Guy On The Way To The Range Gets Carjacked. Six Guns + Ammo Gone.


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DonNikmare
April 29, 2005, 08:13 PM
This was on local news in DFW last night...

The victim stopped by a Home Depot on the way to the range to pick up some staples to hang his targets with. In the Home Depot parking lot, he was approached by two guys one of whoom pointed a gun at him (gang style/sideways) and demanded money. Then the gun holding guy jumped in the victim's truck and drove off taking six guns + the range ammo with him.

They said the victim was an avid hunter so all the guns were likely long guns although they didn't specify so in the story.

He said he probably would not replace the guns as he felt so bad about "putting them on the streets".

I tried googling and searching for this on the wires but came up with nothing.

Nik

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R.H. Lee
April 29, 2005, 08:25 PM
Can you say "Condition White"?

Smoke
April 29, 2005, 10:35 PM
Saw that on the news myself. They should file footage of a large pile of ammo as if that was representative of what was stolen. Made it look like the guy had a few thousand rounds for each of the six guns.

Morons.

But of course this was on the same station that later in the evening did a piece on folks hunting bigfoot in the Piney Woods of east Texas.

Smoke

DigMe
April 29, 2005, 11:26 PM
But of course this was on the same station that later in the evening did a piece on folks hunting bigfoot in the Piney Woods of east Texas.

What's worse is how they'd been building up to that story too...like it's "the big one" or something.

brad cook

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
April 29, 2005, 11:30 PM
I missed this on the news last night, but I'll go along with a concerned 'tsk, tsk, tsk' and full agreement that the poor schmuck was in 'condition white'. It bites to be him. Hopefully his vehicle will be recovered relatively unmolested without the items being discovered by the cretins who took it...but who can say what the ones who next find the truck will remove.

I would expect better of our local media, though. Which channel was it?

Smoke, everyone knows Archer County is prime Bigfoot territory, not East Texas. :D

Regards,
Rabbit.

Delmar
April 29, 2005, 11:50 PM
Stories like that make me glad of my decision to CCW a pistol whenever I go to the range. Ammo and other weapons get locked in separate places, but of course, the best defense has always been awareness!

I also CCW returning from the range-kinda silly maybe, but who knows who has been looking over your wares while you're having fun?

Jamie45
April 30, 2005, 12:10 AM
I made this observation during my Navy days: Nuclear Weapons, cash and small arms always traveled under armed guard.

Works for me!

DonNikmare
April 30, 2005, 01:16 AM
"Which channel was it?" I'm not sure but I know I was watching channel 4/fox prior to the news so it may have been on the same channel during the news.

It seems like a terrible nightmare! One tends to feel more secure with guns in the car but they are no good when not on and not ready to go.

It's stories like these that 1st brought me to the point of wanting to own a firearm for home protection and have now brought me to the point of realizing I should get a CHL.

I'm not looking to start a debate here, just need some clarifiaction...would he have been justified in responding with deadly force given that they wanted his $ and car?
It would seem to me he would have as was confronted with deadly force ie gun being pointed at him with the implied threat of killing him but I'm just not 100% sure that this is the right way to look at it.

Nik

mrhuckins
April 30, 2005, 01:30 AM
Was bigfoot involved in the robbery?

Randy in Arizona
April 30, 2005, 01:39 AM
Nik,

On shooting a goblin - -

Think of it as doing your Christian Duty * to put an end to his Sinful Ways

* (Or whatever religion or body of philosophy you adhere to)

:rolleyes:

IZinterrogator
April 30, 2005, 03:46 AM
would he have been justified in responding with deadly force given that they wanted his $ and car?
It would seem to me he would have as was confronted with deadly force ie gun being pointed at him with the implied threat of killing him but I'm just not 100% sure In Texas, it would be perfectly legal. The use of a deadly weapon by the criminals would make it a clean shoot.

Byron Quick
April 30, 2005, 06:06 AM
I also CCW returning from the range-kinda silly maybe, but who knows who has been looking over your wares while you're having fun?

I once had to make decisions such as this. Complicated my life. One day I got tired of the onerous vicious decison cycle. Not I jjust carry all the time. Doing that assures that I will never need a handgun and not have one...which could ruin your entire life.

It would seem to me he would have as was confronted with deadly force ie gun being pointed at him with the implied threat of killing him but I'm just not 100% sure that this is the right way to look at it.

What other way of looking at it were you considering? Freelance socialism?:)

It would have been a good shoot in Georgia. About the only places that I know of where it would not have been considered legal are places where having a defensive handgun would be illegal. NYC and other people's republics.

HSMITH
April 30, 2005, 09:33 AM
CCW on the way to and from the range is a smart thing........

Bear Gulch
April 30, 2005, 09:39 AM
Heck, at the range I pop the bolts out and have them in a separate locked tackle box. The one for the rifle I am shooting goes down range with me when I change paper. There was an incident near Boise years ago where some creeps pulled up at the range and shot a fellow with his own rifle while he was changing his target.

MikeIsaj
April 30, 2005, 09:45 AM
Anytime I move weapons, I carry. I also don't ever leave the weapons unattended. The home depot trip would have to be a seperate and inconvenient move.

Carry is especially important coming from the range. No one knows what I carry in the bag out of my house. It's a no-brainer what's in the bag on the way out of the range.

Byron Quick
April 30, 2005, 10:17 AM
Heck, at the range I pop the bolts out and have them in a separate locked tackle box. The one for the rifle I am shooting goes down range with me when I change paper. There was an incident near Boise years ago where some creeps pulled up at the range and shot a fellow with his own rifle while he was changing his target.

Taking the bolts out is a good idea. I suppose I lack sufficient trust in my fellow man but when I go downrange; I walk with a loaded rifle...just in case some creeps join the party.

ny32182
April 30, 2005, 10:35 AM
It would definitely have been a good shoot if he had had such an opportunity, but even if he WAS carrying at the time, he would have to have a death wish to try to draw and fire before the guy with a gun already in his face has a chance to pull the trigger.

I doubt a concealed handgun would have kept this guy's truck from being taken...

dev_null
April 30, 2005, 10:50 AM
Think of it as doing your Christian Duty * to put an end to his Sinful Ways

* (Or whatever religion or body of philosophy you adhere to)
I don't think that'll work for the Jains. Those are the people who drink through a screen or piece of cloth so they don't accidentally hurt (swallow) a gnat. :neener:

Gunsnrovers
April 30, 2005, 11:25 AM
Even in the PRK, you would have been justified to use deadly force here. Once the bad guy pulls a gun on you, it's pretty clear that your life is in danger. Of course, as CCW's are hens teeth here, it's a moot point. :fire:

It's easy to use hindsight and scream "condition white" when these things come up, but the reality is that at some point anyone of us can be taken down. More then a few pro's have been taken out by rank amatuers. :(

Glocker
April 30, 2005, 03:51 PM
WOW !!!!............ for the love of "GLOCK " ....condition white :what:

chris in va
April 30, 2005, 04:14 PM
Look guys, just by reading the original post I can tell you the guy probably didn't have any options, carrying or not. Once a gun is pointed at you, there's no outrunning a bullet. I guess in TX though you can shoot a guy stealing your car and 6 rifles...

Guys feel comfortable at Home Depot/Lowes and other 'guy' places like that. Of COURSE he was in condition white. No one can fault him for not expecting an assault at a place like that.

Just my observation.

wasrjoe
April 30, 2005, 04:20 PM
One should always be aware, but doubly so when transporting something they value. (Guns, children, whatever it may be.)

LiquidTension
April 30, 2005, 08:23 PM
You'd better believe that I'd have shot out the tires of my own vehicle before letting some scum drive off with it AND my guns. There's one application of a CWP right there :scrutiny:

nipprdog
April 30, 2005, 08:39 PM
I also don't ever leave the weapons unattended. The home depot trip would have to be a seperate and inconvenient move.

ditto. ;)

cxm
April 30, 2005, 08:54 PM
Can anyone say "felony stupid?"

Utterly amazing...

V/r

Chuck

MikeIsaj
May 1, 2005, 11:08 AM
Npprdog got it.

Folks are missing my point. I never said he should have resisted the robbery by drawing on a guy who already has a weapon in his face. This arguement ignores my primary point that HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE STOPPED AT THE HOME DEPOT TO BEGIN WITH!!! You don't leave weapons in an unattended car period!

captain obvious
May 1, 2005, 11:41 AM
I remember the time some guy tried to carjack me on the way to the range...

I pulled my AK, and never before nor since have seen such a huge, muscular fellow cower away so quickly :D

Gunsnrovers
May 1, 2005, 12:04 PM
I agree the Home Depot trip should have been skipped, but...

That being said, can't count how many times we've driven to go camping, off roading, etc with guns and ammo in the trucks and have stopped for a bite to eat, gone to the store to buy supplies, ice, etc enroute.

How often do you go the range with friends and stop for a burger on the way home?

roo_ster
May 1, 2005, 02:02 PM
1. Victim may not have had an opportunity to do squat, given the circumstances. Sometimes you're just scr__ed.

2. Yeah, I agree it might be best to drive straight to the range, & straight home, no stops allowed. In the service, any sensitive items would have had a guard at all times.
(Warning: But-Monkey Alert)
But, we ought to give the benefit of the doubt to the victim. He is not Pvt Snuffy in the 432nd Mess Kit Repair Battalion. He was not the one who broke the law, threatened another with death, and stole an auto & guns.

Not everybody wants or needs to make a ninja-roll when entering/leaving every room...not everybody is going to live life to its tactical fullest.

Question: If the victim had been CCW-ing, would he have been justified in shooting the criminals AFTER they were in his auto?
Scenario:
BGs get drop on GG
GG gives up keys
BGs get into auto
As BGs figure out how to get auto moving. GG draws CCW, walks up to driver-side window, and shoots BG in head

In Texas, on his own property, at night, there is no question: GG is justified in the law. The question is when it is NOT on his property, at night, and this occurs.

MikeIsaj
May 1, 2005, 10:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to beat the victim up. I just think there's a good lesson to be learned. 'nuff said about that.

"Question: If the victim had been CCW-ing, would he have been justified in shooting the criminals AFTER they were in his auto?"

Probably not. The guns in vehicle may have justified it in some states. The key is to make it plausable that I was in immediate fear for my life. Need to think about this...

DonNikmare
May 1, 2005, 10:19 PM
I have been wondering this also. If I had a gun pointed at me and was CCW'ing, I would be likely to get a chance to unholster and shoot when the BG is not looking or has even turned his back to me.

Would that be considered a "clean shoot" if he was walking away toward my car/truck and I shot him in the back or he made it into the car/truck before I got to him?

Nik

sm
May 1, 2005, 11:17 PM
CCW on the way to and from the range is a smart thing........
Yep and while on the range...well concealed is concealed.

Now granted I was not there. I do believe one never knows the where or when of next encounter. [CRSam]

So I CCW , I quit going to public ranges, often go by myself to private property, gated and someone up the way knows my comings and goings. I have no stickers on my vehicle advertising guns. I don't advertise guns ,or that I am a shooter. I have been low profile too long. No logo'd gear, I use a backpack , generic baseball bat carrier, maybe a folding chair...well the drawstring cover for the chair anyway.

Nope - just some older returning student with his backpack, perhaps gonna do some batting practice to alieve some stress...

What guns?

IIRC we have situations were folks were robbed of guns and vehicles, used in crimes...

Guns, I don't know nothing about guns. I have even been invited to go out and learn to shoot..." we will even bring a gun for you" ... I dunno - ain't them there guns dangerous or something? ;)

Mannlicher
May 2, 2005, 07:20 AM
My question is did the guy have his guns in his vehicle where they were visible? Could well be that the homeboys spotted them, and then ambushed the guy.
If I go to the range in my pickup, the guns are locked in the toolbox. If I go in the car, everything is in the trunk. No sense in asking for trouble.

DonNikmare
May 2, 2005, 10:35 PM
It didn't become clear whether they were visible or not. It was a red SUV of some sort. It sounded like robbery was the initial intent and the car jacking was an impulse decision made by the BG at the time of the robbery.

Nik

Firethorn
May 2, 2005, 11:14 PM
I think that that needs to be brought up. Given the horrible possibility of my firearms being used to commit murder if they're stolen from me, I've taken actions to prevent that by obtaining a safe.

But this brings up a question. In general, property isn't worth shooting somebody over. But given the chance that my firearms could be used to commit murder and other crimes, can I up the amount of force I use to defend them? I know that a car could be used the same way, but I think that we will all admit that the car is more likely to end up in a chop shop or ditch somewhere.

Then the next step, if they're trying to steal my car, with the guns in the back, do I take the same steps? It sounds like a question for the DA.

Vic303
May 3, 2005, 12:31 AM
Which Home Despot parking lot was it? Which range was he en route to? We were at BTI last Friday evening, but never heard anything about this--missed the evening news though...

Gunsnrovers
May 3, 2005, 12:42 AM
FWIW, Home Depot parking lots are prime rip off locations.

I used to be a vendor servicing local Home Depots. Between the traffic in and out of the lots, the inviting truck beds full of great contruction tools, etc ripe for the picking, and every day store theft, I don't think a day passed that squad car wasn't in front of the stores I went to.

Lone_Gunman
May 3, 2005, 12:45 AM
Would that be considered a "clean shoot" if he was walking away toward my car/truck and I shot him in the back or he made it into the car/truck before I got to him?

You are asking if it is OK to shoot someone in the back who is walking away from you? Even if it is legal, why would you shoot someone in the back who is walking away?

You'd better believe that I'd have shot out the tires of my own vehicle before letting some scum drive off with it AND my guns.

I think that is a really bad idea, and likely to get you arrested.

poe_9999
May 3, 2005, 02:18 AM
You are asking if it is OK to shoot someone in the back who is walking away from you? Even if it is legal, why would you shoot someone in the back who is walking away?

Vigilante justice… If only it wasn’t illegal…

jason10mm
May 3, 2005, 11:28 AM
The issue is whether you can shoot an ARMED assailant who has made a threat on your life, at a time when it is advantageous to YOU, ie when his back is turned or he is occupied with stealing your vehicle. As you are presumably right there next to him, your life is still in danger, as is anyone else nearby. Also, assuming the vehicle is loaded with firearms, you can make a case that you were trying to prevent a much more serious crime down the road. I believe that many states have provisions covering you for using deadly force to prevent a felony you know will be happening (ie, a guy robs you, then says he is going to go rape someone else), or who has dsiplayed homicidal behavior in the past and can be presumed to do so in the future (a felon making multiple car jacks during a high speed chase, by you shooting him, you are possibly saving the life of his next car jack victim).

Anyway, it probably all comes down to the DA in your area, and whether or not you gave a verbal warning to the crooks. Sneaking up on the guy and assasinating him with a shot to the back of the head won't look good (to a jury 6 months after the fact anyway). Calling on him to drop his weapon and get out of the car, then shooting him if he doesn't respond immediately, isn't much different IMHO, though the police might see it that way, especially if you were protecting dangerous/valuable cargo (firearms, explosives, kids, etc).

Ugh, if only Texas had open carry, range trips would be SO much easier!

DonNikmare
May 4, 2005, 12:41 AM
The issue is whether you can shoot an ARMED assailant who has made a threat on your life, at a time when it is advantageous to YOU, ie when his back is turned or he is occupied with stealing your vehicle.

My point exactly!

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was a Home Depot parking lot in Grapevine, TX.

Nik

Lone_Gunman
May 4, 2005, 11:00 AM
I think shooting someone in the back is going to make it more difficult for you to avoid charges, and damn near impossible to avoid a civil suit.

repsychler
May 4, 2005, 06:40 PM
Just watched an update on Fox 4 news here in Dallas, this guy totally lied. He made up the story about the carjacking (apparently borrowed the truck to a buddy and it hadn't been returned) and the guns weren't in the truck. (According to Fox 4 they were stolen in a previous burglary)
Real class act.
:cuss:

DonNikmare
May 4, 2005, 07:16 PM
Yep, heard about it on the radio :fire:

They didn't say what his motive was but that the police figured it out when the Home Depot servailance cameras showed him returning to get the truck later. What an idiot!!! :cuss:

Oh, and it occured/didn't occur in Grand Prairie, Texas not Grapevine.

Nik

ak47nevada
May 4, 2005, 10:49 PM
What would be the legality of this situation?

Let the scum carjackers get in and start your rig up while you pull your .40 cal and unload on the vehicle with them in it?

Update: repsychler, wow that sucks! I wonder why he even made up the story?

Tharg
May 5, 2005, 12:20 AM
last thing our (seriously wierd and prolly over armed instructor) said was... (this was sage advice) just because you are leaving the range - doesn't mean you don't save some ammo for the guns on the way back...

aka - an empty gun is ....... a club... rofl

of all the crap i heard spouted out of my CHL instructor... that rang true...

J/Tharg!

ps ... my seriously wierd and prolly over armed comment comes from a place where if its more than 1 gun w/ maybe an extra mag can take... you prolly shouldn't have been trying to solve it area.. =)

that being said... being over armed... means never being underarmed =)

rofl

i'm so conflicted =)

hehehee

J/Tharg!

TheEgg
May 5, 2005, 10:29 AM
It sure will be interesting to see if the "truth" of this matter can ever be sorted out. The guy has now give multiple stories, many of which sound like total BS.

He now says that the guns were stolen in a "home invasion" robbery several weeks ago, but that he never bothered to report it to the police.

He claims that he 'loaned' the vehicle to a friend who never brought it back.

He DID make a claim on his insurance policy for the truck, claiming it was car-jacked, but did NOT make a claim on his insurance for the "home invasion robbery" and the stolen guns.

None of this adds up. I am sure the police investigators have got all sorts of alarms going off in their BS detectors and are trying to get the guy to tell the truth, because it sure looks like up to now he has told nothing close to it.

Can you say "drug/gang" involvement? Yes, I knew you could. :D

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