[TheDutchman]

This a Toll road that a Spanish company wants to build in Texas from San Antonio to Dallas which they will operate, in exchange they will give the State of Texas a Few Billion dollars. I am not to sure about the plan it seems like Gov. Rick Perry is trying to shove this down our throats in exchange for campaign donations.


Trans-Texas Corridor critics to rally at Capitol

WACO, Texas — Trans-Texas Corridor critics will rally at the Capitol on Tuesday in a last-ditch effort to delay plans for Gov. Rick Perry's statewide toll road network.

Opponents want the state House Transportation Committee to hold a hearing on legislation that would impose a two-year moratorium on further corridor developments and on tolls on existing roads.

However, the panel doesn't plan to consider the bill, said Jason Nelson, a spokesman for committee chairman Rep. Mike Krusee, R-Round Rock. Tuesday is the committee's final meeting this session to conduct hearings on bills.

The two-year moratorium would enable state officials and residents to determine whether the toll road, rail and pipeline corridors are really needed, said Rick Wegwerth, organizer of the McLennan County group Demanding Ethics, Responsibility and Accountability in Legislation.

Opponents argue the corridor plan is excessive and would irreparably harm property owners in its path.

The state "has never acted this rashly or quickly in matters of such importance in transportation before," said Heidi Ullrich, the rally's organizer and a member of the Fayette County group Citizens Against the Trans-Texas Corridor.

Critics have said the Legislature is their last chance to change the plan before the state finalizes a 50-year deal with developer Cintra-Zachry to build and operate the first phase from Oklahoma to San Antonio.

Proponents say population and trade growth cannot be handled by expanding existing routes. They argue that Cintra-Zachry's private capital will help the state expedite needed improvements to offset transportation congestion on the state's primary north-south artery, Interstate 35.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Garnet Coleman, D-Houston, has said he will try to attach his measure to another bill on the House floor if it does not survive the transportation committee.
Overview of plan
http://www.keeptexasmoving.org/pdfs/cda_overview.pdf

Proposed projects
http://www.keeptexasmoving.org/pdfs/factsheet_cintra_proposed.pdf

[TarpleyG]

Is I-35 that bad, really??? This would be much like the Florida Turnpike that runs parallel to I-95 for a while then turns into I-75. It is faster than I-95, especially if you are headed to the panhandle. Maybe Texas needs to speak to Florida to get pros and cons.

Greg

[MaterDei]

I am not to sure about the plan it seems like Gov. Rick Perry is trying to shove this down our throats in exchange for campaign donations.
If you really feel that way then DON'T USE THE TOLL WAY. I HATE the idea of tollways myself. One of the few things that I agree that government should be spending money on are roads and they build toll roads? AARGH!!!

p.s. - Cool :cool: Another Round Table topic

[HighVelocity]

35 is pretty bad but this toll road is not a good idea for Texas.

[EghtySx]

A spanish company or an mexican company?

[wingman]

A spanish company or an mexican company?

Company from Spain(my understanding) however I understood it was to run
from border north, my guess is the coyotes need a faster road to transport
drugs/illegals, free trade and all that. :rolleyes:

[LawDog]

http://www.corridorwatch.org/ttc/index.htm

This 185 billion dollar boondoggle cost Rick Perry my vote in the upcoming election.

LawDog

[TheDutchman]

Thats what I was thinking Wingman. I do not fill comfortable with some Spanish company buying part of Texas and calling it there own because some (Aggie)Governor is will to do anything for that next campaign contribution. :what: Sorry for Rant

BTW Committee Chairman
Rep. Mike Krusee, R-Round Rock
http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist52/krusee.htm
shoot him a email they would be happen to answer any questions we have.

[duckslayer]

because some (Aggie)Governor
:(

Oh yeah, as if someone who went to school in Austin never had a bad idea...

[TheDutchman]

Not a mistake this BIG plus the Horns have a better football team and makes up for any impropriety's mistakes that a Horn makes. :)

[Art Eatman]

I sorta grew up around the old Texas Highway Department; got a bit of understanding of the ways and means of what's now the TXDOT. My father spent 41 years there; the last 21 as head of the Materials & Tests Division. My first ever job was tail-chain with a survey crew at Pecos in 1952. I learned all about 110 degrees and 10% humidity and how you didn't hang up your clothes; you just stood them in the corner.

Used to be, only the taxes from highway fuels paid for roads. Inflation took care of that good idea.

In the 1970s or so, some highway biggie commented that the tax-base money did not exist to solve Texas' highway vehicle-usage problems.

I-35 from San Antonio to Georgetown is best described as a slow-moving parking lot.

Loop 8 at Houston is a toll road. I've found it to be the best way to get past Houston in my back-and-forth from Terlingua to Georgia. But it got built because you guys don't want to pay a higher gasoline tax.

I don't doubt there are problems in the details of this new Tollway from Dallas to SanTone. But, that would happen with any new highway. As with every highway ever built in Texas, the use of eminent domain to acquire right of way is gonna be a big hurt on some of the people. But that's not at all new. It holds for all those lakes on which some of you guys go fishing or water-skiing, remember.

Back around 1965, I'd recently begun working for the Texas Water Development Board. We got a letter in old-age-shaky handwriting from a lady who was protesting the idea of a lake on the middle Colorado River, above Buchanan. Her family had begun ranching there in the early days; her grandfather had died in an Indian attack. Her parents and other family members were buried in the family cemetery by the house she lived in that her grandfather had built. Lemme tell you, that'll rip your guts out.

But I notice that alll you guys want drinking water or lawn water or water to wash your car. Or your company needs process water for the products y'all make. And you want to flush the toilet or take a shower. That's you, your parents, your wife, your kids...

The economy of Texas is largely based on quick-movement transportation. And it's an absolute fact that every time a bypass route is built around some town, the total dollar value of economic activity increases. Downtown activity declines, but the new activity at the edges more than makes up for it. Jobs. Cash flow. That's been "known fact" since several economic studies back in the 1960s through the 1980s, with invariant findings.

Personally, while I'd be happy to see HB Zachry or some such Texas-based outfit do the construction, it doesn't really matter who builds it. Maybe Halliburton or RMK or whomever is already loaded up with projects of their own. Regardless, it ain't gonna be done by Jimmy Jones with his D-6 and two dumptrucks.

Short-term, it's construction jobs. Long-term, it's easier travel than the overloaded I-35 and it's new business activity all along the route.

So ya'll think whatever you want. Just remember there's a real world out there, full of real people. Some of them don't want to average 20mph on a 70mph highway. Just like you.

Now if everybody born in Texas after me, or who moved here since, say, 1963 when I returned home, would just up and leave, we wouldn't have many traffic problems. :D

CUL. I gotta go climb on a backhoe and load gravel for some roadwork here at home.

Art

[Jalexander]

Awright, awright. No Aggie/Longhorn fights, please. Rick Perry's alma mater has nothing to do with how bad the Trans/Texas Corridor is. I don't think anyone would argue that there's a serious need for modification to the existing transportation infrastructure in Texas. However, I don't think a quarter-mile wide swathe from border to border is any kind of answer, especially at an estimated per-mile cost of $31.4 million a mile. At a planned 4000 miles of roadway, that's a $125.5 billion, according to Corridor Watch. If they're willing to spend that kind of money, and knowing that the project is supposed to take over forty years to complete, it seems to me that they could find alternative methods of construction that wouldn't be so invasive.
I think it's significant that no one that I've spoken with supports the TTC. Granted, many of them have been folks who, like me, own rural property. But not all of them own land within the proposed right-of-way. My family does, and the idea of losing part of it makes me ill. Nevermind that the powers-that-be can't even use an American construction company. That wouldn't make me any happier, but at least the monies paid would stay here.
Okay. I'm going to stop ranting before my blood pressure starts to go up. But don't vote for Rick Perry. Don't vote for anyone who supports the Trans-Texas Corridor. It's a bad idea.

James

P.S. Art posted while I was typing, so I have to add this. He's right in that something has to be done. I don't think it should be done the way that it's going, both in terms of the plan itself, and how quiet Rick Perry has tried to keep it.

[Daniel T]

This, coupled with the insane Austin Toll garbage, has not only lost Perry my vote, it makes me want to plant my size 13 in his dangly bits. Repeatedly.

www.AustinTollParty.com

[EghtySx]

I am having a really hard time believing that 35 is bumper to bumper from Dallas to Austin. It isn't even that bad inside Dallas/FtWorth except maybe during rush hours.

[Spreadfire Arms]

i just shook hands with Uncle Rick on Tuesday (6 days ago).....seems like a nice guy to me. but then again we didn't discuss any of this!!!!

[Azrael256]

I am having a really hard time believing that 35 is bumper to bumper from Dallas to Austin. It isn't even that bad inside Dallas/FtWorth except maybe during rush hours. It isn't. The construction over the past year has made it a bit of a pain for me to drive from Dallas to Killeen, but it's an improvement project, so I'll deal with it.

Much of 35 South of Dallas is four-lane asphalt and nothing more. They barely have highway signs in some places. I think the road could use some serious improvement, but that is being done. Eight lanes would be nice, and some of the counties (Hill County, I'm looking in your direction) have a tendency to drop the ball on surface maintenance, but overall, the highway moves pretty smoothly. It gets a little exciting in some cities, but that happens. In most of the areas I have traveled, the highway cuts a wide swath through the countryside, so it wouldn't be difficult to increase the width. Many of the bridges, particularly the newer construction, look like they were built with eight lanes in mind.

South of Austin, in my limited experience, is a little bit more exciting, but I don't recall anything that made me think that a major rennovation, particularly one of this cost, is necessary. I'll grant that it has been six or seven years since my last trip down there, so things may well have changed dramatically.

I really can't figure out why improving the existing infrastructure is beyond the comprehension of these politicians.

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Used to be, only the taxes from highway fuels paid for roads. Inflation took care of that good idea.

I think that it was more the diversion of the funds to other uses than road buliding or maintenance that brought us this mess.

[RevDisk]

Question, the land this road is to be built on. Is every square inch owned by the government, or do they plan on building it through private property? How do they intend to 'acquire' all that private property? Swiping it from the citizens, or offering them a couple bucks they must accept at gunpoint? :scrutiny:

I have some buddies in Texas. If you told them to give up their land for "the greater good", you best be wearing high grade body armour.

[EghtySx]

They call it 'eminent domain". That means exactly what you said, offer a coupla bucks at gunpoint.

I am still having a little trouble with Spain wanting to come in and build. What do they have to do with it really? Are they planning to build factories in mexico and ship goods to the US?

Also, this seems to me to be like people wanting to be more international. These are people I don't like. I see it mostly with people on the coasts doing things like europeans to be more international. This is America, widely reguarded the greatet country on earth, why do they want to change it to be like countries that people are leaving to come here? More to the point, I dont like the idea of changing Texas to be like anyone. I like Texas being Texas. I like it better than any other place on earth in any country. If you don't like Texas or the US or wherever you are, move the hell out and leave the reast of us alone.

[duckslayer]

Revdisk,

The state will use taxpayer money and use eminent domain to take the land, and then lease it to the toll authority, which will then charge a toll that will pay for the construction of the road, plus the lease cost of the right-of-way. So in essence, we get to pay for the land twice. :(

I am also skeptical of their claim that the existing I35 cannot be widened to solve the traffic flow.

I35 is quite frequently a parking lot in several places on weekends between Dallas and Austin, especially on holidays. As much as I dislike traveling on that road, I believe this is not a cost effective answer to the problem.

[Jalexander]

Question, the land this road is to be built on. Is every square inch owned by the government, or do they plan on building it through private property? How do they intend to 'acquire' all that private property? Swiping it from the citizens, or offering them a couple bucks they must accept at gunpoint?

Good question. And the answer is no, the government doesn't own most of it. The plan is to buy all the land required at 'fair market value', but when I went to one of the TXDOT-sponsored TTC meetings, no one could tell me what 'fair market value' might mean. The representatives did say that independent contractors would assess the value of each piece of property that would be required. However, what does 'independent' really mean? If the TTC is paying the bills, I'd say that the assessment is going to favor them. And since the project is going to require 584,000 acres to finish, that's going to be a great deal of money just to buy the land.
Lots of folks don't want this monstrosity anywhere near them. I don't, my neighbors don't, no one I know does. What's going to happen to the people who have ranches next to the TTC? Even if their property isn't divided, are they going to want to run cattle/sheep/goats/exotics on land next to a superhighway? I doubt anyone would want to buy land adjacent to a superhighway, except possibly a gas station or fast food joint. And since there won't be frontage roads, the opportunities to locate businesses along the TTC will be very limited.

Anyhow. I think it sucks. There're better ways to do the same thing.

James

[mons meg]

Please, please, please, Texas....vote this down if possible. Oklahoma is infested with turnpikes. I-44 from OKC to Tulsa is the best mowed (mown?) highway for sure, with only the most expensive designer concrete barriers running all 90+ miles...we wouldn't want to show a budget surplus from those excessive tolls, now would we?

And yet...I-35 north to Kansas and south to DFW is free and handles much the same heavy truck traffic, yet it fails to fall apart. hmmmm

[LawDog]

*snort*

The proponents of this monstrosity want to expand the number of courts in Texas who can hear eminent domain cases, because right now we don't have enough who can do it.

That tell you anything?

Not only do they want to acquire land over which this thing is going to pass, they want to acquire land where it might pass sometime in the future.

In other words, if the commission decides that in fifty years they might want to put a branch of this thing over your land, take the money they offer or get ready to see them in court.

Any Farm-to-Market raod, Ranch-to-Market road, county road or state road which bisects this thing will have to do so by way of an overpass which completely clears the right-of-way.

How expensive do you think an overpass a quarter-mile in length is going to be?

Let's say you own a section of land or so that they run this thing over. There will be no way to go from your land on one side of the Corridor to your land on the other side of the Corridor unless you build an over-pass, fly over, or drive to the next exchange, cross over and drive back.

Not only will a private company own the Corridor, this private company will own all of the services on, or along, the Corridor. Gas stations. Hotels. Food stores. Restaurants. Litter boxes.

Since more than a few Texans are getting their knickers in a knot over this, the same law that authorized this boondoggle, also authorizes the State to make any road into a toll road.

US 287 is already paid for? Tough. It's a toll road now.

Right now, the plan is for trucking companies who don't use the Corridor to be required to pony up extra fees for the privilege of using other roads.

Any bets on how long it will take for everyone else to have to do the same thing?

The expected cost right ow is in excess of 180 billion dollars. Never mind that these things never finish under budget, that's 180 billion dollars that's going to have to be paid...by the citizens of Texas. One way or another.

Going to be a big housecleaning in Texas Government next election, if I have anythig to say about it.

LawDog

[mons meg]

Wow....I guess everything really IS bigger in Texas, including toll road boondoggles!

LawDog, do they have a provision in the law that will say that all the toll money from all the toll roads is a "community chest" such that if *any* toll road is unpaid for, they can continue to charge on *all* toll roads (like Oklahoma). The result being, new roads are always being proposed and built.

[Deavis]

I'll come out and say it, I love toll roads. After living in Houston and using the Sam Houston Tollroad, there is no better way to get around town than to hit a tollroad. Why? Simple, everyone who is an idiot and does not properly evaluate how much their time is worth per hour is sitting over in a parking lot called I-45. It takes less than 30 minutes to go from the Woodlands to downtown and costs $2. So you save an hour of driving for the cost of $4... Hmm... Economics 101 says I-45 is a rip-off unless you are making sub-minimum wage.

The beauty of a toll-road, when properly implemented, is that you have a choice of using it or the toll free highway right next/near to it. I have absolutely no objections to a company building a tollroad as long as after it is paid for the toll is either reduced to just the amount needed for maintenance or it is removed all together and the public takes over maintenance costs. You are getting roads paid for by people who WANT to pay for them.

That being said, the conversion of public highways already built into toll-roads is crap. The idea that the roads they convert and build would remain tollroads forever is ridiculous. Then again, if people don't get out there and vote those people out of office, what can we do? If they could assure me that a tollroad across Texas would be properly managed and would have a reasonable speed limit, I'd go for it. As of now, I don't think this is anything other than a money grab.

mons meg: I went through Oklahoma on the turnpikes, man that was the smoothest and fastest ride I've ever enjoyed. I didn't know there was a speedlimit on them until the lady at the booth told me I might want to slow down because it looked like I was going a little fast... I was in heaven for a little while and so was my GSX-R :evil:

[EghtySx]

I dont think the toll has anything to do with it. I know for me it doesn't. I just don't want this foreign monstrosity running through Texas. I don't care how rich it makes Rick Perry and his cohorts.

[Smoke]

I went to one of the meetings. One of the routes proposed cuts through Bosque County (actuallly two, depending how you look at it). Most of my land would be out of it.....but one parcel and possibly my home would not.

The idea stinks. I-35 (E or W) in the DFW metroples is not bad. WHen they join up just north of Hillsboro and points South is when it really goes to hell. From Georgetown to Sanantone is especially bad. I avoid this area like the plague.

Does something need to be done? Without question. I35 is wide open and could be widened North of Hillsboro...points to the south are more crowded and places it just couldn't happen. Skyway in Austin may be an idea for handling more traffic in the cities and just widen the roads in the more rural areas.

Art had the best idea though....everybody whose folks weren't here prior to the turn of the century (1900's not 2000's) just go home. :neener:

Smoke

[Art Eatman]

I don't claim to really have enough knowledge about this particular project to really be for or against, except it does seem a bit grandiose in format. I will say that the ownership/leaseback/fees and such offer a lot of opportunity for corruption.

It won't be much of an economic boon to local communities unless there are entry/exit ramps. That's a given. One thing I've never liked about the Florida turnpike is the limited access and the turnpike authority's monopoly on rest-stops and restaurants and gasoline sales. Higher prices than if there were competition.

As far as eminent domain purchases by government: If one is not pleased with the offered price, there is the option for a jury to hear the plea for a higher price. It is typical for juries to be sympathetic to those who protest the state's offer.

As far as diversion of monies from highway trust funds: Yeah, that's happened. But the taxes per gallon for both state and federal aren't a lot higher than when diesel fuel for dozers and turnpulls was $0.20 a gallon. In the spring of 1974, cement went from $4/bbl to $11/bbl and it ain't got cheaper. China used 53% of the world's supply of cement, last year, and 44% of the steel. Checked those prices, lately?

Highway capacity is a nationwide problem. I-75 from Lake City, FL, to the Ohio line is getting rebuilt to three lanes each way in the rural areas; six lanes each way on the north side of Hotlanta, GA. I see a lot of third-lane additions on I-10 in east Texas and in parts of Louisiana and Mississippi.

Art

[jsalcedo]

I drive 35 from San Antonio to Kansas city twice each year to visit family.
It is nice to be able to stay on one road the whole way but I always leave at
7pm and drive it at night to avoid all the congestion. The 35W that loops around Ft worth is a lifesaver as well.

IMO the toll road is a bad idea. Why not use the current infrastructure and
get 35 some upper decks for getting through congested areas.

The private property issues are enough to make me against the plan.

[Art Eatman]

The problem with double-decking, aside from cost per mile, is cleaing accidents. Anything really serious and you can have some folks who die who otherwise might have had an ambulance arrive in time...

Cloverleaf overpasses are bad enough. I still remember the ammonia tank-truck that fell off the I-610 overpass over US 59 in Houston. Lotsa dead.

For the money, odds are that a four- or six-lane parallelling I-35 from somewhere north of Georgetown to somewhere not far south of SanTone would solve most of the problems of north-south travel in Texas.

But this super-highway isn't the first Giant Boondoggle in Texas. At one time, there was a big push to make the Trinity River navigable all the way to DFW. I remember a railroad bigwig saying that if the feds would give him the same amount of money, he'd build a double track from DFW to Houston, invest the leftover money, and haul freight for free.

We've got more than our fair share of folks whose motto seems to be, "Think big, but think stoopid." As always, cui bono? Cherchez le $$$.

:), Art

[Sergeant Bob]

Lawdog The proponents of this monstrosity want to expand the number of courts in Texas who can hear eminent domain cases, because right now we don't have enough who can do it.
As if that's not bad enough, it's exercising eminent domain for the profit of a private business from another country.
Any Farm-to-Market raod, Ranch-to-Market road, county road or state road which bisects this thing will have to do so by way of an overpass which completely clears the right-of-way.

How expensive do you think an overpass a quarter-mile in length is going to be?

Let's say you own a section of land or so that they run this thing over. There will be no way to go from your land on one side of the Corridor to your land on the other side of the Corridor unless you build an over-pass, fly over, or drive to the next exchange, cross over and drive back.

Not only will a private company own the Corridor, this private company will own all of the services on, or along, the Corridor. Gas stations. Hotels. Food stores. Restaurants. Litter boxes.
As this road will probably be built along the route of some existing highway, any business which is situated along that route will be toast (unless it has an exit, even then survival is questionable).
Since more than a few Texans are getting their knickers in a knot over this, the same law that authorized this boondoggle, also authorizes the State to make any road into a toll road.
Little known fact.
Any bets on how long it will take for everyone else to have to do the same thing?
Once other politicians see an opportunity to milk that cash cow, they will squeeze it until it's dry.
The expected cost right ow is in excess of 180 billion dollars. Never mind that these things never finish under budget, that's 180 billion dollars that's going to have to be paid...by the citizens of Texas. One way or another.
Does anyone think the tolls will go away once the road is paid for? Highly unlikely. Once the Pols get to shaking that money tree, it's awfully hard to get them to stop(see Illinois: I-294 where the truck tolls have gone up over 350%. The trip went from $7.15 to $23.50). Before the increase the Illinois Toll Road Authority was bringing in (IIRC) about a million dollars a day (follow the money). The only places I know of where the tolls were actually removed once a road was paid for is Kentucky and West (by God) Virginia.
Going to be a big housecleaning in Texas Government next election, if I have anythig to say about it.
Even if you're not from Texas, you'd better be paying attention because it could be happening near you.

[TheDutchman]

Email a Rep's Chief of Staff and received this replyoh yes. we're preparing for the worst. on the subject of TTC-35. We need wider roads yes but, a whole new road does not need to be built that we will regret 10 years later and have to end up pay for with Tax money. Check out the Big dig in Boston yeah.

[Selfdfenz]

They can't widen I35 but they can buy a 1/4 mile swath from San Antonio to Dallas and build a super hi-way. And 35 stays unimproved because...?

ANS-The more 35 sux in the minds of our gov and hi-way profiteers the better is their justification for the hi-way robbery scheme. Boondoggel (sp?) does not begin to define this. Worse even than the Superconducter Supercollider.

Come on guys, let's put on those thinking caps.

TX citizens deserve and should demand better roads, and not toll roads, and either get them or clean out that that bunch in Austin next time they belly up to the vote-a-matic.



S-

[Daniel T]

Little known fact.

Not so little known in Austin anymore. We're in the midst on an attempted recall on the mayor and half the city council. If you live in Austin, get yer butt to the polls on May 7th.

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

As far as diversion of monies from highway trust funds: Yeah, that's happened. But the taxes per gallon for both state and federal aren't a lot higher than when diesel fuel for dozers and turnpulls was $0.20 a gallon


Under provisions of the Omnibus Budget Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1990 (OBRA90) (24) the tax rate on highway and motorboat fuels was increased by five cents per gallon. Thus, the tax increased from 9 to 14 cents per gallon of gasoline. Half of the increase in revenues from the gasoline tax imposed on highway use vehicles was dedicated as additional funding for the Highway Trust Fund. The remaining half in revenues was deposited in the General Fund and dedicated for federal deficit reduction. Of the 2.5-cents increase dedicated to the Highway Trust Fund, one-half cent was dedicated to the Mass Transit Account in that trust fund.

As a percentage of the cost of a gallon of gas the tax has more than doubled over the years, and with the vast expansion of the number of miles driven, the revenue has increased proportionately. Unfortunately about a third of the money was diverted to other uses up till 1997 such as deficit reduction. That's where our current problems stem from IMO.

http://www.ncseonline.org/NLE/CRSreports/Transportation/trans-24.cfm?&CFID=8539261&CFTOKEN=71797464

[Deavis]

If you live in Austin, get yer butt to the polls on May 7th.

Another good reason to hit the polls in Austin is the smoking ban they want to enact. I don't like second hand smoke but I REALLY can't stand some busy body activist telling a business who they can and cannot cater to simply because that activist thinks they have the right not to breath smoke. If you don't want to breathe the smoke, don't go to a bar that allows smoking. GAH! My blood pressure is rising already. :cuss:

[Art Eatman]

CHL, the problem is that the rate of increase in construction and ROW costs has notably exceeded the rate of income from the tax. Diesel has gone from 20¢ to over two bucks. ROW that once cost not-much per acre is now over $1,000 and on up well beyond that. Just since 1990 I've seen land costs rise from $300/$400/acre to $3,000/acre. The world price of steel doubled in the last couple of years. My 1978 Case backhoe sold new for about $20K. I can get a new one for $44K. I don't even want to think about what Mr. Caterpillar is charging, these days.

As I look as these various numbers and look at highway project bid costs, I just don't see how the present fuel tax structure can support our needs. But, as usual, TANSTAAFL. If ya wanna play, you're gonna pay.

I dunno. I don't have an answer for all these problems. I occasionally can figure out when somebody else's answer ain't worth listening to. :) The more I hear of El Camino Gigantico, the less I like it.

Just to pay lip service to THR, I remember when a Model 70 retailed for $54.00 and no sales tax. :D

Art

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Just since 1990 I've seen land costs rise from $300/$400/acre to $3,000/acre

I have priced land around Texas over the years and I don't dispute what you're saying about about runaway costs. It looks like land and material costs all skyrocketed at the same time the taxes were being increased and then diverted.