The Big Bore Bulldog--The Great Missing Revolver


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Cosmoline
May 2, 2005, 05:15 PM
I've been hunting for a powerful snub revolver with a short barrel and OAL sufficiently short to fit in a large pocket. The only modern revolvers of this size are .38 Special or smaller. But lo and behold, I suddenly found exactly what I was looking for on Gunbroker. Problem is they stopped making it and the ammo for it a century ago. It's the old .44 Bulldog. The cartridge threw a huge slug at relatively low velocity, offering more than enough power to drop a foe at close range. Why did these wonderful revolvers stop getting made? They are exactly what I need to tote when I'm in the city.

http://nas2.gbhinc.com/GB/031071000/31071796/pix2177792236.jpg

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sarhog
May 2, 2005, 05:19 PM
Charter Arms makes a snub-nose 44 special. Bulldog (http://www.charterfirearms.com/bulldog.php)

GaryP
May 2, 2005, 05:53 PM
If you are interested in .44Spl the Charter Arms Bulldog will fit the bill. I was an Anchorage resident for 15 years (1984 - 1999) and carried one most of the time and still do here in North Carolina. I hope to get out of this Lower 48 rat race and back to Alaska soon -- I will not leave this time! :D


:evil:

P. Plainsman
May 2, 2005, 05:56 PM
Still, Cosmoline is onto an important mystery. The carry-sized five-shot .44 or .45 double action revolver should be much more available than it is. We get dribs and drabs -- the Charter Bulldog, the Taurus 445, the S&W 696 -- and they all develop strong cult followings. Yet you probably could not walk down to your local gun store today and find a single new, well-made "bulldog" on the shelf. Given all the zillions of 1911s out there (same big bore, slow bullet), the lacuna is striking.

Krag
May 2, 2005, 06:13 PM
Don't settle for second best. Get a real Webley Bulldog. Hornady is now offering brand new .455 Webley ammo. Ah, shades of Sherlock Holmes, the Kyber Pass, Gordon at Khartoum, Custer at the Little Big Horn............ :eek:

Beachcomber
May 2, 2005, 06:14 PM
Yet you probably could not walk down to your local gun store today and find a single new, well-made "bulldog" on the shelf.

Hell... I have trouble just finding factory .44 special loads locally! :banghead:
I think I'm going to have to break-down and start reloading.

Cosmoline
May 2, 2005, 06:16 PM
Yes, I've seen the Charter Arms .44 from time to time and I like them. But it's not exactly pocket size. The grip is almost twice the size of a 19th century Bulldog and the frame is K-frame size or even larger.

There's a fundamental difference in the design. The old big-bore "Bulldogs" were based off the same frame size that chambered .38 S&W, .32 and other little cartridges. The chambers were larger but the frame remained about the same size, with the classic undersized round butt grip designed not to stick out of a pocket too far.

Iggy
May 2, 2005, 07:10 PM
Wonder if some Indian used GAC's Bulldog for a breech clout back up gun? :confused: :rolleyes:

P. Plainsman
May 2, 2005, 07:20 PM
I want a "bulldog" for a car and/or house gun.

The one Charter 2000 Bulldog I handled was very rough. The Taurus .44s look like nice guns, esp. if you find a rare one without porting. The S&W 696, Lew Horton Special, and the like are just plain sweet.

OldWolf
May 2, 2005, 08:21 PM
Will this fit in your pocket? :neener:
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/229H.gif

Magnum88C
May 2, 2005, 08:28 PM
I don't know man, I've wanted a 5-shot big bore "belly gun" for a long time now. Seems the 696 went out of production about a year before I began my search.
Heck, I wouldn't mind a 5-shooter in .45 ACP, a little bigger, a little more powerful and a LOT more available than .44 Special.

Cosmoline
May 2, 2005, 08:29 PM
LOL That will bust through my pocket, not to mention the damage it will do to my wrist!

Standing Wolf
May 2, 2005, 09:11 PM
I think I'm going to have to break-down and start reloading.

Once you've mastered the fundamentals, you'll wonder why you didn't start loading your own years ago.

unspellable
May 2, 2005, 09:17 PM
I had a copy of the Taurus titanium five hole 44 Special snubby. I rather liked it, but it had a chamber alignment problem. Now if I could just find one with the chambers in the right place...

Gary in Pennsylvania
May 2, 2005, 09:37 PM
Look here my friend!

http://www.usfirearms.com/im/snubnose2.jpg


http://www.usfirearms.com/im/snubr_1.jpg



http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/snubnose.asp

HiWayMan
May 3, 2005, 08:44 AM
Cosmoline-

That is a beautiful Bulldog. They definately don't make them quite the same anymore. From what I read they used to be very popular, I can see why. I hope you find many more. Good hunting.




Gary in Pa. -

That is a nice looking piece. But the damn thing cost $1,295. And it is only a single action. What is the deal with US Firearms?? I'd have to get a second mortgage to afford one of there products.

MIkeMSM
May 3, 2005, 10:19 AM
G'Day Guys
I have a WW2 Bulldog (The low quality type that was dropped in the thousands over Europe during the war) It is missing some parts. I have a full machine shop. Does anybody have an exploded diagram or parts drawings for this era? I guess there were lots of variants.This one is the open the side cover and load the rounds one by one, no swing out cylinder. I would just like to make the little guy complete.
I also don't intend to load any modern powders in this thing (or shoot it really)as I dont know its history.

Thanks
Mike

mauser98
May 3, 2005, 10:50 AM
I have the mod445 in 44special. Is also offered in 45 colt. The 445 weighs 19 oz. empty. My loads are 225 gcswc 17 bhn, 8gr Unique @ measured 830 fps.
http://www.netwurx.net/~roxxi/mr1.jpg

Cosmoline
May 3, 2005, 05:26 PM
Gary, I've seen that snub single action and I like it, though the price is extremely high. I'm not sure why they're marketing it as a pre WWII vintage snub nose, since there are plenty of those still on the market and none of them are ANYTHING like their creation. I'm looking for something like the USFA single action, but in double action.

Looking back on my firearms over the ages, the closest I came to a Bulldog was the Taurus Model 450 snub nose .45 Colt. That was close to filling the bill.

BluesBear
May 4, 2005, 06:12 AM
Most of those old Webley abd British Bulldog revolvers were chambered in .442 not .455.

CDNN was recently selling the Taurus snubs in .45 acp and .45 Colt as was Davidson's. Sadly the .44 special models are no longer in the Taurus catalogue.

unspellable
May 4, 2005, 11:48 AM
A lot of the old British bulldogs were also chambered for the 44 Webley. I'm not sure what the fine points of distinction were between the 442 and the 44.

Now for the wild notion:

How about using the 44 Russian? This would allow a somewhat shorter frame than the 44 Special. In factory loads the 44 Russian just about duplicates the 44 Special ballistics. At present, all the 44 Russian commercial loads that I know of have a round nosed lead bullet and may not be loaded up to full house as they are used for cowboy shooting. So a good defensive load would require hand loading. But if it got popular enough, somebody would come up with a commercial defensive load.

50 Shooter
May 4, 2005, 11:55 AM
Just don't go Son of Sam on anyone with that Bulldog. ;)

rick_reno
May 4, 2005, 01:22 PM
Oldwolf wrote "Will this fit in your pocket?"

Oldwolf - do you have one of those Ruger Alaskans? If so, where did you get it and how do you like it? I'm looking for one.

On that little Bulldog - what's the OAL of the gun?

moxie
May 4, 2005, 03:23 PM
Works great. It ain't a S&W, but is OK. You wouldn't want a gun much smaller or lighter than that in .44 Special. The Pug barks and bites bad enough! I keep it loaded with Glasers indoors. Outdoors I use Blazer (Speer) 200 GDHP. Nary a problem.

foghornl
May 4, 2005, 03:28 PM
I like the looks of that Super Redhawk Alaskan, but just thinking about touching off the 454 Casull rounds in a hand cannon that small...OW! QUIT IT!

Now loaded up with something a bit hotter than 45 Colt Cowboy Action loads...Now you're talking.,

I had one of the Charter Bulldog .44's back in the mid-70's. Not a bad shooter, but man, was that .44Spl ammo pricey!

Vern Humphrey
May 4, 2005, 03:34 PM
I'd suggest the the reason there are so few "bulldogs" made today is that the same power is available in different packages. A snubbie .357 (for example, a Ruger SP 101) will do everything a .44 Special will do and makes a more concealable package.

On the other side of the house, the M1911 is eminently concealable, packs the same punch, and has more firepower. And there are now scads of mini-1911s avaliable for those who consider a full-size gun too much to carry.

P. Plainsman
May 4, 2005, 05:00 PM
I think that's basically right. However:

A snubbie .357 (for example, a Ruger SP 101) will do everything a .44 Special will do and makes a more concealable package.

The SP101 is a great gun and the .357 Mag a deadly round. But the .357 is also a true b*st*rd to touch off indoors. I tend to load my car and home defense .357s with .38+Ps due to fear of hearing loss / disorientation. That's not a recommendation, it's just a report.

I remember reading that the muzzle blast from a .44 Special is 10 decibels softer than the .357 Mag. That's significant. I would lean to a low-pressure, big bore defense revolver if they were available in more compact packages. Taurus had a great thing going with those stainless .45 ACP Trackers -- but they keep puttin' those darn ports on 'em, which defeats the principal advantage of the rig.

Vern Humphrey
May 4, 2005, 05:09 PM
The SP101 is a great gun and the .357 Mag a deadly round. But the .357 is also a true b*st*rd to touch off indoors. I tend to load my car and home defense .357s with .38+Ps due to fear of hearing loss / disorientation. That's not a recommendation, it's just a report.

I remember reading that the muzzle blast from a .44 Special is 10 decibels softer than the .357 Mag. That's significant. I would lean to a low-pressure, big bore defense revolver if they were available in more compact packages. Taurus had a great thing going with those stainless .45 ACP Trackers -- but they keep puttin' those darn ports on 'em, which defeats the principal advantage of the rig.

I agree -- but you don't HAVE to fire a .357 (or any other cartridge) indoors until you HAVE to shoot to protect your life. And in that case, the question of muzzle blast is the least of your worries.

And your point about porting the barrel is excellent -- if we consider the reduced report to be an advantage, Taurus has just thrown away a good selling point. :banghead:

In any case, you get all the advantages of the big bore revolver in a flatter package with more firepower in the M1911.

Magnum88C
May 4, 2005, 08:20 PM
In any case, you get all the advantages of the big bore revolver in a flatter package with more firepower in the M1911.

True, but two points:
1.) Some like revolvers better.
2.) Mini 1911s tend to be fussy. Much as I really hate to say it, one would probably be better off with a G36.

Vern Humphrey
May 4, 2005, 08:26 PM
1.) Some like revolvers better.

Yes, indeed. But apparently not enough people to creat a market for a small, large bore revolver. I suspect most who prefer revolvers for concealed carry gravitate to the .38 Special/.357 Mag.


2.) Mini 1911s tend to be fussy. Much as I really hate to say it, one would probably be better off with a G36.

Absolutely. All tilt barrel automatics are sensitive to sharp angles of tilt (which is what you get when you shorten the barrel.) Those people who have shortened the barrel of the M1911 tend to fail to understand that there's a lot more to it than simply lopping off the barrel and eliminating the barrel bushing.

If I were going to put a mini-.45 auto on the market, I think I'd start with a clean sheet of paper, and not even try to re-engineer the M1911.

sm
May 4, 2005, 08:41 PM
I had a Charter Arms .44 Bulldog back in late 70's early 80's.

Neat concept, I used it for a variety of things, from CCW, out walking the various farms, woods, to car / office/ around the house gun.

Mine shot loose. I bought mine to shoot. Granted not all my loads were factory fodder. I was not hot rodding the loads, just getting what the .44spl was supposed to be - not watered down.

My old gun, last I heard sits in a drawer in someone's office, kinda as "in case"... well he wanted it so folks working for him not familar with slide guns could use it if need.

Kinda partial to that slim 1911 myself.

Marshall
May 4, 2005, 08:45 PM
How about a USFA Snubnose in .45 Colt, 44 WCF or 44 Special? .38 choices too.


http://www.usfirearms.com/im/snubnose_sm.jpg




http://www.usfirearms.com/im/snubnose3.jpg

GaryP
May 4, 2005, 10:32 PM
How about a USFA Snubnose in .45 Colt, 44 WCF or 44 Special? .38 choices too.

Nice, but Too $,$$$! :(



:evil:

grendelbane
May 4, 2005, 11:14 PM
If you think that the grips on the Charter Arms Bulldog are too large, you can always replace them with smaller ones.

The old Charter made several different style grips, ranging from very skimpy wood panels to larger target type and even a couple of synthetic grips.

The grip straps on all of the Charter Arms guns were the same, so the grips are interchangeable. The skimpy grips that came on an Undercover or an Offduty will fit right on a Bulldog.

If you shoot Winchester Silver Tips, which usually traveled at 700 fps from my gun, and only weighed 200 grains, you might even be able to hang on to the Bulldog for a second shot. :what:

BluesBear
May 5, 2005, 12:47 AM
Unspellable, the .44 Webley and .442 RIC are the same cartridge.

Marshall
May 5, 2005, 08:45 AM
Oops, didn't see Gary in Pa's post on the USFA Snubnose until just now, sorry for the redundant post. :o

Gary in Pennsylvania
June 3, 2005, 09:33 PM
See here:

http://nas2.gbhinc.com/GB/032963000/32963098/pix1737702362.jpg

http://nas2.gbhinc.com/GB/032963000/32963098/pix1737702299.jpg

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=32963098


Pretty neat looking!

dgludwig
June 4, 2005, 03:34 AM
My recommendation for a powerful revolver you can still carry concealed is the Taurus snubnose (2 1/2" bbl.) in 41 Magnum ( the Taurus snubbies in 45 Colt and 45ACP have 2'' bbls. ). The recoil is managable in my steel framed model, even doing double taps with some practice, but I would be leery of this cal. in titanium. I am not fond of ported barrels as a rule but, in this application, it seems to be a worthwhile feature.

BluesBear
June 4, 2005, 11:59 PM
I often CCW an unported 2" Taurus .44 Special.

I would much prefer to carry my unported 2" Taurus .41 magnum except no one makes a speedloader for it.

Of course I don't feel undergunned at all with the .44.

Lloyd Smale
June 5, 2005, 06:27 AM
one of the sweetest shooting guns i own is my 696 smith .44 special. there getting a little pricey so if you want one youd better jump fast!

dgludwig
June 5, 2005, 08:26 AM
BluesBear: You might be interested in a speedloader made by Maxfire specifically for the five-shot Taurus .41 Mag. They sell in packages of two for $9.95, plus shipping from Dillon Precision Products, Inc.; @www.bluepress.com.

These aren't the "speediest" of speedloaders, but they're the only ones I've been able to locate for this revolver and they sure beat digging loose rounds out from your pocket in a reloading effort.

John Ross
June 6, 2005, 12:15 PM
Here's a modern rendition, with photo taken before the front sight blade was reinstalled on the shortened ramp.

http://www.john-ross.net/images/CCW500.jpg

It's a modern Bulldog or Howdah, as it will toss a 725 grain pure lead wadcutter at 800 FPS or a 510 wadcutter at 1000 FPS at pressures around 25,000 PSI. If you want full loads, 510s can be sent out at 1400 FPS.

I forget I'm wearing it in a SmartCarry.

JR

roo_ster
June 6, 2005, 12:25 PM
I, too own a Smartcarry. I even use it once in a while. It is amazing what you can stuff down your pants & conceal with one of them.

I suspect that a N-frame or X-frame S&W might elicit some commnetary, however.

seeker_two
June 6, 2005, 03:03 PM
It's a modern Bulldog or Howdah, as it will toss a 725 grain pure lead wadcutter at 800 FPS or a 510 wadcutter at 1000 FPS at pressures around 25,000 PSI. If you want full loads, 510s can be sent out at 1400 FPS.

725gr at 800FPS....that's a 1oz slug from a 12ga at about 75 yards.... :what:

Even Mae West would be glad to see you carrying THAT... :evil:

BluesBear
June 7, 2005, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the info dgludwig. However I tried one of those at a local shop (Bullseye). Now I consider myself to be above average in my proficiency with HKS and Safariland speedloaders. I am faster than anyone I know with Bianchi Speedstrips. But those Maxfire thingies are the clumsiest things I have tried since the original mid 1970's Safariland rubber ones.

They're easy enough to grab by that big ring alright, but they just give me fits trying to remove them. I'm dang near as fast with a drop box and loose rounds.

Nightcrawler
June 7, 2005, 09:44 AM
In any case, you get all the advantages of the big bore revolver in a flatter package with more firepower in the M1911.

You don't get all the advantages.

Number one, it's not a big-bore revolver.

I guess a bunch of us aren't strictly utilitarian in our guns. A revolver is kind of like a zippo lighter (which I have), or a manual transmission automobile (which I never learned to drive). Some people just like doing it the old fashioned way.

I know a bunch of motorheads that'll get up in arms if you tell them an automatic is better than a standard. It's the same way with handguns, I guess. One's sidearm is often a very personal choice, subject to whim and preferance more than strict necessity.

I mean, being perfectly utilitarian, even M1911 clones aren't the top choice as they're weight-ineffecient (compared to the newer polymer framed guns) and are more difficult to disassemble.

But we can't all go around carrying Glocks, can we? :D

dgludwig
June 7, 2005, 12:47 PM
BluesBear, your points are well taken. The only reason I even suggested the Maxi-Fires is because, to my knowledge, they're the ONLY "speedloaders" made for a 5-shot revolver (if anybody knows of another one, please advise :) in 41 Mag. cal.

You may already know this but when I first tried the MaxiFires(MF), my inclination was to strip the MF up and away after inserting the cartridges.That method doesn't work at all. What does work for me is MF's directions: Flat side of the loader should be against the gun. After inserting the rounds, pull the loader away from the gun with a sideways pull at a 90o angle, NOT UP or DOWN,(DON'T PEEL)...

In the best of circumstances, I would dub the MF a slowloader but better than no loader.

By the way BluesBear, how do you like your Taurus 415? Is yours in steel or titanium? Does anybody make the old (original) 41 "police" loads? I think the "downloaded" 41 Mag. would be the optimum cartridge for this revolver.

Gary in Pennsylvania
June 8, 2005, 12:37 PM
NICE! http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/pistols/armpr/arm283.jpg



AND CHECK OUT THIS BULLDOG LINK!:
http://members.aol.com/hrftx/Copies.htm (http://)
:what: :what: :what:

Gary in Pennsylvania
June 8, 2005, 12:39 PM
And look at this Hi-Res pic!!!!!!!!!!! ( dial-uppers beware )

http://www.adrianceauctions.com/images/Tulsa-Guns/4/Webley_Bulldog.JPG

Gary in Pennsylvania
June 8, 2005, 12:49 PM
AND these are even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.gundealer.net/michaelmiller/pistols.htm

JoeHatley
June 8, 2005, 09:23 PM
I've been hunting for a powerful snub revolver with a short barrel and OAL sufficiently short to fit in a large pocket.

Don't overlook the S&W 325PD

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/325pd_r.jpg

Might just fit your needs.

Joe

The_Antibubba
August 24, 2005, 09:40 PM
There's a knockoff of this Webley at my local shop. It would need some parts to be shootable, if it was safe even then. Some small proof marks on the cylinder, and BRITISH BULLDOG stamped on the top. It loads like a SA, with a loading gate on the right side.

$75, cash and carry.

fisherman66
August 24, 2005, 10:17 PM
50 Shooter

I got the Son of Sam allusion.

The_Shootist
August 25, 2005, 08:12 AM
I'm one of those shallow people that also buys a gun - not only for CCW (which ALL my new purchases must confirm to) but for looks :D . I bought a Glock 19 to see what all the fuss was about and the fact that (to me) it was the LEAST ugly Glock :scrutiny: . Never regretted the purchase.

Having said that - Taurus really is the only brand right now I'd consider buying as a big bore snubbly. They just seem a bit more sleek than the grotesquely gray titanium alloy S&W 325's with their large sights (or the bulky looking 696's). Charter 2000 looks nice as well, but I've heard indifferent comments about the durability of the newer Bulldogs (and some terrible things about the older ones).

Very few CCW guns in my collection are carried alot - shot alittle. If I carry it - it gets shot alot and makes frequent range trips (except for maybe my P-32). Which means in a month (depending on what I'm carrying) my SP 101/G19/1911/Mak will get maybe 250 rds thru it - more if I'm carrying it exclusively at the time.

So would a Taurus big bore snubby hold up to extended shooting? I really - REALLY wish Ruger brought out a 2 1/2 - 3" bbl .44 spl/.45 colt snubby. I guess they have with the "Alaskan" but I suspect it was designed with fewer 2 legged self defense situations in mind and more with a serious social encounter with a 1000 lb furry assailant :eek:

Stainz
August 25, 2005, 08:35 AM
My CCW is a 21+ oz loaded S&W 296; a 2.5", 5-shot, fixed sight, Al-frame & Ti-cylinder, and hammerless L-frame. I swapped my 696's backstrap-enclosing rounded Uncle Mike's Combats in place of the admittedly smaller boots, and use Georgia Arm's 200gr Gold Dot JHP's in .44 Special now in place of the Blazer variants I did use. They were MSRP $789 years ago, but hit the closeout market several years ago for $349 or so - and still command that price. Look a used one over carefully - the cast-in-place cylinder stop is easily chiseled off by the hard-edged Ti cylinder with a few 'Hollywood'-style empties ejection, resulting in the cylinder falling into your hand. It is also ammo-restrictive. Mine shoots coincident POI/POA at 12yd with the Blazers and equivalents.

BTW, the local 'Academy Sports/Outdoors' chains, based out of Waco, TX, I think, carried the Charter Arms 2000 .44 Spcl Bull Dog a few years back - still stocks the Blazer 200gr Gold Dots at $12.86/50, a bargain.

Stainz

unspellable
August 25, 2005, 12:14 PM
I had a titanium Taurus snubby in 44 Special. It had a chamber alignment problem, I never tried firing it. Sent it on its way.

I rather liked it though, wish it hadn't had the alignment problem.

nickthecanuck
August 25, 2005, 03:37 PM
My dream piece is a S&W 696 in .45 ACP.
Is there enough room in an L-frame for 5 of .45?

Vern Humphrey
August 25, 2005, 03:41 PM
I like a big bore for CCW -- which is why I carry an M1911.

rockstar.esq
August 25, 2005, 10:00 PM
I posted a range report on my 445 Taurus. I agree with this somewhat quiet majority that big bore snubbies are the way to go. I have only turned up one Galco holster that works with the bobbed hammer. I chose the .44 special since it uses the same dies to reload as my beloved .44 magnum so making some practice ammunition is no great stretch. The chrono'd .44 special cowboy loads averaged to 745 fps which is respectable given a 200 grain bullet and a 2" ported barrel. I'm right there with some of you in that I wish Taurus could stop porting everything. I would even settle for simply larger ports that don't coat your front sight in crap after the first shot. A couple of you mentioned that the cylinder wasn't properly aligned. I had a couple of problems with my 446B and sent it in to Taurus. They completed the work free of charge and returned it to me within two months. The cylinder gap is a scant .004" I checked with my own feeler gauge! Frankly speaking, the triggers on all of my Tauri are often equal to or superior to the S&W guns that are so commonly aclaimed.
One bone to pick in general. Why is it that all the lighter weight S&W and Taurus revolvers (Scandium, Titantium, unobtainium) have absolutely gritty, nasty triggers? I fail to see why a lighter gun should suffer such an abomination of a trigger yet I find that it is to be expected.

BluesBear
August 27, 2005, 05:15 AM
I've only fired about 800 rounds through my all steel Taurus 445.
Thankfully I found one of the few unported ones.

I've have zero problems with it and it still locks up tight.
The sights are good, it shoots right where I point it.
The grips fit my hand well and recoil is mild.
Smooth trigger pull.

It's my #1 summer carry gun.

Stainz
August 27, 2005, 08:54 AM
Fortunately, I haven't seen a new Taurus .44 Special that wasn't ported, so I never bought one. I have seen two different Ti versions. Both had gritty and multi-stage-feeling triggers. One wouldn't shoot without spitting, a probable alignment problem. The owner kept it for CC. The second would heat up and drag to the point of becoming useless before a box of Blazers went through it. Cooling off, it would fire the last few rounds. The one Charter 2000 .44 Special I 'dry-fired' was no worse than the Taurus, trigger-feel-wise. I feel certain that they could be improved, the roughness probably due to burrs, etc. The Taurus's porting everything is a deal-killer for me, the poor availability of the Charter 2000 limits it's chance of becoming a part of my collection. Besides, I have a 296 and a 696 S&W...

Still, we need an affordable - and functional - .44 Special snubby.

Stainz

jondar
August 27, 2005, 10:12 AM
I have a "British Bull Dog" made by Webley and Son, Birmingham. Although it is marked .450 Webley & Scott No. 2, it will chamber and fire .455 Webley ammo. However; I ordered the issue of Man at Arms, which devotes several pages of info on the British Builldog, and found that mine is not nitro proofed and, as such, is not safe with smokeless powder. I have fired a few ,455 Webley thru it (three or four) and it isn't a pleasant experience. So in the FWIW department, if you locate one make sure it is nitro proofed.

cigardad
August 27, 2005, 04:40 PM
It would be nice if S&W would make a few more of these;

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/238/15/BugGun1.jpg

629-5 with fixed sights and 2 1/2 inch barrel. About as Bulldog as it gets.

CARRY'IN
August 27, 2005, 05:07 PM
Had a .44 bulldog in the late 80's early 90's. Never should have sold it. Does not kick as bad as you would think. Ammo was pricey though. A 45. ACP snubnose would be nice I guess. But I just like snubbies in general and dont have to have a freakin cannon. .38 works OK for me. As for some of the guns being discussed- I will not spend a fortune on a gun. Just cant bring myself to do it.

PI Rob
August 27, 2005, 06:23 PM
Big Bore snubbies are definitely the way to go! :D
The Jovino Effector:
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/2563744/5509109/106828994.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/2563744/5509109/106829000.jpg

rbmcmjr
August 28, 2005, 11:07 PM
I'll second that motion. S&W Model 29 Hunter, Weigand Hybra-porting, Magnatrigger, Meprolight tritium sights, hard chrome, DAO and bobbed hammer.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/rbmcmjr/nightstandside.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/rbmcmjr/nightstandtop.jpg

unspellable
August 29, 2005, 08:20 AM
Went to a gun show Saturday. There I saw three Turuii snubbies. One was a 38, off topic here so we'll skip that.

One was a titanium 45 Colt. Improper cylinder gap so the face of the cylinder was dragging on the end of the barrel. passed on that.

One was a titanium 41 mag. Alignment was a trifle off, probably not by enough to worry about in a pocket gun. I was tempted, but really wanted a 44 Special.

It does seem that Taurus' QA is a bit spotty.

unspellable
August 29, 2005, 08:25 AM
Went to a gun show Saturday. There I saw three Turuii snubbies. One was a 38, off topic here so we'll skip that.

One was a titanium 45 Colt. Improper cylinder gap so the face of the cylinder was dragging on the end of the barrel. passed on that.

One was a titanium 41 mag. Alignment was a trifle off, probably not by enough to worry about in a pocket gun. I was tempted, but really wanted a 44 Special.

It does seem that Taurus' QA is a bit spotty.

gunfan
September 2, 2005, 01:53 PM
If you look carefully, you'll notice that the alloy compostion of the Charter Arms Bulldog was its 'raison d'etre.' It was a light, relatively strong, 5-shot revolver, designed for close-quarter personal defense. They are best when fired with 200-grain Silvertip Hollowpoint ammunition.

That said, I own a wonderful stainless steel version of this revolver. While not an appropriate choice for shooting "Elmer Keith Memorial loads," It is, however, sutable for shooting rather stout, (200-grain GDHP bullets loaded to 1000 fps from a 6 1/2" barrel) loads. These should not be fired as a 'steady diet' from this handgun, but should be used when 'the chips are down.'

Do not blame the handgun, nor the handgun's manufacturer for the lack of proper ammunition selection.

Scott

Dr.Rob
September 2, 2005, 03:33 PM
Those old British guns just look so... British.

If you are going unsheath such artillery as a .455 you might as well wear a pith helmet and pack a Howdah old chum... never know when the odd Bengali will decide he's had enough of your folly and decide to take up lodging on the back of your personal Bar-bar eh what? That would indeed be a bit of a sticky wicket. A .577 cordite cartridge from one of our Damascus bores would indeed be a friend to one in need.

Of course the good Dr. Watson carried a .45 Webly... a RIC model if I recall with a short barrel. Dispatched the Hound of The Baskervilles... dreadful beast, mastiff I should wager... despicable beasts, bit of a drooling problem don't you know... a bit like our American cousins... uncouth.

A few decades after Holmes hung up his deerstalker, a well heeled officer in the colonies thought nothing of taking a perfectly good Colt revolver, lopping the barrel down to two inches, grinding off the front of the trigger guard and bobbing the hammer. A few examples of the "Fitz" special (named after the Mick suspiciously) remain in circulation and are favored these days by unsavory types hanging around the occult section of the local library.

Ah the heady days of Empire. Harumph.

---------------------------------------

This Fitz belonged to Charles Lindberg, and while it's a .38 you get the idea.

According to Col. Rex Applegate: "The grandest defense gun I have ever had was a Colt .45 New Service with the barrel cut down to two inches. The hammer had been dehorned ... the trigger guard was cut entirely away in the front ... the grip was shortened ... it was a whiz for the purpose intended."

He carried TWO.

Oh but why oh why... According to Fitzgerald "Perhaps some would like to ask why I cut up a good revolver and here is the answer: The trigger guard is cut away to allow more finger room and for use when gloves are worn. The hammer spur is cut away to allow drawing from the pocket or from under the coat without catching or snagging in the cloth and eliminates the use of thumb over hammer when drawing. The butt is rounded to allow the revolver to easily slide into firing position in the hand. The top of the cut-away hammer may be lightly checked to assist in cocking for a long-range shot."

HD
September 18, 2005, 01:46 PM
so asap we will obtain one as a carry gun ...

AVOID THE TAURI AT ALL COSTS ,THEY ARE CRAP!!!!

friend had the 44sp , the barrel impacted closer to the point of aim then the bullets did , yeah the barrel came out and went flying downrange ...
i only advise tauri to people i want removed from the genepool...

BluesBear
September 18, 2005, 02:22 PM
AVOID THE TAURI AT ALL COSTS ,THEY ARE CRAP!!!! No they're not. But your opinion is.

All the Tausus' in my household have proven themselves to be 100% reliable and extremely accurate during thousands of rounds fired.

HiWayMan
September 19, 2005, 06:05 PM
BluesBear +1

Never had a problem with a Taurus and about half the cost of a Smith. Hell, I've had to send my last two $1000+ guns back to Smith for repairs straight from the factory. I've never had to do that with any of my Tauri.

jondar
September 19, 2005, 09:08 PM
Here's a nice old real Webley & Scott "British Bulldog". Marked "The British Bull Dog" on the top strap. On the frame is Webley's No. 2 450 CF. It will chamber a .455 tho. Not nitro proofed so safe only with black powder loadings. Made about 1887.

Bart Noir
September 21, 2005, 02:35 PM
Jondar, is it possible that that pic is a bit distorted? It looks like the grip is longer and the overall length shorter, than I remember from the one I almost bought. I mean, the true Webleys were not THAT ugly.

Bart Noir

Cosmoline
September 21, 2005, 03:19 PM
Wow, this thread has really taken on a life of its own. Lots of cool ideas. They hybrid monster brewing in my mind would take elements from several. .44 Special or .45 Colt chambering, no longer than a 3" barrel, no porting(!), titanium or scandium frame, and a J-frame size handle for concealability.

Working Man
September 21, 2005, 03:31 PM
I have a CA BD Pug .44s, works just fine.

I have to say that Ruger Alaskan might be interesting.
A few months after they hit the market they will be
popping up used when guys with bigger eyes than hands
realize they can't handle them. :evil:

StrikeEagle
September 21, 2005, 05:47 PM
I got a CA Bulldog when they first came out. It's a lil clunky, aye... but it always works, has surprising accuracy and have never caused me any problems at all. I use loads that approximate the old LRN load, but with better bullets. 5.3 of WW231 treats me right. :)

Yes, it's a light load... a slow, large caliber, heavy slug in the tradition of 'bulldog' loads. The revolver can undoubtedly stand up to more, but unfortunately, I cannot. :p

I also have a Stainless Pug model. It serves just as well. Very decent American made revolvers that fill a special niche. Highly recommended. :)

StrikeEagle

P. Plainsman
September 21, 2005, 05:58 PM
Since this thread started, I've switched over to .44 Special for my home/car defense handgun caliber. Not in a "bulldog"; I use a S&W 629-6 with 4" half-lug barrel. Fantastic revolver. A big guy with a loose coat or shirt could CCW it, but not me.

I use the Speer 200 gr Gold Dot JHP or Cor-Bon's 165 gr hyperspeed JHP as defense ammo.

And I still want an unported Taurus 445. I'd buy Cosmoline's idealized "bulldog," too. Probably the non-Ti/Sc version.

.44 / .45 defense revolvers = cool. :cool:

jondar
September 23, 2005, 07:53 PM
Bart,

No, that's about the way it looks. the grip is handfilling to say the least. I think this may have been a RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) arm, at least that is what I bought it as. On the front of the frame just below the barrell there is a stamp "P51 which I think was a barracks number. It is obviously not the same type of stamp as the Webley stampings.

MinScout
September 23, 2005, 08:13 PM
Had a Rossi .44 Special revolver for awhile. For the price, it was an oustanding gun. Accurate, good trigger, and the best-fitting grips I've ever used on any handgun. Had to sell it, but I'm keeping my eyes open for another one.

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