Gangs w/full-auto Glocks--for real or urban legend?


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benEzra
April 26, 2005, 12:02 PM
http://www.kpoa.org/officer_safety.asp

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Waffen
April 26, 2005, 12:19 PM
I call shennanigans on that.

DontBurnMyFlag
April 26, 2005, 12:20 PM
haha for a second I thought you meant that gangs got their hands on some G18 select fire glocks. Those are rare and expensive.

Even if the gangs convert their weapons, they are still stuck with 10-17rd magazines. No California store sells those 33rd glock factory mags, and I doubt the street is full of them. I doubt that alot of gangs are doing this. Im sure a few are, but why would they want to share their "trade secret" with rival gangs. Sad thing is, while their drivebys will still suck with accuracy, they now have a more concealable weapon than the mac10/11 and will probably hit more bystanders. :banghead:

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 12:21 PM
At first I thought it might just be a filed down sear (possible in a glock? dunno) but the video makes it appear to be controllable. I notice they didn't site any sources for the gangs with full auto glocks.

I've seen several pistols that were capable of this with a conversion. The beretta, the 1911, and probably several others. Would be fun to shoot.

Actually, wasn't there an episode of mail call that highlighted the full auto glock? It wasn't a conversion, but was factory. Let me poke around to see if I can find it. Unless someone knows off the top of their head the episode. I'm sure someone does.

I'll be back.

VARifleman
April 26, 2005, 12:24 PM
Did you all notice that they said this:

police are treating any Glock they encounter as a fully automatic firing weapon.

I sense that this kind of attitude could be used against those of us who use Glocks for carry. :eek:

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 12:26 PM
Found it, the Glock 18. Don't know if that's what he's shooting in the video or not...but I suspect it is.

http://www.glock.com/g18.htm

Chawbaccer
April 26, 2005, 12:32 PM
Thats not the way the homeboys hold their Glocks........................

Lots (most?) of Semi-autos can be converted to full auto, but since the gun wasn't designed to be full auto it will get the snot beat out of them by firing in a full auto mode.

redneck2
April 26, 2005, 12:34 PM
If I understand correctly, a conventional Glock is basically a "double-action only"....that is, you cock the pistol by squeezing the trigger. Part of the Glock "four safeties" deal. Full auto would be impossible. On 1911's, the slide cocks the hammer and they can go full auto.

Full auto sounds cool in a pistol, but it isn't. Takes a lot of control to hold the muzzle down. I suspect it'd be extremely difficult with conventional grips. Another myth that the unknowing suck onto and expound without knowing the facts.

Just saw a thing on FOX news about how vulnerable chemical plants are. The reporter says "yeah, man, they (chemical companies) aren't doing anything..."

I work for a chemical company. Go ahead and try to get into one of our plants. Sound and motion detectors, closed circuit IR cameras, razor wire, and passcard entry plus photo ID.

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 12:35 PM
Ok, just watched the video again. That gun has an external hammer. You can see it clearly 9 seconds into the video. I'm sure no gang banger can do THAT conversion in less than 15 seconds!

edited to add: So if it has an external hammer, what is it? It's not a Glock 18.

svtruth
April 26, 2005, 12:36 PM
Probably a good thing the DEA doesn't carry them.

redneck2
April 26, 2005, 12:40 PM
Yeah, but all bad guns are Glocks. They're black, evil, and have a name that's easy to pronounce and remember, and sounds evil.

How many of the sheeple know what a 1911 is? Besides, a 1911 or Beretta doesn't sound nearly as evil as Glock.

cidirkona
April 26, 2005, 12:42 PM
I heard somewhere (on here maybe) that the converted glocks are easy to spot because they'll have a dremmelled out hole in the side of the frame and that they were designed well enough that you can't modify them without a degree of obviousness...

-Colin

Owen
April 26, 2005, 12:47 PM
That's not a hammer on the back of the slide in that video, it is a replacement back plate.

USMC_2674
April 26, 2005, 12:47 PM
There are quite a few different ways to convert a Glock to fire full-auto.

Redneck2, you show your ignorance when you state that is impossible for a Glock to be impossible. Then again you show it when you say it would be "extremely difficult" to control. Full-auto glocks are easy to control with a LITTLE practice. They are easy to use if you take the time to train. Who is the one perpetuating myths now? If you haven't fired a Glock in full-auto, shut your trap about how "difficult" it is to control.

As for a Glock 18, they come from the factory with a selector switch on the slide. You can also buy drop in kits to make them full-auto for a few hundred bucks if you are a PD or military buyer.

Some of the conversions have the selector on the back of the slide, while others have them on the side. And you aren't just limited to Glock 17 conversions to an 18... you can convert ANY glock pistol to fire full-auto with the conversion pieces. I have personally fired a Glock 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 26, and 34 converted to full-auto. The 20, 21, and 22 are much more difficult to master, but it could be done. The 9mm's were pretty controllable with a little practice.

If I could, I would carry a FA Glock 19 as my carry piece. I can easily get 3-5 round bursts with a single trigger pull (did it in the first two mags of practice), and I have the option of using it semi too.

Anyways, please please please don't spout crap when you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, and the Glock 18 holds up to full-auto fire just fine.

And it isn't a Hammer on that Glock, that is the selector switch.

Semper Fidelis!

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 12:57 PM
Owen, you're right. Whatever is on the back of that slide isn't a hammer. I had to enlarge the video and watch it slowly several times, but it is attached to the slide. Wouldn't a selector switch be on the frame somewhere?

USMC_2674, yes we are ignorant to some aspects of the full auto world. That's why we're discussing it, not necessarily spouting crap. I personally want to learn more and I would be stupid not to ask.

cidirkona
April 26, 2005, 12:59 PM
I don't think the conversions the police bulletin is talking about are the expensive, registered conversion peices though... I think they mean "cut here, make this peice" ghetto-fied conversions that are probably dangerous and uncontrollable - not to mention illegal.

-Colin

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 12:59 PM
Forgot to add: Regardless of what makes it full auto, could that conversion be done by a gang banger in 15 seconds for $10.00 as the article states? I think that is the original crux of the post.

El Tejon
April 26, 2005, 01:00 PM
I first read this memo in 1995 when I was new to law enforcement. It is institutionalized paranoia, codified to strengthen budget proposals from then until the end of fiscal years entirely.

Kansas? "Yo, yo, Corndog. Whaz dat wit dat gat? It'z gotz da switch!" :D

redneck, full auto Glocks take a little training, but by no means "impossible." Some THR members have experience with converted G18s being used against them. Maybe they can share their experience as to it's effectiveness. :eek:

BTW, I'm ignorant of just about everything, just ask any woman at random! :D :evil:

Wingshooter
April 26, 2005, 01:03 PM
You have a point cidirkona, but isn't this akin to misinformation on their part if they are describing one thing and showing another?

When I was a kid I had a friend file down the sear on his .22 Marlin model 60. Sure it was full auto-ish, but unreliable at best. You never knew when it was going to fire and when it would stop. Not exactly something I would throw in my waistband and carry around with me.

USMC_2674
April 26, 2005, 01:05 PM
Wingmaster,

My reply really wasn't meant to be pointed at you necessarily.

It was mostly for the one making claims of something he obviously doesn't have a clue about, Redneck2.

The Glock 18, and all the conversion devices that I am aware of all alter the Glock to fire full-auto in the slide. Most of them do so by altering the backplate such as on the one in the video. I have never seen one that does so by altering the frame...

Anyways, good luck.

USMC_2674
April 26, 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh and here is just one of the companies that make the selector's to drop into any glock.

www.fss-g.com

OH, and THAT video came off the above site. :)

Augustwest
April 26, 2005, 02:10 PM
If you haven't fired a Glock in full-auto, shut your trap about how "difficult" it is to control.

My, but aren't we travelling the High Road?!? :rolleyes:

ckyllo
April 26, 2005, 02:12 PM
I doubt that the one in the video is a gangbanger special glock. I have seen that video before but it was called glock 18 video. I beleive at that time the web site said somthing about the guy shooting was either GSSF or Glock shooting team. but I may be wrong since it was a few years ago that I saw it. I would like to see gangbanger conversion but I am sure the police wouldnt let anyone near it for fears of people converting a Glock to full auto in a few seconds, quick and easy, and with cheap common parts.

Dionysusigma
April 26, 2005, 02:41 PM
<Giggles uncontrollably at the delightful thought of a FA Glock 20> :D

Interesting... the site informs the viewer that their product is for LEOs and such-and-such only. And then this: "Work to repeal the applicable portion of Public Law 99- 308 or seek something that is transferable." :)

We're working on it...

Justin
April 26, 2005, 02:52 PM
1) The Glock in the video is not a Glock 18.

2)It is a Glock that has had a Phoenix Firearms, Inc "Fire Selector System" installed on it. (This is the company that USMC_2674 posted a link to.)

3)Evidently the Kansas Peace Officers Association ganked the file directly from the Phoenix Firearms website. They didn't even have the common courtesy to give a credit as to where they took the video from, which leads me to wonder if...

4)The Kansas Peace Officers Association have broken Intellectual Property law in their attempt to whip up hysterical paranoia.

Henry Bowman
April 26, 2005, 02:55 PM
I looked up their patent (5,705,763) which issued in 1998 (filed in 1996). It shows it to be a simple device that locks the striker in a forword position after the initial trigger pull and then releases the striker when the trigger is released. In other words, it goes into full slam-fire mode.

It would be simple to construct (the patent tells you exactly how to do it) and I'd bet that patent infringement liability is the least of a gang banger's worries.

I don't know how to post a copy of the patent here. If you want it or a link to the US Patent and Trademark Office online version, PM me.

which leads me to wonder if... As a state subdivision, they are probably protected by sovereign immunity from a claim of copyright infringement -- as well as a "fair use" claim.

jefnvk
April 26, 2005, 03:08 PM
Full-auto glocks are easy to control with a LITTLE practice. They are easy to use if you take the time to train. Who is the one perpetuating myths now? If you haven't fired a Glock in full-auto, shut your trap about how "difficult" it is to control.

I watched a friend shoot a full-auto converted Glock 17, along with a few other people. Uncontrollable is about the word I'd use to describe the situtation (besides hilarious :p ). Can you, with practice, learn to shoot it well? I have no doubt. Is the average gangbanger going to practice? Probably not. Even if he were stupid enough to try to, what do you think the chances of him getting caught practicing are? Probably pretty good.

People who haev hardly used a handgun, let alone a full auto handgun, are going to have a handful with an 18.

AZ Jeff
April 26, 2005, 03:33 PM
I have shot a REAL Glock 18 several times. I find the pistol fairly controllable. Then again, I have fired MANY pistols of a variety of power levels in my 52 years, and a number of full-auto arms, so I kinda know what to expect.

In the hands of a practiced shooter, a full-auto Glock is easy to control. Two and 3 shot bursts onto a USPSA or IDPA type target are easy to achieve at 12 meters.

rem
April 26, 2005, 03:47 PM
The patent can easily be found on the US Patent Office website:

Fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=3&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,705,763&OS=5,705,763&RS=5,705,763)

whm1974
April 26, 2005, 05:53 PM
4)The Kansas Peace Officers Association have broken Intellectual Property law in their attempt to whip up hysterical paranoia.

I think this has to do more with getting funding for PDs then anything else. Either that they are trying to get Glocks banned in Kansas.

I doubt that Glocks are really that easy to convert with "$10 homemade parts". For somebody with a machine shop maybe. Most gangbangers....

I also doubt that police in Florida and California are treat any Glock they see as an automacite weapon.

-Bill

akviper
April 26, 2005, 06:12 PM
We have encountered home converted Title II firearms over the years. Usually is done by intellect challenged (is that the high road way) individuals wanting to have fun at the range or compact storage of their boat or car gun. I have heard about illegal home made conversions since I was a kid so it certainly isn't new. There are many innovative, simple, and inexpensive ways to convert many common firearms to full auto. I suspect somebody in the PR department was looking to get some press time and decided to create an issue. Any gang bangers in the area that weren't considering illegal full auto conversions are probably thinking about it now.

SLCDave
April 26, 2005, 06:17 PM
Evidently the Kansas Peace Officers Association ganked the file directly from the Phoenix Firearms website.

Justin, Not only did you say ganked, you typed ganked! You're my hero this week!

Joejojoba111
April 26, 2005, 07:36 PM
Justin, it's not breaking the law if they're doing it to enforce the law... And, "Wat you gonna do 'bout it, huh?"

Here it is, that is cool stuff! I'm surprised the company hasn't been run out of town yet, and by town I mean, well, the continent. I couldn't get the images to work, but maybe later.

"United States Patent 5,705,763
Leon January 6, 1998

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun


Abstract
A fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun is provided. The system is mountable on a reciprocating slide of the gun and into operative relationship with the trigger bar of the gun. A member of the selector system is movable between forward and rearward longitudinal positions. The forward longitudinal position allows the member to assume an activating longitudinal position for automatic operation of the gun. The rearward longitudinal position prevents the member from assuming its activating longitudinal position, thereby effecting semi-automatic operation of the gun. The member repetitively contacts a contact area of the trigger bar as it reciprocates with a reciprocating slide of the gun during automatic operation. Further, the device is easily installed and removed from the reciprocating slide depending on user requirements."

The Armed Bear
April 26, 2005, 08:04 PM
what is public law 99- 308 ?

thorn726
April 26, 2005, 08:15 PM
although everyone here is deathly afraid of hanguns, seems like every other week someone is busted for using either an SKS or AK type rifle on somebody.
last week it was a 14 year old with SKS.

they definitely have full autos, but it seems like they are mostly used for gang war type stuff only.

really, i am always suprised for how people talk, the places i go , how few guns i have actually seen in use (none, altohugh i have seen a few people post shooting)

REALITY= majority of felons with guns have them for personal protection, not for robbing folks, so they really dont come out all that often.

armed robbers- well those people are in a whole other world, i know little to nothing about that mentality.
HA- those people are never on the street more than one or two crimes, (generally). prison makes them nuts. it will never make sense to me when adding a gun adds 5-10 years to the sentence.

Rockstar
April 26, 2005, 09:22 PM
The patented device referred to in this thread doesn't "lock the firing pin forward." It trips the trigger bar between the connector and the cruciform, every time the slide goes into battery.

It really is extremely simple to convert a Glock to full auto fire. I don't know if gangs are really using converted Glocks or not, but the technology for doing so doesn't require an M.I.T. degree.

BluesBear
April 26, 2005, 09:57 PM
Now how in the world can ANYONE watch that video and then expound that a full auto handgun is "impossible" to control?


Full auto sounds cool in a pistol, but it isn't.Hell yes it is! :D


Takes a lot of control to hold the muzzle down.No more control than shooting a .357 magnum J-frame. :scrutiny:


I suspect it'd be extremely difficult with conventional grips.Looks like the guy in the video was having no problem with them. :cool:

Another myth that the unknowing suck onto and expound without knowing the facts.It appears that the knowledge of facts isn't limited to the "unknowing". :rolleyes:

Kevlarman
April 26, 2005, 10:26 PM
Tada!
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24059&stc=1

Looks quite simple to install once you can get your hands on such a device, and provided it is legal where you live.

Commissar Gribb
April 26, 2005, 11:05 PM
I wonder if the Glock corperation knows that "dremel" is a copywrited name.

GRB
April 26, 2005, 11:13 PM
I would hate to be on the receiving end of one of these even with a 15 round mag. To have all 15 come out as quickly as they would could be pretty bad. Even if the shooter was not great at muzzle control, if he started low and ended up high, chances are you would be hurting. Of course this goes likewise for any full auto firearm. The thing about the pistol as compared to an AK is the ability to more easily conceal it and I guess that makes it a scarier weapon to some.

I agree with those who believe this would be an easy conversion to make. I read up on it about a year ago, and visited a few web sites wherein parts were offered. They looked like simply parts that someone could make in a well equipped home shop. nOw I am no mechanic or metal worker, so that is just my guess. To date I have seen one video made by law enforcement of an officer shooting one of the converted Glocks and one of an unidentified person shooting another. In about an hour or so when this one downloads, I'll watch it too. Darned phone modems.

Best regards,
Glenn B

whm1974
April 26, 2005, 11:25 PM
In about an hour or so when this one downloads, I'll watch it too. Darned phone modems.

I feel your pain....

-Bill

natedog
April 26, 2005, 11:36 PM
I'm curious, how does the factory Glock 18 work? Is the pistol still have the striker half-tensioned by the slide, half tensioned by the trigger? That doesn't seem feasible, of course.

antsi
April 26, 2005, 11:49 PM
----------quote---------------
police are treating any Glock they encounter as a fully automatic firing weapon
------------------------------

That's good. Up until now, Kansas police officers were just ignoring gang-bangers blazing away with Glocks. You had the gang-bangers shooting at nuns and orphans, shooting up the preschools, shooting up the elderly in nursing homes, even shooting cops left, right, and center, and nobody took the problem seriously. The attitude was pretty much, "let drug-addled teenage sociopaths armed with deadly weapons be drug-addled teenage sociopaths armed with deadly weapons."

Fortunately, now that they know Glocks can be converted to full-auto, they're going to start taking it seriously when they see a gang-banger brandishing one.

bogie
April 27, 2005, 12:02 AM
You know, I've shot maybe four mags (outta JR's Glock...), and I want one...

Just can't afford one...

Very easy to control, with a little practice. It helps to already be familiar with recoil and trigger/burst control - for example, I have a hard time with "rock'n'roll" shooting... I just naturally do 3-4 shot bursts, since I spent so much range time doing that...

c_yeager
April 27, 2005, 03:45 AM
I suppose the real question that needs to be asked is "does it matter?". Is a fully automatic Glock really that much more of a threat than a semi-auto?

police are treating any Glock they encounter as a fully automatic firing weapon.

What the heck? So, ff someone pulled a Glock 19 on one of these guys in the past would the officer have said "AHA thats a semiautomatic, you cant hurt me!" and now they are actually scared of them? How is their policy regarding fully automatic weapons different from their policy concerning semiautomatic weapons?

spartacus2002
April 27, 2005, 06:56 AM
Anyways, please please please don't spout crap when you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

And a BIG High Road Welcome to you too!!!

From the Code of Conduct: 4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

rick_reno
April 27, 2005, 09:38 AM
Watch out - possession of a screwdriver, a sturdy key and a GLOCK pistol could prompt a visit from the BATF. ;)
A police officer friend of mine in Portland, OR mentioned months ago that they'd been taught what to look for when looking for a converted GLOCK. This was bought about by some police agency (he didn't know the source) finding one or more of them on the street. I gathered the conversion was visible externally.

Onmilo
April 27, 2005, 09:47 AM
I guess gangbangers in the east and out West are much more gun savvy than the Midwest miscreants.

Here Jennings and Brycos are just now giving way to Bersa and Hi-Point.

The SKS and the AK in any and all variants are still the rifles of choice, many with the buttstocks sawn off or removed.
These are very, very rarely used in crimes, they are show pieces and badges of honor, guns are ditched after a crime and nobody wants to toss their A-KAY.

Shotguns,,,, Mavericks or Mossbergs with the pistol grip installed.

Only full autos here are Jennings that are in the process of falling apart.

Mornard
April 27, 2005, 10:00 AM
uummnnhhh..... if the parts are homemade, how come they cost $10, per the article...?

I confirm shenanigans...

30 cal slob
April 27, 2005, 10:17 AM
Oh, those evil "uzi-tec9-semiautomatic-machine-pistol-assault-weapons" oughta be banned. :scrutiny:

Seriously, though, on full-auto, I have a hard time keeping a Schmeisser MP-40 or a Walther MP-L on target.

Wonder what all the fuss is about, I doubt I could hit the side of a barn with a full-auto Glock. You're just spraying ammo. :barf:

Spreadfire Arms
April 27, 2005, 01:46 PM
USMC is right in his statement. the $275 "registered post sample" version probably costs about $10 to make. it replaces the backplate of a semi Glock pistol and it has a selector switch to turn it into a select fire machine pistol.

it works. i know because i have one on a Glock 22 w/ 29 round Scherer mags. the guys who come to the Austin gun show can see it at my table, it's there every month.

i also have a Glock 18 9mm. both are controllable when fired w/ the shoulder stock. fired free-handed, its fun, but i wouldn't call it accurate past 7-10 yards.

as far as it being real, yes it is. however it is not civilian legal as it is a post-86 machine gun sear.

mine was made by James A. Willis, Bullseye Gun Club, Utah.

VARifleman
April 27, 2005, 02:07 PM
1) The Glock in the video is not a Glock 18.

2)It is a Glock that has had a Phoenix Firearms, Inc "Fire Selector System" installed on it. (This is the company that USMC_2674 posted a link to.)

3)Evidently the Kansas Peace Officers Association ganked the file directly from the Phoenix Firearms website. They didn't even have the common courtesy to give a credit as to where they took the video from, which leads me to wonder if...

4)The Kansas Peace Officers Association have broken Intellectual Property law in their attempt to whip up hysterical paranoia.

Thus why I have sent a nice little email to Pheonix Firearms about just that...

Cops are NOT above the law. :mad:

imas
April 28, 2005, 08:38 AM
ok you have to think about it this way

you want to out do your friends in terms of firepower and also you want to out do whoever you're shooting at

you go see the matrix and say hmm I have a glock i wonder if i can shoot it like morpheus

so you buy a conversion of the internet then buy some 30 rounders off the internet or just drive to the next state

I mean what the hell. You live in california and acquired your glock illegally and carry it illegally anyway. Why not make it better?

or imagine your self as some lowtime punk weapons dealer. a full auto glock would bring you some serious dough

geekWithA.45
April 28, 2005, 09:22 AM
Was the hysteria of gangs running amok on the street with semi's "easily converted" to Full auto.

Movies and TVs portrayed police evidence rooms bulging to overstuffed with machineguns made from pedestrian arms that had been worked with a file for a few seconds.
:scrutiny:
Meanwhile, back in reality, audits of actual evidence rooms revealed that a tiny fraction of a percent of confiscated guns had been illegally converted.
:scrutiny: :scrutiny:
I've also noted that the page has now been taken down.

:scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:

El Tejon
April 28, 2005, 09:47 AM
geek, the page was taken down because the budget process for the next fiscal year is over. It will be back up when the po-po need to scare more money out of the committee. :D

THR caught the po-po red handed. Something to hide, officer? :)

Spreadfire Arms
April 28, 2005, 07:16 PM
if you want to take a look at some more glock 18 videos you can look on my website:

http://www.spreadfirearms.com/photos.html

Scroll down to:
MOVIE CLIPS (MPEG's and AVI's)

http://www.spreadfirearms.com/DamianGlock18MagDump.avi

or

http://www.spreadfirearms.com/AaronGlock18MagDump.avi

if you prefer direct links.

BluesBear
April 30, 2005, 04:13 AM
Tonight's episode of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno featured a segment with that untalented buffoon Tom Greene at Knob Creek. It showed several clips of him performing a 33 round full auto mag-dump with a Glock 18.

The first time he was shooting very high. By the last time he was holding it pretty steady considering he was facing (mugging for) the camera while the gun was pointed 180ยบ downrange.

If a stooge like him can control one, then almost anybody could.

Blackburn
April 30, 2005, 09:19 PM
Tom Greene often shoots a few Class III firearms which belong to his friends, which is why he went quite out of his way from where he was going in the state to make it to Knob Creek. :P

BluesBear
May 1, 2005, 12:47 AM
Knob Creek ain't all that far from Louisville. I grew up in Highview and Okolona so I was just about in the middle. Depending on traffic I could actually get to KC quicker than I could get to downtown. When he was at KFC-HQ he was only about an hour away from KC.



Still it was good to see another positive slant on shooting.
It seems that every year there is another "different perspective" report about the Knob Creek shoot. I can't recall ever reading one that wasn't positive.
From 1977 to 1998 I never missed a shoot. That's one thing I really miss since I moved out here. I'll make it back for at least one more some day.

ctdonath
May 1, 2005, 05:34 PM
Been a while, and email program failures have buried my copy, but I have received a variant of the "gang-bangers with full-auto Glocks" email from appropriate sources. While there are a variety of ways of making Glocks FA, there is apparently one which is quite simple with a Dremmel. IIRC, it involved grinding out part of the frame, was slam-fire risky, and had reliability problems - easy to check for when known. Simple, cheap, stupid - comparable to the shoelace trick with an AK.

Yes, there is a gang-level cheap stupid FA conversion trick for Glocks. Cops are aware.
Yes, there are proper FA conversions which likely cost the manufacturer about $10 to make, sell for ~$300, are easy to install, and require practically unobtainable paperwork to avoid huge fines & jail time.

dfaugh
May 2, 2005, 07:31 AM
But I think I'd rather be fired upon by one these "spray an pray" weapons, in the hands of some gang-banger, than by someone with a single shot, that knows what they're doing! The Sheeple, and even the cops seem to think that these are more dangerous (and they probably are, but maybe not to intended target!)...Aimed fire is what you wanna watch out for.....

BluesBear
May 2, 2005, 09:06 PM
Having watched, with much amusement, several Thug wannabes at the range I am not really worried about being hit if they were to throw down on me.
Any hit would be purely accidental.
Of course I am aware that accidental bullet wounds hurt just as much as intentional ones do.

I think the best strategy when you encounter a gang-banger with a G18 would be to duck for cover, wait two seconds and pop him during the magazine change. :D

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