indoor range - no reloaded ammo ???


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scottgun
May 2, 2005, 12:06 PM
I recently went to an indoor range, both rifle and pistol. One of the range rules was that no reloaded ammo is allowed. They checked our ammo before entering the range.

My question is why don't they allow reloads. I didn't get a chance to ask the guys at the range, so I was hoping someone here could enlighten me.

thanks.

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Greg L
May 2, 2005, 12:09 PM
So they could sell you those little boxes behind the counter.

TC66
May 2, 2005, 12:10 PM
I must agree. It is so they can sell you their ammo and make more money.

Chut1st
May 2, 2005, 12:11 PM
My guess would be the potential liability for them if someone fires an overpressure load that causes a catastrophic failure. The potential for injury to a bystander would be the concern.

There have been threads on THR about such failures that turn the firearm into a grenade.

Just my $.02

scottgun
May 2, 2005, 12:13 PM
Makes sense, kind of like the movie theater and bringing your own food.

But, I can just as easily bring my own factory ammo with me. They didn't say no 'outside' ammo allowed, only no reloads.

Not disagreeing with you Greg and TC66, only trying to figure out why.

Werewolf
May 2, 2005, 12:24 PM
Question?

How they gonna know?

If you reload and keep the brass sorted by manufacturer it's pretty easy to just put your reloads back into a manufacturers box.

OTOH - I'd just go somewhere else.

GreenFurniture
May 2, 2005, 12:25 PM
Ok, let me chime in here as a range owner.

Some insurance companies will not allow the use of certain brands of ammo, or reloaded ammo.

Reason? Liability. They don't want the headache of settling a claim when someone doesn't load their rounds correctly and on accident either blows themselves up or causes harm to someone in the next lane.

It has nothing, let me repeat that, nothing to do with them wanting to sell you their own ammo.

Billy Sparks
May 2, 2005, 12:25 PM
The indoor range I shoot at only allows factory loaded ammo. The reason they state is liability concerns.

scottgun
May 2, 2005, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the replies. Liability always seems to be the keyword these days. Makes sense though, especially if you are putting others at risk.

I asked my friend I went to the range with about this, and he thought that reloaded ammo might be dirtier and not good for the ventiliation system. This didn't make any sense, especially when you can buy Wolf factory ammo, which is pretty dirty.

HankB
May 2, 2005, 12:51 PM
Sometimes, certain ammo may be restricted - armor piercing, tracer, steel jacketed, or explosive - for obvious reasons.

And perhaps insurance provisions keep the range owner from selling his own reloads.

But when it comes to prohibiting someone from bringing and using THEIR OWN reloaded ammo in THEIR OWN guns, it has everything, let me repeat that everything to do with them wanting to sell you their own ammo.

Father Knows Best
May 2, 2005, 01:44 PM
Guys, let it go. It's all about insurance. In some places, you cannot get liability insurance unless you prohibit use of reloads. In other places, you may be able to get insurance without a "no reload" policy, but you'll pay higher premiums for it. The concerns are: (1) that reloaded ammo does not have the same quality control as factory ammo; and (2) if the ammo causes an injury, factory ammo has a company behind that will likely bear a large portion of the liability (with reloads, the insurer will bear the entire liability).

I reload. A lot. I have two Dillon presses (RL550B and SL900). I crank out something on the order of 10,000 pistol cartridges and 10,000 shotshells annually. I believe in reloading and I like doing it. I shoot with a lot of other guys who reload as much or more than me. Still, I know the risks. Whenever I witness a squib round on the range, it is ALWAYS a reload. Something happened and the case didn't get any (or enough) of a powder charge. Squibs lead to blown up guns when you pull the trigger on the next round without realizing there is a bullet stuck in your barrel. I've also seen double charges, some of which have severely damaged guns and resulted in injury to the shooter.

There ranges are not requiring you to use THEIR ammo. They let you buy ammo elsewhere and bring it in. It's not about making bucks from ammo sales. If it was, they would only let you shoot their own ammo that you bought from them.

If you have a commercial range that lets you shoot reloads, that's great. If you don't, it's because their insurance company prohibits it.

jefnvk
May 2, 2005, 01:44 PM
But when it comes to prohibiting someone from bringing and using THEIR OWN reloaded ammo in THEIR OWN guns, it has everything, let me repeat that everything to do with them wanting to sell you their own ammo.

But, as mentioned, they let you bring in factory ammo, so that probably isn't the case.

Just think about the mall ninja next to you trying out his new Ultra Mag loads loaded 25% hotter than the max load in the reloading book, 'because everyone knows those are low numbers to keep them from getting sued, and guns can handle much more than that'. Now think about the bolt lertting go and shrapnel catching you in the head.

I'd agree if it were no outside ammo, but I am pretty much guessing it is liability.

JohnBT
May 2, 2005, 04:48 PM
The indoor range here requires you to buy their ammo. They aren't very busy either. :)

I was told that an accident, and the new insurance costs, precipitated the policy. I saw what was left of the magazine that blew out of the gun. Unfortunately, the shooter had his off hand cupped under the gun when it blew. The doctor bill ran $13k or $17k or somesuch way back when.

John

DWS1117
May 2, 2005, 05:38 PM
Most of my shooting is done at an indoor range. This range also has the no reload policy. They do not require that you shoot thier ammo, but if you decide to they have a nice selection of factory ammunition and reloads all at reasonable prices.

It may not be the someone pinch me I must be dreaming range but it is a good range with good honest people working there and that's why they get my money.

Monkeyleg
May 2, 2005, 06:02 PM
My buddy's range policy is no reloads, but none of the clerks ever ask me to see my ammo. They do it to other people, so I guess they know me well enough and let it slip through.

And it is the insurance issue with them.

Standing Wolf
May 2, 2005, 08:23 PM
I'd shoot somewhere else.

Moonclip
May 2, 2005, 08:36 PM
I know of a range nearby that allows no outside ammo at all! Needless to say your reloads are not welcome. I used to operate a indoor range and I came very close to not allowing customer reloads. To be honest that was partly due to customers taking advantage of the fact we charged no surcharge for coming in for $10 for as long as you want and people bringing in all their own ammo, large amounts of it Wolf, Blazer and poor quality reloads and shooting for hours(no time limit) and not even buying a target!

We eventually had to modify the prices but it was too little, too late. Anyhow the main reason though for a possibe prohibition on reloads was a group of the worse group of offenders in being cheap reloading some hot 45LC ammo and blowing up a gun. It injured a friend of his and he actually sued his friend!

I have a feeling the guy also got a cheap contingency lawyer sniffing around to sue us too but the laywer probably backed off when he saw we did not really have any money. As I used to tell the local gangbager types that seemed to be casing the range, believe me, we have nothing worth stealing here, especially to risk being in a gunfight with customers and employees you knew to be armed and when there was a higher than normal percentage of law enforcement customers.

Do you see any of us driving Mercedes or Jag I told them, we barely get by. All a robbery would net you is some beat up very high round count rental guns and less than a 1000 bucks.

Don't get me wrong, there is some excellent reloaders out there and one of the customers ammo he used to reload was excellent and I would not hesitate to shoot it. But the above story might show you why some ranges are a bit unhappy about customer reloads.

scottgun
May 2, 2005, 09:07 PM
I personally don’t reload, but I do buy bulk reloaded .223 ammo at gun shows. I’ve really only had problems with 2 out of 1000 rounds with the primer popping out, one time getting stuck in the trigger of my AR15, ending the day of shooting.

I don’t mind following their range rules, it’s their property and they are bearing the liability. Although it is kind of expensive, 20 bucks for an hour. In the winter, indoor shooting is a lot more comfortable. For those occasions, I’ll pay a little more for factory ammo, and abide by their rules. It’s a nice range, new, clean and friendly. I guess if anything might go wrong, they will make a rule to make sure it doesn’t. Makes sense.

In the summer, I’ll head up the canyon and shoot reloads on Nat’l Forest land, without the benefit of motorized, measured targets, individual lanes and all the amenities. But with the benefit of shooting in any position I want, switching between pistols and rifles, for as long as I wish.

thanks again for the input

aerod1
May 2, 2005, 09:30 PM
The indoor ranges where I shoot have no problem with reloads. I hope it stays that way!!

Jim

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