Mauser "tanker"... practical?


PDA






STAGE 2
May 2, 2005, 02:21 PM
Mitchell's is offering a shortened version of their yugo mausers, but it is newly produced, not 50 year old surplus. Without getting into whether or not you think Mitchells is over priced or whether yugo mausers are "authentic" or not, what kind of affect will the shortened barrel have on the performance of the rifle. I like the idea of having a big round in a compact package as I do alot of camping/hiking, but if the recoil is ridiculous and the range is pathetic I'd rather stick with what Ive got now.

So, to simplify what I just said, what do ya'll think the effective range would be, and how much muzzle flip? Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mauser "tanker"... practical?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bwana John
May 2, 2005, 02:47 PM
I love my FR-8, a Spanish Mauser Mod 98 .308 that has a little CETME barrel on it, and I thought the "Tanker" Yugo 98's in 8mm were really cute.

cidirkona
May 2, 2005, 02:49 PM
Gotta link? I've been thinking about chopping mine... It's not like we're going to run out anytime soon...

-Colin

dfariswheel
May 2, 2005, 08:50 PM
Over the years, a number of countries used Mauser carbines.
One good example was the FN-made Model 1924/30 as produced for Columbia.

These were originally 7.65mm, and were later converted to 30-06.

These carbines had 17 1/2" barrels.

I used to own one, and while muzzle blast was enhanced, the recoil and blast was not unmanageable.

cidirkona
May 2, 2005, 09:13 PM
How long is the barrel on my m44? That little guy is a blast (literally) to shoot!

-Colin

cracked butt
May 3, 2005, 02:27 AM
I saw the short little mauser in thed last Issue of American Rifleman. I think its would be a neat rifle to shoot, but for the $~500 Mitchells Gougers price, one could simply cut down a M48 and buy 4 or 5 thousand rounds of ammo easily and be just as happy.

noonanda
May 3, 2005, 02:46 PM
Gotta link? I've been thinking about chopping mine... It's not like we're going to run out anytime soon...

Didnt they used to say this about all those old 1898 Krags, 1903 springfields, garands and vet bring back German mausers and Japanese Arisakas as well as a ton of other imported rifles??.

It is your rifle to do with as you please, but do also remeber that these rifles are not an infinite supply, nor are they still making them(other than the Mitchells chopshop of horrors).

If you want a shorter one, you should buy one so you have a short version with no historical signifigance and a original rifle that was carried by some shmoe trying to protect his country.

MilsurpShooter
May 3, 2005, 02:57 PM
http://www.mitchellsales.com/rifles/m63%20tanker/index.htm

jefnvk
May 3, 2005, 05:24 PM
For $500, I'd do it yourself.

Didnt they used to say this about all those old 1898 Krags, 1903 springfields, garands and vet bring back German mausers and Japanese Arisakas as well as a ton of other imported rifles??.

Yep. No one would think about hacking up a Krag or Springfield today. I wouldn't be suprised if 40 years down the road, people wern't saying 'wish I hadn't cut up this Yugo'

cracked butt
May 3, 2005, 08:35 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if 40 years down the road, people wern't saying 'wish I hadn't cut up this Yugo'

Its laughable, but probably true :evil:

Sactown
May 3, 2005, 08:51 PM
You should look at a Mosin Nagant M38 as another option. Really handy small rifle with excellent power.

DT Guy
May 3, 2005, 08:52 PM
Maybe it's just me...but $500 for a brand new Mauser in perfect condition doesn't seem THAT bad.

I'd love to find the same deal on an Enfield, for instance...


Larry

Cosmoline
May 3, 2005, 09:08 PM
The Mauser carbines tend to be real collector's items, though I don't know if these guys are or not. Certainly $500 would be a fair price for many other Mauser carbines. I had an Iranian Mauser carbine once--just like the one Saddam used to shoot off for the crowds. I found recoil to be rather intense and accuracy so-so. But there's no denying it made a sweet truck rifle.

Check out this website:

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/

jefnvk
May 3, 2005, 09:24 PM
Maybe it's just me...but $500 for a brand new Mauser in perfect condition doesn't seem THAT bad.

It does when many other importers offer very, very good examples for $150-$200. Not too bad for a new bolt gun, but looking at the market, it does seem a bit steep.

The Mauser carbines tend to be real collector's items, though I don't know if these guys are or not.

No doubt, but these are chop-ups done here in America recently. Nothing more than a bubba job that they charge more for.

cracked butt
May 3, 2005, 10:30 PM
They certainly aren't worth $500 and aren't any more collectable than a remington 700.

Cosmoline
May 3, 2005, 10:40 PM
Cracked Butt is right. I've poked into the matter and it appears to be a bit of a scam. These are NOT genuine vintage Mauser short rifles. They are recent production from Zastava in Serbia. That doesn't mean they're no good, but they aren't worth that price. They are modern hack jobs:

------------
ZASTAVA LK M48/24, M48/63

This family of sporting rifles ZASTAVA is made on the basis of refurbished military rifle M48 in two versions M48/24 and M48/63.

http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/english/civilni.htm

kfranz
May 4, 2005, 09:27 AM
I wouldn't be suprised if 40 years down the road, people wern't saying 'wish I hadn't cut up this Yugo'

That's why you buy 10 and only chop up one or two... :)

armoredman
May 4, 2005, 10:12 AM
This is done by the factory? So, how can it be Bubbad, if buit by the original arsenal? This isn't a Century hack and smash, nor is it a true one-of-a-kind Bubba basement mutiliation, but a build on original reciever at the arsenal, similar to Finns using Izzy and Sesty recievers to build M39 Mosins, or the Russians reusing 1891 recievers to build Dragoons, to 91/30s, and later 91/59s.
The price is high, to those of us used to $125 Mauser. Compared to other NEW production bolt actions, the price doesn't seem so crazy.
If you want an original piece of history that isn't chopped, get a Russian capture K98 Mauser and a Mosin M38, for about $200 for both. But, if you like short rifles, have money, then go for it. Bubba didn't do it.

Ash
May 4, 2005, 10:46 AM
It isn't a military carbine. It's chopped at the factory, which did produce the originals, but is taking the original late 1940's early 1950's rifles and chopping them down today. The carbine remains a sporter and not a military rifle and as such, it will be valued in that realm down the road. If Izmash started chopping 91/30s into sporters, they would be done at the factory that produced the originals. Yet, the rifle would remain nothing more than a sporter. These carbines are fundamentally no different that what Golden State Arms did years back to Enfields, except Golden didn't produce the rifles.

Mitchell's is a scam that lies to its customers. They imply the Yugoslav rifles are made in 1944 because that is the date on the crest. The fact remains, that is the date the Yugoslav peoples republic came into being, not when the rifle was produced. They know this is true, and yet sell the rifles at high prices implying they are WWII Mausers just like the Nazi's carried. The fact is that the very same rifles can be had from other importers who don't lie about their provenance and sell them for much, much, much less.

These chopped rifles may not be quite bubba, but they are not military carbines. An M38 or M44 is a legitimate carbine, as would an 1894 Swiss or any other true carbine. For the price, these carbines, in my opinion, are nowhere near worth it. Buy a Yugo from Aim, SOG, or some other company and save the money.

cracked butt
May 4, 2005, 11:13 AM
The only way I'm paying that price is if its offered in a package as issued to the officers of the secret, and till now, unkown Croat S.S. division. It should come in a genuine velvet lined wooden box with 'Mitchell's Mausers' and 'K98' woodburned in the box in Germanic script. There should also be included a genuine Iron Cross medal that is serial numbered to the rifle, and to the box, so that there could be no question of the package's authenticity. :D

pinetree64
May 4, 2005, 12:45 PM
I think they are cool. Perfect woods carbine built on a great action shooting a versatile cartridge. BUT, there is no way I'd pay $500 bucks for one of these. If they were orginals, maybe they'd be worth the price. Though I own several Mausers, I bought an M38 to have a light and handy carbine.

For a new gun, look at the CZ carbines in 7.62x39.

tjg

Carl N. Brown
March 15, 2006, 07:02 PM
Back in the sixties I "semi-sporterized" a Mauser.

NEVER AGAIN.

Even the most beat up old military rifle if anywhere near
issue configuartion no matter how beat up is a piece of
history and should never, ever be bubbaized.

If already "bubbaized" they do make great shooters, but
more has been lost than has been gained.

Muncus Agruncus
March 15, 2006, 07:04 PM
OMG I was just about to post a thread enquiring about the Tanker in .308!

Ad Astra
March 15, 2006, 08:14 PM
Wasn't there a "camel carbine" sawed-off 8mm Iranian or Egyptian? rings a bell...the idea is a good one, though. Like an M38 with a smoother bolt. 8mm is still .10 a round and will be for a while.

And yeah, the tanker is way overpriced. That thing about the serialized Iron Cross cracked me up, though. Maybe Mitchells should wood-burn SS runes on 'em to scotch all the doubting Thomases.

Someday a perfect Yugo Mauser with all accessories will be worth $300, but not for a while.

TexAg
March 16, 2006, 12:13 AM
Seems pretty cool to me, a brand new Mauser, in 4 different US calibers to choose from, only 37.2" long, rugged, reliable, all steel and wood, iron sights, for $495. There aren't many other new, short carbines with all that in such calibers as .30-06 or .308 and a five round magazine. I think one in .308 would be nice. The CZ's MSRP is $600 and 7.62x39 is the largest caliber its offered in.

rangerruck
March 16, 2006, 12:17 AM
it is very, very good, however you must put on a slip on recoil pad at the least, or your shoulder will tell tales on you!

Hawkmoon
March 16, 2006, 12:44 AM
Maybe it's just me...but $500 for a brand new Mauser in perfect condition doesn't seem THAT bad.
For about $150 to $175 you can buy a Yugo 24/47, which is essentially a new rifle. They are 1924 models that were rebuilt to as-new condition after the war, put in storage, and never reissued. They are "short rifles" -- 23-1/2" barrel.

If you really want an even shorter Mauser, Sarco Inc. has barreled Mauser actions for under 50 clams. Buy a stcok, chopt the barrel to the length you want, and have fun. Heck at $50 for the action and maybe $75 for a stock, you can rebarrel it and still be way under Mitchell's inflated price.

cracked butt
March 16, 2006, 02:40 AM
Buy a $100 yugo M48.
Cut the barrel down with a pipe cutter
add a front sight
recrown


Voila, a shorter carbine.


For far less than $500 you could buy a Charles Daly mauser which is made in the same factroy, has much better fit and finish, and even add a scope if you want. ;)

TexAg
March 16, 2006, 11:16 AM
The Charles Daly rifles have been discontinued it seems, no longer imported.

cracked butt
March 16, 2006, 12:11 PM
...double post....

cracked butt
March 16, 2006, 12:12 PM
I know, remington will now be importing them.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798.asp

TexAg
March 16, 2006, 06:20 PM
Remington's MSRP is $599 for the smaller calibers with no iron sights, although I suppose it is drilled and tapped for a scope mount...and you'd still have to cut it down to be as small as the Tanker.
I can only think the best alternative to the Tanker is to get a k98 or Enfiled and rebarrel it (if you want, say .308), shorten the barrel and there you go. But then of course you are chooping up a mil-surp rifle...

cracked butt
March 17, 2006, 08:58 AM
Leave it up to Remington to screw up a good affordable rifle:rolleyes:

ball3006
March 17, 2006, 10:55 AM
(I never could figure out what "handy" meant with respect to guns) buy a Mosin Nagant M44. More powerful than a 308 and cheap, under 100 bucks. Cheap ammo too. And, the fold out bayonet makes a dandy rifle holder while you open your beer........Otherwise, can we brand a "B" for bubba on your forehead..........chris3

anotherinkling
April 7, 2006, 01:12 PM
I was looking at one of those Tanker Mausers as well. If you don't think of it as a fake collectible, it's not bad at all for the price. Looks good, has iron sights, comes in rounds you can easily pick up anywhere, strong, proven action, already cut for stripper clips (detachable mags would be nice, though), bayonet lug, very portable. Good to go out of the box. Not a bad pick if one doesn't have the time or inclination to do a bit of gunsmithing. I would be curious to know about accuracy, though. Is this a pie plate or a barn door gun at 200yds?

Atla
April 12, 2008, 09:14 AM
I'm planning on buying one.

For several reasons.

1. It is not a chopped up M48. It is a BRAND NEW MANUFACTURED rifle.
2. It would be a very dandy woods rifle, especially with a caliber selection.
3. Mitchell's lied about it being considered as a tank rifle, it's not. It's a sporting rifle, and was never considered to be used as a tank rifle. That is the only lie involved.
4. $500 is a pretty good price for a rugged and reliable bolt gun. A Mini-14 costs more than that, a Remington 700 is more, a Savage 110 is more, etc, etc.
5. It's just so 'cute'.

My suggestion is to keep an eye on auctionarms or gunbroker if you want to snag a deal on one. Sometimes they will go for around $400.... if you can catch one on there.

mudslinging79
April 12, 2008, 11:29 AM
mitchels rifles are refurbs cut down to carbine length.... in a nutshell. just pick one up at big 5 and cut it down, same thing for bout $200

cracked butt
April 12, 2008, 11:56 AM
$500 will still get you a decent Swedish 94/14 carbine which I guarantee is much better made than the Mitchell's rifle and it will only go up in value.

Mike 56
April 12, 2008, 12:06 PM
I think it is a sweet rifle but to much $$. I would find a Turk with cleaning rod were on the end of the barrel and cut it down if you look around you can find one cheap.

Mike

Atla
April 12, 2008, 12:31 PM
I just said it's not a cut down.

It's a brand new rifle, brand new action, brand new barrel, etc.

ElToro
April 12, 2008, 12:40 PM
get a FR8 you can get them under 300. mine shoots inside 12 inches with my bad vision and open sites with surplus ammo at 100yds.

last time i was looking at mitchells they had vintage overpriced k98s AND new factory made in serbia mausers.

or get an action cheap and build your own or have a gunsmith do it. you can get into a fun little project for <$500 OR skies the limit depending on your budget. in any caliber you want.

Mike 56
April 12, 2008, 01:06 PM
I realise it is not cut down but it is the same concept a lot old Mausers the only thing wrong with them is the rifling is worn at the last four inches of the bore. Add a set of receiver aperture sights and dovetail the barrel for a front fire sight and you have very effective rifle and a stock pile of ammo for the same price as the Tanker. The Tanker is essentially a custom Mauser for 500 dollars one has to wonder about the quality. How good is the new Barrel they are using and does it justify that price tag?

Mike

chauncey
April 12, 2008, 01:17 PM
i'd instead spluge, spend a little extra on a really nice M44, put a synthetic stock with a buttpad on it, and spend the $350 you have left over on ammo.

you probably won't see any significant difference in accuracy, you can restore the rifle if you want to, and the M44 action, although less refined, is probably more rugged than the Mauser.

Atla
April 12, 2008, 01:25 PM
Well... the M63 has several things going for it.

One, it's brand spanking new. And made with todays technology, not five decades ago. So the tolerances will be a lot better.

Two, it's available in several different calibers. People complain about the 8mm, well than get it in .308 or .243. Not to mention the other calibers are very popular American hunting calibers. No hard trick to find ammo for them.

And the Mauser is simply a better design than the Mosin. ;p

mudslinging79
April 12, 2008, 05:11 PM
there are so many different caliber barrels built for the mauser action, pretty much screw it on. well headspace, and other work, for the price of a mitchels, a mauser 98 and possibly 2 barrels, be like 3 rifles for the price of as mitchels.

dirtyjim
April 12, 2008, 05:22 PM
its a surplus action with a new barrel & stock & in my opinion its way overpriced.
if i wanted one i would build it myself because i'm cheap & i enjoy building my own rifles
a matching yugo m24/47 is about $145 shipped from J&G or good condition m24/47 from centerfire is $115 shipped.
if i wanted 8mm i would go with the matching rifle then shorten, recrown & re-install the front sight. if your not capable of doing the work yourself your gunsmith should do it for $65 or less.
any other caliber i would buy a a&b barrel for about $80 the re-contour it to the military profile & cut if off to the correct length.
depending on the condition of the stock i would either bleach it & refinish or buy a new one from boyds & cut the front section down to the correct lenth.
at $170 a new stock & hg from boyds would actually be the most expensive part of the build but i'm sure i could pick up a unissued stock for 1/4 of that or less.

LeibstandarteAdH
April 12, 2008, 08:07 PM
The only way I'm paying that price is if its offered in a package as issued to the officers of the secret, and till now, unkown Croat S.S. division. It should come in a genuine velvet lined wooden box with 'Mitchell's Mausers' and 'K98' woodburned in the box in Germanic script. There should also be included a genuine Iron Cross medal that is serial numbered to the rifle, and to the box, so that there could be no question of the package's authenticity.

The sad thing is thats not a joke, thats what they really do.

Atla
April 13, 2008, 03:47 PM
-sigh-

Guys.

It's a NEW action, new barrel, new stock, new sights, everything. Nothing on it is surplus nor 'chopped' or anything else.

The only problem with it, is that Mitchell's lies and says it was designed as a tanker rifle. It wasn't. It was designed as a civilian sporting rifle, because civies couldn't own military guns. The most obvious fact about this is that if it was designed to be a military gun, it wouldn't have so many different calibers. That and AK's are like $100 on the world market.

Yes - I suppose you could take a m24/47 or m48 and chop it down. And I reckon really there is nothing wrong with that, if you want to go the cheap way. But if you want to rechamber it for a different round - it's going to go up in cost.

-I- personally, don't want to. I'd prefer to have a nifty brand new woods rifle.

The price isn't astronomical, it's actually a fairly good price. A Mini-14 costs more, a Rem 700 and Savage 110/10 will be around the same price if not more.

So the only reason worth complaining about on this rifle, is Mitchell's false advertising. And hey - that happens. A lot, especially among mil-surp dealers.

Every shipment they get of ammo, rifles, pistols, gear, etc 'may be the last one so stock up now! OMG!'.

jimbeam
April 13, 2008, 04:11 PM
Atla, I have to admit that I was sorely tempted on a 8mm short rifle of which you describe. I thought it was well worth the money. When I came back the next day is was gone, so someone else also thought it was good to go. I have a couple of 27-47s and 2 k-31s and a mosin 44 but somehow this just looked and felt good, if you can get over the hype of Mitchells and military arms.

cracked butt
April 13, 2008, 04:39 PM
Try one of these instead- like I said in an earlier post, they are far better made than anything made by the Yugos, undoubtedly more accurate, a lot less recoil, and to top it off, they were the 'tanker' rifles of the day often used by cavalry units.

The best thing is that the one listed below probably won't sell for much more than $400 because it has been improved with a aperture sight.


http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=96673285

The price isn't astronomical, it's actually a fairly good price. A Mini-14 costs more, a Rem 700 and Savage 110/10 will be around the same price if not more.


I'll with hold what I think about mini-14s, but a rem 700 or a savage is a much better rifle than the yugo, what's more you can easily and readily mount a scope to them. If the barrel is too long on a remington, have a gunsmith shorten it to your liking for under $50.

Atla
April 13, 2008, 06:32 PM
Well... whether Rem's or Savage's are better or worse would be debatable I reckon. ;> I'd personally take a Savage over a Remington -anyday-.

But:

I suppose if you wanted to compare them, the Rem/Sav guns are the sort where you have a warranty and can send them back to the factory to be upgraded or serviced.

If you go with this M63 'Tanker', if theres a problem you can't fix yourself - it'll have to go to a gunsmith. I doubt you'll be able to ship it out of country to the Serbian Company that actually makes them(There name slips my mind at the time, it begins with a Z). The possible custom smithing repairs probably adds some price to the long run of owning this gun. It -may- be possible to switch parts with a mil-surp M48 or 24/47, but it's also possible you won't be able to.

This ain't a 'cheap gun' like most military surplus's. Thats part of the reason a lot of folks knock it. They think that if it's a mil-surplus, which it's not, that it should be cheap. Which it most definitely ain't....(Compared to other Mauser's, Mosin's, etc)

I plan on picking one up when the cash is gathered. In a month or two probably. I'll make a thread about it than.

But it seems a lot of bias on the gun comes from either Mitchell's BS advertising, the price, or simple ignorance of not doing the time and putting in some research on the gun.

For example - Here's an article on the M63 'Tanker' Mauser.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_10_51/ai_n14936901

Evidently it shoots -atleast- 1.5 MOA.

I say 'atleast' because I don't know the guys shooting skills, it may be possible to do better than that. Most guns shoot better than the shooter.

The standard trigger on the sample broke at 7.3 lbs. (You can upgrade to an adjustable if you'd like)

The rear sight only goes down to 200 yards. (Unfortunately). So it shoots high at 100 yds, which can be fixed with a Brownell's mauser front sight replacement.

The total length is 37", compared to the 43.5" on a M48.

And of course, total weight is 7.4 pounds.

It'd make an interesting 'Scout' platform, it won't fill all the requirements but then I've never been a big bipod fan anyways.

cracked butt
April 13, 2008, 09:06 PM
This ain't a 'cheap gun' like most military surplus's. Thats part of the reason a lot of folks knock it.

Many of my milsurps cost twice that or more, but I still knock it.

They think that if it's a mil-surplus, which it's not, that it should be cheap.
Its Yugoslavian and therefore should be cheap. This thing is priced as much as the Remington 798 which is made in the same factory but has sporter features and has the remington name inflation built into the price. But then again Mitchell's is well known for tripling the price of everyone else on selling the same goods.


But it seems a lot of bias on the gun comes from either Mitchell's BS advertising, the price, or simple ignorance of not doing the time and putting in some research on the gun.
Mitchell's is less than reputable- I'm biased as hell against them.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mauser "tanker"... practical?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!