from the factory,I'll be using it this summer(till I get good with it or sick of trying)....one guy that we shoot with uses a different gun every week(he has a butt load of them)..once he used the same gun 2 weeks in a row and we were shocked :uhoh:

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