Man shot himself 5 times, then jumped into the river...


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Jeff White
May 3, 2005, 04:13 AM
This one should start the ballistics wars going again. 5 self inflicted wounds with a .22 LR, 3 to the head and 2 to the chest, and he gets in his van and drives to the bridge and jumps into the river.

Granted, the article doesn't give us bullet placement, but it does reinforce the premise that there are no magic bullets. Yes, it was .22 LR, but that round has probably killed more people and larger game (in the hands of poachers) then any other.

Jeff


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/metroeast/story/81D7AF8D987DF4B186256FF600160051?OpenDocument

Man shot himself 5 times, then jumped
By Georgina Gustin
Of the Post-Dispatch
05/02/2005


A man whose body was pulled from the Mississippi River on Sunday had shot himself five times with a .22-caliber handgun before driving from his Godfrey home to the Clark Bridge in Alton and fatally throwing himself into the waters below, authorities said.

Franklin E. Carver, 67, of the 2700 block of Greenwood Lane, shot himself five times - three times in the head and twice in the chest - inside his home Wednesday, but none of the shots was immediately fatal, authorities said. Carver then got into his customized van and drove 10 minutes to the Clark Bridge, where he parked in the bicycle lane and jumped off the south side of the bridge as a frantic motorist called 911 from a cell phone.

"This is probably the most unusual suicide case I've ever seen in my career," said Lt. David Hayes of the Alton Police Department. "It's a bizarre case; it really is."

The Madison County coroner said Monday that preliminary autopsy results indicate Carver, who had several convictions, died of drowning. During the autopsy, performed Sunday, doctors pulled five small-caliber bullets that had lodged in Carver's body. The three shots to the head did not penetrate the skull, while one shot to the chest missed vital organs and the other struck the liver.
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A .22-caliber handgun that appeared to match the wounds was found in a vehicle outside Carver's home, authorities said, but ballistic tests that could confirm a match will not be ready for three weeks.

Police said they learned about the bullet wounds in Carver's body after Sunday's autopsy, but quickly ruled out homicide or the remote possibility that Carver may have been shot after he drowned.

"His son said that he had some issues in the past," Hayes said. "He was despondent and indicated there were suicidal tendencies. It's a legitimate suicide case."

However, Hayes said he could not elaborate on evidence pointing to suicide, pending a coroner jury's final determination on the cause and manner of Carver's death.

Coroner Stephen P. Nonn explained Monday that a .22-caliber gun is not especially powerful. If a bullet hits at an indirect angle or if the shot is weakened by old or compromised ammunition, it's possible that it might not do much physical damage, he said.

He pointed to a shooting 25 years ago when a Madison County man was struck seven times by an assailant with bullets from a .22 and was not killed.

"Twenty-twos are known for that," Nonn said.

Nonn also said that he had seen cases before where an initial suicide attempt failed, but a person persisted and ultimately succeeded. Several years ago a Madison County man cut his wrists, neck, arms and ankle, but when that failed, he sealed himself in a garage with a running car and died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

"Once you decide to die," Nonn said, "I guess you're going to do it."

In June, Carver, a machinist for 30 years with the Owens-Illinois machine plant in Godfrey, was charged with predatory criminal sexual assault and five counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. Prosecutors accused him of having sexual relations with a 12-year-old girl from June 2003 to June 2004.

Carver pleaded guilty in November to one count of aggravated criminal sexual abuse and was sentenced to 30 months of probation. He had been held for three months at the Madison County Jail, court records show, but was released due to health problems.

In the past 12 years, Carver also had been convicted in Jersey and Madison counties of stalking, domestic battery, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass and retail theft.

A funeral for Carver is being held at 2 p.m. Wednesday at Gent Funeral Home in Alton.

Reporter Georgina Gustin
E-mail: ggustin@post-dispatch.com
Phone: 618-659-3640

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Cool Hand Luke 22:36
May 3, 2005, 05:26 AM
Granted, the article doesn't give us bullet placement, but it does reinforce the premise that there are no magic bullets. Yes, it was .22 LR, but that round has probably killed more people and larger game (in the hands of poachers) then any other.

??

I would think it would have to be something like the mini ball from the civil war, or one of the battle rifle calibers from WWI or WWII or Korea that has killed the most people.

As far as handgun rounds, .22 LR couldn't possibly match the untold thousands killed with .38 or 9mm or .45 (ACP or LC).

Rotorflyr
May 3, 2005, 06:02 AM
Im not going to get into a caliber debate, but will say the last 4 gsw's we have flown (3 were self-inflicted) were all single shot's from .22 handguns and ALL of them were fatal.

Mongo the Mutterer
May 3, 2005, 06:24 AM
Looks like this dude could have been a sexual predator, too. Nice of him to remove himself from the gene pool.

I've heard that the 22LR is a favorite of hired killers (read Mafia). Read several articles about it, but I don't really know.

Anyone out there know anything about it?

LadySmith
May 3, 2005, 07:10 AM
In June, Carver, a machinist for 30 years with the Owens-Illinois machine plant in Godfrey, was charged with predatory criminal sexual assault and five counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. Prosecutors accused him of having sexual relations with a 12-year-old girl from June 2003 to June 2004.

Carver pleaded guilty in November to one count of aggravated criminal sexual abuse and was sentenced to 30 months of probation. He had been held for three months at the Madison County Jail, court records show, but was released due to health problems.

In the past 12 years, Carver also had been convicted in Jersey and Madison counties of stalking, domestic battery, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass and retail theft.
He could've shot himself a few more times as far as I'm concerned.

Third_Rail
May 3, 2005, 08:06 AM
Does anyone else think that he possibly "shot himself" and then "threw himself into the river"? He fell out of favor with someone dangerous, in my opinion.

280PLUS
May 3, 2005, 08:18 AM
Does anyone else think that he possibly "shot himself" and then "threw himself into the river"?

You mean like when Frank Pantagele cut his wrists in the tub because the family requested that he do so.

"You have dishonored the Family we want you to shoot yourself 5 times and jump off a bridge into the river."

"Oh thank you Godfather."

I recently read a story (supposedly true) of some guys killing another guy by "The Death of a Thousand Cuts" to appease the Gods. It goes into how they weren't too good at it and he only made it to about 300 and the Gods were not appeased. Now, when I hear or see the words "sexual predator", that story seems to pop into my head. Hmmm, I wonder why?

:mad:

He shoulda used enough gun. ;)

El Tejon
May 3, 2005, 08:19 AM
Third, a possibility. Have seen wierd things though.

Here we had a guy who "hit himself" 11 times with a hammer declared a "suicide." :uhoh:

280PLUS
May 3, 2005, 08:37 AM
Here we had a guy who "hit himself" 11 times with a hammer declared a "suicide."

What? It happens. :rolleyes:

:p

Rovi
May 3, 2005, 08:43 AM
A bit like the mythical(?) suicide with multiple stab wounds to the back?
:rolleyes:

.

Gunnutz13
May 3, 2005, 08:49 AM
all he had to do was put the .22 to the back of his ear ( behind the ear lobe )...done ! :evil:

heypete
May 3, 2005, 01:45 PM
Gunnutz13: all he had to do was put the .22 to the back of his ear ( behind the ear lobe )...done !

The bones at the temple are also quite thin. A .22 should have no problem penetrating there... :evil:

shermacman
May 3, 2005, 01:53 PM
You guys are missing the point:
Guns don't kill people, people jumping off of bridges kill people.

We need to make jumping a crime. Also, get rid of bridges and hire grief counselors to protect our river banks.

Erich
May 3, 2005, 01:58 PM
A similar tale of woe befell my Dad's Uncle Nucc' ("nooch"), an old Mob guy (no child molestor stuff! :what: ) . . . I'm not kidding. (Although he supposedly had a heart attack, hit his head, and fell into the river - no suicide was ever mentioned.) It was the East River.

Dad was happy that Uncle Nucc' died peacefully out on a walk. Given the kind of law I practice and the kind of history Uncle Nucc' had, I had a somewhat different take on the entire episode.

May they rest in peace. :)

SLCDave
May 3, 2005, 02:05 PM
Carver then got into his customized van and drove 10 minutes to the Clark Bridge, where he parked in the bicycle lane and jumped off the south side of the bridge as a frantic motorist called 911 from a cell phone.

That's horrible! Why did he have to block the bicycle lane?

The three shots to the head did not penetrate the skull, while one shot to the chest missed vital organs and the other struck the liver. Advertisement

Why did he shoot himself in the liver advertisement?

280PLUS
May 3, 2005, 02:18 PM
The three shots to the head did not penetrate the skull, while one shot to the chest missed vital organs and the other struck the liver.

He wasn't thinking trigger squeeze I'll bet...

P95Carry
May 3, 2005, 02:55 PM
The three shots to the head did not penetrate the skull That's the wierdest bit! Super Colibri's perhaps! :p

Something don't quite smell right tho!!

Dave P
May 3, 2005, 03:09 PM
"Why did he shoot himself in the liver advertisement?"

Dave, that is obviously a simple misprint. It was supposed to read " Liver Pate Appetizer ".

Get with the program, will ya?

Dave

Headless Thompson Gunner
May 3, 2005, 03:19 PM
Waste of good ammunition, if you ask me...

STW
May 3, 2005, 03:28 PM
We need to make jumping a crime. Also, get rid of bridges and hire grief counselors to protect our river banks.


A very topical comment based on last night's news. Oxford England has a yearly problem with people jumping off a bridge as part of some celebration. The fall isn't that far but the water is often only a foot or two deep. The news showed heavy police presence but no matter - many jumpers, some finished with multiple injuries. There is talk of closing the bridge

Standing Wolf
May 3, 2005, 04:20 PM
He should have done away with himself before he raped the child.

Too Many Choices!?
May 3, 2005, 04:29 PM
All I know is if there are no powder burns on this guys head, the investigation needs to be re-opened, immediately :uhoh: !! Since pistols spit out some unburned powder, a simple swab and microscope could be oh so revealing(like if this was a contact shot or from a few feet away:uhoh:!)...

I don't like to see anyone suffer ,but from the looks and sound of this case somebody either got a case of,"Vigilante Justice", or Jimminy Cricket got the best of him! Either way, sad to say, I don't feel too much of a loss over his life :( .....

El Tejon
May 3, 2005, 04:56 PM
P95, well, not that wierd. I, as many of the cops here, have seen all kinds of calibers bounce off skulls. It's round, hard and in motion. Stuff plings off.

Something to consider when you hear the infamous phrase "placement is everything" at the gun shoppe early Saturday morning. :D

DRZinn
May 3, 2005, 07:23 PM
And they still blame guns for suicide...

Hypnogator
May 3, 2005, 07:28 PM
Lessee, 5 shots + jumping off the bridge. If he'd been bound up with chain, that'd be the most thorough case of suicide I've ever heard of! :what: :D :neener: :neener: :evil:

CrazyIrishman
May 3, 2005, 07:38 PM
Maybe he "jerked" the trigger instead of "squeeeeeeezing" thus throwing his aim off!


Gee.......amother Darwin Award candidate.


It is a shame this didn't happen before he commited those atrocities!

Glock19Fan
May 3, 2005, 08:53 PM
I would bet the gun was a .22 short, not a LR. There are several .22 shorts still made including a mouse gun made by Beretta (Minx?). Either that, or he had it at such an angle that even a larger caliber would have bounced.

Most .22 ammo for decent barrel lengths would have no problem penitrating skulls, even with slightly weird angles.

Feanaro
May 3, 2005, 09:27 PM
Even .22 at "point blank" should penetrate the skull??

Not always. At some angles I believe the bullet could deflect or simply go under the skin(often doing sort of "around the head" loop). I've heard of it happening before, though I don't have any articles to site.

Malone LaVeigh
May 4, 2005, 01:11 AM
Nice of him to remove himself from the gene pool. No such luck. He was 67 and had at least one son, according to the story.

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