THR Virtual Match - MAY 2005 - OUTSIDE THE COMFORT ZONE


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photo_guy
May 1, 2005, 12:00 AM
THR Virtual Match - MAY 2005



For those who may not be familiar with the general rules of the matches please see the rules FAQ .
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=64130


Outside the Comfort Zone

This month’s match will move you outside your comfort zone at the range.

You arrive at the range and set-up on your favorite lane. The target is out at a distance that you have tried many times. You know what to expect. You load the mag with a familiar click,click,click as each round slides into place. Your gun feels natural in your hand as you pick it up, slide the mag into place, rack the slide and raise it to sight onto the target. Breath, grip, stance, front sight focus, all as you’ve done thousands of times before. The sights line up and a gentle squeeze of the trigger sends your first round toward the target. Four more just like that and you are done for this months match entry.

WAIT! You are only half done!

Now you need to repeat this process using you WEAK HAND. “Not so tough”, I hear you say, but there is another twist. You must also use you WEAK EYE.

So, if you are a ‘normal’ shooter you are likely right handed and use your right eye to sight with. For the second target you must use your left hand and left eye to shoot the target.

If, for example, you are cross dominant (like I am) and shoot right handed but left eyed normally the second target must be shot left handed and right eyed.

TARGET DOWNLOAD (http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/52_free_targets.html) http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/52_free_targets.html
Download the 50 yard NRA target from this page.


PROCEDURES

Two targets per entry/class – one target shot strong side the second target shot weak side.

Five rounds per target.

Shots falling outside the outer ring will count as zero.

The standard distances will be 10 yards for Pistol and 25 yrds for Rifle. (plus 50 yrds and 100yrds for supported rifle classes.)

Shooting will be done unsupported for all classes with the exception of the Supported Class categories. Per the request of a few shooters I have decided to add some supported classes to this months match.



SCORING:

Normal scoring conventions apply – shots breaking the line to a higher ring count at the higher score.
Shots falling outside the outer ring will count as zero.


The final score you report must include :
THR NAME
CLASS
STRONG SIDE SCORE ___________
WEAK SIDE SCORE___________
Target Distance (yards)




UNSUPPORTED/FREEHAND CLASSES: 10yrds handgun 25 yrds rifle
PISTOL STOCK CLASS - Standard pistols with barrels 6" or less
PISTOL IMPROVED - Pistols with significant improvements from out-of-the-box or pistols with barrels more than 6".
PISTOL SCOPED - Any scoped pistol
RIFLE STOCK CLASS - Standard rifles with iron sights
RIFLE SCOPED - Any scoped rifle
AIRGUN PISTOL- un-scoped airgun
AIRGUN RIFLE – un-scoped air rifle


SUPPORTED/BENCHREST CLASSES
All unsupported classes can also be attempted supported at 10/25 yrds
Plus:
RIFLE STOCK CLASS – Standard rifles with iron sights at 50yrds and/or 100yrds
RIFLE SCOPED - Any scoped rifle at 50yrds and/or 100yrds


ONLY ONE ENTRY PER CLASS THIS MONTH. You can enter as many classes as you want if you have the proper equipment to qualify. (That is up to 18 entries if you do all supported and unsupported classes!)

The target can be found HERE (http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/52_free_targets.html) http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/52_free_targets.html

or, alternatively here (http://members.aol.com/way2go4159/50yrd20NRA.pdf)

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NoBite
May 1, 2005, 08:52 AM
photo_guy - Do we add the scores for the Strong side and Weak side targets together to arrive at our entry score for a given class?

Mal H
May 1, 2005, 12:22 PM
No_Bite - looks like p_g wants the individual strong/weak side scores not the total. He's probably going to do some scoring based on them as opposed to the total of both.
The final score you report must include :
...
STRONG SIDE SCORE
WEAK SIDE SCORE


Now, for my question/observation, photo_guy. When you say:All unsupported classes can also be attempted supported at 10/25 yrdsYou do mean that those attempts will be separated from the members who try them unsupported, right? Otherwise, 'twouldn't be fair. Perhaps a note should be added that everyone should state whether the class was supported or unsupported no matter what the target distance. In other words, an entry would be:The final score you report must include :
THR NAME
CLASS
STRONG SIDE SCORE ___________
WEAK SIDE SCORE___________
Target Distance (yards)
Supported (yes/no)

photo_guy
May 1, 2005, 12:46 PM
NoBite - Mal H is correct. Please report strong side and weak side scores for each entry. I will add them together for the final ranking but I want to see the difference. [The delta will be used in the unlikely event a tie breaker is needed- smaller delta is better!]

Mal H - Yes, the supported class entries will be separate from the unsupported. Everyone needs to report their scores under a class and clearly identify supported or unsupported. This means that someone who only has one firearm (i.e. a handgun) could enter is two classes - Lets say, for example: UNSUPPORTED PISTOL STOCK and then try again using support to make an entry under SUPPORTED PISTOL STOCK.

My initial intent was to only add supported classes for rifle. Based on past matches I had a feeling that if I limited the supported class to just rifle I'd get people asking why not pistol as well -so I put it out there. Then I realized supported rifle at 25 yrds is not too much of a challenge so I added the potential for 50yrd and 100yd entries for those benchrest shooters out there. We will see how it goes. If there are not enough entries in these classes the scoring will be pretty lame.


BTW - SPECIAL CAUTION TO ALL: Be very careful when shooting your weak side/weak eye target. It is VERY easy to slip back to your stong eye after the first round is fired or to forget which eye you should be using for that target. I know this from personal experience. :D

cropcirclewalker
May 1, 2005, 12:57 PM
Just so that I understand.........(I'm simple) One entry = 2 targets...strong and weak for each class?

There are 7 unsupported classes and 2 supported. Then, if we choose, we can enter the 7 unsupported classes as supported. That's 7 more.

7 + 2 + 7 = 16.

Are you saying that if we choose, we can enter the 2 supported classes unsupported (offhand) at 50 and/or 100 yards? That is 4 more entries (20 total) unless we have to choose between 50 or 100. (18 total)

For a grand total of 36 targets.

Naturally, I would choose 50 yds, but just shooting offhand last month (My first VM) has taught me a lot. Maybe I would shoot 100 yds just to see if I could hit it.

pax
May 1, 2005, 01:01 PM
Just a clarification: are you talking about shooting Strong Hand Only/Weak Hand Only, or are you talking about shooting mirror image using both hands?

pax

photo_guy
May 1, 2005, 01:15 PM
Cropcircle - Yes - One entry = 2 targets
Yes - The addition of the 50 and 100 yard target ranges was added with supported class in mind. BUT...if you wish to give it a go unsupported you may do so.
That opens everything up to supported or unsupported entries! Lots of apportunities this month. Everyone should find something that fits their needs and limitations.


Pax - Good question. My intent was that 2-hand holds MAY be used for handgun classes. They would be mirror-imaged for weak side.

Another tip: Don't forget to change your stance for weak hand shooting.

Ankeny
May 3, 2005, 11:16 AM
Deleted. Explanation below.

Robert J McElwain
May 3, 2005, 12:00 PM
I think, before I shoot this match, I'll drop by the drugstore and invest in an eye patch. :)

Bob

NoBite
May 3, 2005, 12:25 PM
Photo_guy: 5 shots per target or 6?

photo_guy
May 3, 2005, 01:31 PM
Five rounds per target.
Ankeny take note.

cropcirclewalker
May 3, 2005, 03:05 PM
Mr. Guy,

I don't think I can be prolific on this match. Although I am fortunate to live on 90 acres in the woods, half a mile from the nearest neighbor and have a firing range off by back slab, I don't own any improved or scoped pistols and my pellet rifle is busted. Why fix it?

The final score you report must include :
THR NAME Cropcirclewalker
CLASS Stock Pistol
STRONG SIDE SCORE __45______
WEAK SIDE SCORE____43_____
Target Distance (yards) 10
Supported (yes/no) no, offhand (unsupported)
5 rounds per target

[edited to add image] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/cropcirclewalker/MaySTOCKPISTOLOFFHAND.jpg
the weak side lower right is 3 holes. 2 of them broke the 9 ring. Why would I lie? Mr. Ankeny Beat me already. :) [/edification]

Yes, my weak hand kept pointing to the right also. No muscle memory I guess. I ended up aiming like 3" to the left.

Eye patches are good. Put a piece of gauze, cotton or cardboard inside your shooting glasses. :cool:

Ankeny
May 3, 2005, 03:27 PM
Oh poop, I didn't even notice. I shot six and just scored the points down. What's the chances of shooting another set of targets as good as the first set?

Well I shot the targets again with the correct number of shots. I didn't do quite as well this time. The score is:

THR NAME: Ankeny
CLASS: Stock Pistol
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 50
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 47
Target Distance (yards): 10

Once again, my shots are to the right with my left hand. I am pretty sure the shift in POI is a vision problem. I have prisms in my glasses to correct for double vision. It's no wonder my eyes don't want to converge on the front sight with two eyes open.

Here are the targets:
http://www.trib.com/~rankeny/targets.jpg

Mal H
May 3, 2005, 06:19 PM
"What's the chances of shooting another set of targets as good as the first set?"

Well, if your shooting on this target is as good as you've shown in the past, I'd say the odds are in your favor. :D

NoBite
May 5, 2005, 01:40 PM
I think, before I shoot this match, I'll drop by the drugstore and invest in an eye patch.

I should have invested in an eye exam!

Here we go in the order in which I shot the targets...

THR NAME: NoBite
CLASS: Pistol Stock (Kimber Custom Classic I)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 40 (9-9-8-7-7)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 26 (8-6-6-6-0)
Target Distance: 10 yards
Supported: NO

http://tinypic.com/4v0qiv http://tinypic.com/4v0qye


THR NAME: NoBite
CLASS: Pistol Stock (SA XD-9)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 41 (10-9-9-8-5)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 26 (one shot off the target!) (8-7-6-5-0)
Target Distance: 10 yards
Supported: NO

http://tinypic.com/4v0r4p http://tinypic.com/4v1bm1

THR NAME: NoBite
CLASS: Pistol Improved (Ruger Mark II w/Red Dot)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 46 (10-10-10-8-8)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 39 (10-10-10-9-0) (2 bullets in hole @ 5 o'clock)
Target Distance: 10 yards
Supported: NO

http://tinypic.com/4v1cb9 http://tinypic.com/4v1col

Next, a couple of rifles.

NoBite
May 5, 2005, 01:54 PM
I am reminded that shooting is a skill diminished by lack of practice!

THR NAME: NoBite
CLASS: Rifle Improved (Ruger 10/22 w/Scope)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 48 (10-10-10-9-9)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 33 (10-9-7-7-0)
Target Distance: 25 yards
Supported: NO

http://tinypic.com/4v1d94 http://tinypic.com/4v1etd

THR NAME: NoBite
CLASS: Rifle Stock (Marlin 1894C, iron sights)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 36 (8-7-7-7-7)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 40 (10-10-9-6-5)
Target Distance: 25 yards
Supported: NO

http://tinypic.com/4v1fkn http://tinypic.com/4v1fo7

That was odd. My weak side was stronger than my strong side. :uhoh:

ACP230
May 7, 2005, 12:43 PM
ACP230
10 yards
Standard Pistol Class BHP 9mm factory fixed sights.
Santa Barbara FMJ Ammo 115 grain.
Strong Side Score 34 (6,7,7,7,7)
Weak Side Score 30 (0,6,6,8,10) Threw one shot wide to the right.

ACP230
25 yards
Standard Rifle Class Universal .30 Carbine standard peep sights.
.30 Carbine reloads 115 grain LRN
Strong Side Score 24 (0, 0, 7,7, 10)
Weak Side Score 6 (0,0,0,0, 6) Shot high.

Have an eye patch but forgot it. Keeping my right eye closed was a real distraction.

Mark whiz
May 12, 2005, 09:06 PM
I didn't get a chance to do any firearm work with these targets today, but I did get my air rifle segment shot.

THR NAME: Mark whiz
CLASS: Air Rifle, Open Sights, Unsupported (Daisy 753)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 50 (10-10-10-10-10) No "X"s
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 48 (8-10-10-10-10) No "X"s
Target Distance: 10 meters

I should be able to, at least, get some pistol work done next week.

Fly320s
May 19, 2005, 04:05 PM
Took my Springfield out for a run today:

THR NAME: FLy320s
CLASS: Pistol - Stock
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 38
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 31
Target Distance: 10 yards

Not as good strong hand/eye as I thought I should do. But I did have a decent group. :D

I'll try to get the rifle done next week.

cropcirclewalker
May 20, 2005, 12:30 AM
I don't know why it is, this is the honor system, but I feel like I gotta explain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/cropcirclewalker/MAY25RESTSCOPED.jpg
Strong side: The first shot cut the 10 line and the second shot took out the evidence. Yes, 25 yds seems like simple and yes, I gotta take responsibility for the flier on the weak side. You see, they are hand loads. This is my squirrel gun.

The final score you report must include :

THR NAME Cropcirclewalker
CLASS Scoped rifle
STRONG SIDE SCORE 50
WEAK SIDE SCORE 49
Target Distance (yards) 25
supported

edited to add........I shoulda said...1943 version of the Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1, scoped

further edited to add....I rotated these targets 90 degrees ccw when I clamped them to my bullet trap. The wandering is vertical, not horizontal. I think I will load up some more with a little more Unique to see what happens at 50 yds.

Mark whiz
May 21, 2005, 02:46 AM
Got my pistol targets shot today. :o

Since there is only 1 entry per class this time, my best targets were:

THR NAME: Mark whiz
CLASS: Stock Pistol Unsupported (S.A. 1911-A1 Mil-Spec)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 48 (10-10-10-8-10) 3 "X"s
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 46 (10-9-9-9-9) 1 "X"
Target Distance: 10 yards

Actually, so far this month, I've found it pretty easy to shoot weak-armed/weak-eyed. I know I'm right eye dominant and right handed, but that left eye ain't doing so bad.

And after I finished the targets I decided to play a little - set up coke cans at 50yds and made 'em dance with the 1911.......... I didn't think I was that good of a shot, but I hit the first can, first shot. :D

photo_guy
May 21, 2005, 02:46 PM
Mark whiz, If you look at the faq you will see that when there is only one entry allowed for the match the intent is that you only shoot one target. That is your entry for score. You should not 'pick your best' score as the entry.

If you did shoot more than one target your first target score should be the one reported for the match. If you wish to shoot additional targets after the one 'for record' that is OK.

cropcirclewalker
May 21, 2005, 06:10 PM
OK, so my No. 4 Mk 1 Enfield is either shot out (which I don't think) or my problem is with my handloads. There is a 9X scope on it and the crosshairs were on the bull, both strong and weak. 11.2 grains Unique behind a Lyman 311291 170 gr. LRN, which is supposed to be real good (the 311291).

we are talking like 1425 avg fps but I am trying to keep the load light, since I don't want to send the bullet into the next county. I guess I gotta up the charge and see what happens.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/cropcirclewalker/MAY50RESTSCOPED.jpg

THR NAME Cropcirclewalker
CLASS Scoped rifle
STRONG SIDE SCORE 42 (6, 7, X, 10, 9)
WEAK SIDE SCORE 37 (10, 5, 5, 9, 8)
Target Distance (yards) 50
supported

Mark whiz
May 21, 2005, 10:18 PM
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

Fortunately Photo Guy those were the first shot.................my .38 & .357 targets afterward were a bit disappointing.

Robert J McElwain
May 22, 2005, 09:59 PM
This was a fun match. Unfortunately, I forgot to buy an eye patch, which would have made things easier. Instead, I had to fold a piece of paper and hang it over my glasses on my strong side.

THR NAME: Robert J McElwain
CLASS: Pistol Stock Ruger P93, 9 MM
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 42 (10 10 9 8 5)
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 31 (10 9 6 6 )
Target Distance: 10 yards
Supported: NO


THR NAME: Robert J McElwain
CLASS: Scoped Pistol (Ruger Mark II .22 cal., Bushnell Holosight)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 45 (10 10 9 8 8 )
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 39 (10 8 8 7 6 )
Target Distance: 10 yards
Supported: NO

Mark whiz
May 24, 2005, 04:35 PM
Alrighty......................got my rifle target in today:

THR NAME: Mark whiz
CLASS: Stock Rifle Unsupported (S.A. M1A)
STRONG SIDE SCORE: 48 (10-10-9-9-10) 0 "X"s
WEAK SIDE SCORE: 43 (8-9-8-9-9)
Target Distance: 25 yards

cropcirclewalker
May 24, 2005, 07:38 PM
I have some new glasses on order. Some advice to you whippersnappers.... Don't ever get old. But if you do, buy some scopes, lots of scopes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/cropcirclewalker/MAYSTOCKRIFLE50REST.jpg

THR NAME Cropcirclewalker
CLASS STOCK RIFLE (M1917)
STRONG SIDE SCORE 44 (10, 10, 9, 8, 7)
WEAK SIDE SCORE 45 (10, 9, 9, 9, 8)
Target Distance (yards) 50
supported

cropcirclewalker
May 26, 2005, 04:02 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/cropcirclewalker/MAYSTOCK25OFFHAND.jpg

THR NAME Cropcirclewalker
CLASS STOCK RIFLE (M1917)
STRONG SIDE SCORE 48 (10, x, 9, 10, 9)
WEAK SIDE SCORE 46 (6, X, 9, 10, 9)
Target Distance (yards) 25
Unsupported
:D

Mal H
May 28, 2005, 07:03 PM
This was a beautiful Memorial Day weekend here in Virginia to try this contest. Too bad my targets didn't turn out as beautiful. :)

THR NAME Mal H
CLASS Scoped Pistol - Ruger Mk II w/Red dot, unsupported
STRONG SIDE SCORE 8, 9, 10, 10, 10 (1X) = 47
WEAK SIDE SCORE 8, 8, 9, 10, 10 (0X) = 45
Target Distance 10 yards

Strong side shots were somewhat centered around the 10, but my weak side shots were all to the right. Something for me to work on a bit, might be due to slight difference in my left eye.
[Edit] Just re-read Ankenny's post. He mentioned the same "shooting-right" problem with his left eye. More evidence that it might be an eyesight problem.


THR NAME Mal H
CLASS Stock Pistol - SIG P239 9mm, unsupported
STRONG SIDE SCORE 7, 7, 7, 9, 10 (0X) = 40
WEAK SIDE SCORE 5, 5, 6, 8, 8 = 32
Target Distance 10 yards


THR NAME Mal H
CLASS Scoped Rifle - Ruger 10/22T, supported
STRONG SIDE SCORE 10, 10, 10, 10, 10 (4X) = 50
WEAK SIDE SCORE 10, 10, 10, 10, 10 (3X) = 50
Target Distance 50 yards

Not too surprising there wasn't much difference strong vs weak. With supported, it's mostly the rifle/scope and only a little the shooter that counts.

Mark whiz
May 29, 2005, 02:17 AM
Mal H.................

to combat the pull to the right with your weak hand/eye....................trying just using your fingertip on the trigger (if that is not what you were doing already). I found that with my strong hand I have to go all the way to the first knuckle to keep from pulling the gun right - but with the left hand, just using the fingertip brought it group back toward center.

Mal H
May 29, 2005, 02:34 AM
Good point, Mark. In fact, now that you mention it, I recall thinking how odd the trigger felt on my left hand finger. I believe I was using more finger, so to speak, with my left hand than I do with my right.

One thing this did show me however - I would be able to effectively continue the fight if my right arm was disabled, and that's good to know. (Obviously, I don't practice weak side very often.)

photo_guy
June 2, 2005, 01:18 AM
Here are the results from the match - I think I have them all correct.
Not too many entries in the 'supported classes' that we tried this month. I'll keep supported rifle classes for next month as 'official' classes. I was glad to see that Mal H was able to enter since he had made the request to add supported classes. He was also the only one to get a perfect score. Hmmmm.



PISTOL STOCK CLASS
Ankeny 50/47
Mark whiz 48/46
CROPCIRCLEWALKER 45/43
Photo_guy 47/30
RJ McElwain 42/31
Mal H 40/32
No Bite 41/26
No Bite 40/26
Fly320s 38/31
ACP230 34/30

PISTOL IMPROVED
No Bite 46/39

PISTOL SCOPED
Mal H 47/45
RJ McElwain 42/31


RIFLE STOCK CLASS
CROPCIRCLEWALKER 48/46
Mark whiz 48/43
No Bite 36/40
ACP230 24/6

RIFLE SCOPED
No Bite 48/33


AIRGUN RIFLE
Mark whiz 50/48

RIFLE STOCK CLASS - SUPPORTED
CROPCIRCLEWALKER 44/45

RIFLE SCOPED - SUPPORTED
Mal H 50/50
CROPCIRCLEWALKER 50/49
CROPCIRCLEWALKER 42/37

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