U.S. Navy declares ‘war’ in Southie, Boston MA


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Rockrivr1
May 5, 2005, 10:15 AM
Boston Herald Article

Boston's waterfront will look like a battle zone - with military gunfire, circling choppers and Navy SEALs on the attack - under a Pentagon war-games plan that has the support of a high-powered Southie pol but is still under review by the mayor.

``We need to do this. It's part of the training for our troops,'' U.S. Rep. Stephen F. Lynch (D-South Boston) said yesterday. ``The Navy wants to put its special ops forces through realistic situations, an approximation of what they might face in a major city, what they might face in Iraq.''

But Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday he has not signed off on the idea of having Boston look anything like downtown Baghdad.

``I don't know about any live fire, that's for sure,'' Menino said. ``We're still looking at all the details. We don't want the lives of the people of South Boston and East Boston disrupted by this.''

Some 50 elite Navy SEALs would practice sniper fire with paint balls and perform hostage extractions, water landings, sea-mine evasions and other urban combat maneuvers from June 6 to June 18 as part of the exercises to be conducted by the Naval Special Warfare Development Group.

The Navy is also hoping to land helicopters in urban areas and take advantage of the city's narrow streets to simulate combat situations in labyrinthine neighborhoods, according to Pentagon requests delivered to the city.

The Navy hopes to take over Drydock and Kennedy avenues at Black Falcon Terminal, as well as the Reserved Channel along the Boston Inner Harbor, for the ``urban military training'' games.

Lynch is urging the city to welcome the Navy, saying the military's presence will boost the city's economy and security. On Monday, he wrote to Naval Special Warfare Commander Capt. E.G. Winters, saying he supports efforts to give commandos ``techniques and training necessary to defend themselves and our nation's interests around the globe.''

Navy Special Warfare Lt. Cmdr. Andrew Levitz said the training will not ``cause any problem for local residents.'' The snipers will fire paint balls, and the area the SEALs take over will be confined to the Black Falcon neighborhood, Levitz said. He would not be specific about the exercises, citing homeland security concerns.

``We are training the SEALs in what they need to do overseas,'' he said, adding that similar simulations have been conducted in other cities around the country. ``Every city gives us a different look, and Boston is a great city.''

The city's homeland security director, Carlo Boccia, said he will meet with Navy officials in the coming days to negotiate their proposal. After inquiries from the Herald, Boccia said one thing the city will demand is that live sniper fire and explosives are not part of the Pentagon war games.

``Tentatively, we will not allow any live fire, not allow any explosions,'' he said. ``If they do conduct exercises, it will be in relationship to the port. We would like to get this done as soon as possible, but we are not going to do it unless it satisfies the city's requirements.''

Oh man, I hope the Mayor signs off on this. Seeing the SEALs invading Southie would be an awesome site. It will be interesting to see the tactics and equipment they will be using. To bad they will only be using paint ball guns though.

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TallPine
May 5, 2005, 10:25 AM
Practice for possible future actions against American citizens...? :uhoh:
(such as gun confiscations)
</tinfoil mode> :p


Do they have paint ball ammunition for their normal issue firearms? (223 & 9mm)
Doesn't seem like very good training to use a "weapon" that is not the same as what you would use in actual operations.

jefnvk
May 5, 2005, 11:14 AM
Some 50 elite Navy SEALs would practice sniper fire with paint balls

Sniper fire with paintballs?

Henry Bowman
May 5, 2005, 11:27 AM
Some 50 elite Navy SEALs would practice sniper fire with paint balls To the biased media, any aimed shot is from a "sniper." All other shooters "spray fire." :rolleyes:

striker3
May 5, 2005, 11:31 AM
Do they have paint ball ammunition for their normal issue firearms? (223 & 9mm)

There are rounds called simunitions. They are rounds with plastric bullets. The bullet is hollow and filled with a colored marker substance(not liquid). You switch out the slide on the M9, and the upper on the M4. For CQB practice, the rounds give realistic training with actual issue weapons.

skidmark
May 5, 2005, 11:33 AM
The Navy hopes to take over Drydock and Kennedy avenues at Black Falcon Terminal, as well as the Reserved Channel along the Boston Inner Harbor, for the ``urban military training'' games.

Lynch is urging the city to welcome the Navy, saying the military's presence will boost the city's economy and security. On Monday, he wrote to Naval Special Warfare Commander Capt. E.G. Winters, saying he supports efforts to give commandos ``techniques and training necessary to defend themselves and our nation's interests around the globe.''

Navy Special Warfare Lt. Cmdr. Andrew Levitz said the training will not ``cause any problem for local residents.'' The snipers will fire paint balls, and the area the SEALs take over will be confined to the Black Falcon neighborhood, Levitz said. He would not be specific about the exercises, citing homeland security concerns.


:eek: Has anybody bothered to consider how the residents of Southie might react to this exercise? :uhoh:

I'm sure other urban areas have their own bad places full of BGs, but considering how the squids at the Charlestown Navy Yard used to get pushed around by the young gentlemen from Southie, I'm not so sure paintballs will be adequate for the Seals.

stay safe.

skidmark

shermacman
May 5, 2005, 11:54 AM
But Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday he has not signed off on the idea of having Boston look anything like downtown Baghdad. ``I don't know about any live fire, that's for sure,'' Menino said.

What an idiot. Here is the mayor of a major East coast city trying to figure out if the military uses live ammo in a urban test scenario. He is dumber than a bag of hammers.

Justin
May 5, 2005, 12:08 PM
Disagree.

Hammers, at least, offer some degree of usefulness.

shermacman
May 5, 2005, 12:23 PM
True, but a bag of hammers?
I can't think of a single (legal) use...

:D

Chipperman
May 5, 2005, 01:52 PM
Mumbles Menino at his best. What a Clown.

Very little escapes from his mouth that doesn't make you shake your head.

The_Antibubba
May 5, 2005, 02:07 PM
The question nobody has asked yet is: In South Boston, won't the SEALS and the helicopters be outgunned by the residents? :evil:

Chipperman
May 5, 2005, 03:12 PM
Boston has very tough gun laws. Nobody there has guns.

The gang members thumb-wrestle to decide who wins a fight.

dasmi
May 5, 2005, 03:17 PM
Link to the original article?

Rockrivr1
May 5, 2005, 03:29 PM
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=81752&format=&page=1

mete
May 5, 2005, 04:15 PM
The Navy ?? maybe they could fix the leaks in the BIG DIG !!!!

MarkDido
May 5, 2005, 04:23 PM
Maybe they could get the Senior and Junior Senators from MA involved in the exercise?

This way they could practice a scenario in which terrorists try to attack us by dirigible, and the other one may be able to win another Purple Heart!

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

NHBB
May 5, 2005, 06:11 PM
"Practice for possible future actions against American citizens...?" - Tallpine

honestly, with the money and resources afforded to them, is it necessary to mock attack boston under the pretense that it is a necessity to train troops for close quarter combat such as the type they might experience say... in Iraq? unnecessary IMO, but whatever, its boston... like any armed resistance would come out of mass even under the most dire circumstances.

stevelyn
May 5, 2005, 06:59 PM
The Navy wants to put it's special ops forces through realistic situations, an approximation of what they might face in a major city, what they could face in Iraq.

How about this for realisim. Stop lying about the pretenses and send them to Iraq. Plenty of stuff already in place and taking place to "simulate" what they may face there. More than in Boston. :scrutiny:

I have a serious problem with the military conducting excercises in places other than the military reservations already set aside for such things. It makes me wonder if we're being innoculated in preparation of seeing armed troops in our streets or seeing them participate in more actions in what would otherwise be civil matters.

gezzer
May 5, 2005, 08:21 PM
They are realy trying to capture Whitey Bulger!!

Standing Wolf
May 5, 2005, 08:27 PM
``I don't know about any live fire, that's for sure,'' Menino said.

The man's a genius.

Jim K
May 5, 2005, 08:31 PM
Stevelyn has the right idea, but let's keep the SEALS at home and send the entire MA congressional delegation to Iraq. Maybe getting up close and personal with their terrorist heros would change some minds.

Jim

pete f
May 6, 2005, 02:54 AM
">>Maybe they could get the Senior and Junior Senators from MA involved in the exercise?<<<"

EXCUSE ME the senior Senator and exercise mentioned in the same sentence, he just had angina from you typing it, the only real exercise that man ever did was swimming away from the car. Oh wait he has done the 12 oz curl about 200 million times and he has had no trouble pulling his zipper up and down a couple of hundred more times.......


The Senior Senator of Massachusetts should do the SEALs a favor and volunteer to be a live fire target

280PLUS
May 6, 2005, 08:01 AM
Who's for a THR Get Together in Boston?

Somewhere between the 6th and 18th of June or so...

:D

shermacman
May 6, 2005, 08:30 AM
Party!

I'll get Jean Fraud Kerry to retell his "Magic Hat" story about running guns on the PT-109 to the Khmer Rouge. Maybe he can act it out during the invasion!

I'll get Teddy the K (D-Chivas) to reenact the last voyage of the Good Ship Oldsmobile off of Falcon Pier.

We have so much to be proud of with our current crop of Massachusetts politicians!

cracked butt
May 6, 2005, 08:40 AM
I have a serious problem with the military conducting excercises in places other than the military reservations already set aside for such things.

That's a nice thought, but they can't do amphibious assaults on military bases because of all of the rules that protect endangered sea turtles, sea lions, and not to mention sand pipers. :eek:

TallPine
May 6, 2005, 09:47 AM
NHBB:

If training in Boston is realistic practice for Iraq, then I imagine it is realistic enough for Billings or Boise, where there would be resistance.

TheDutchman
May 6, 2005, 02:23 PM
If training in Boston is realistic practice for Iraq, then I imagine it is realistic enough for Billings or Boise, where there would be resistance
Is some off there Meds again :banghead:

PATH
May 8, 2005, 02:05 AM
Excuse me. Isn't Boston in a foreign country called Massachusetts? Does this have to get U.N. clearance? ;)

c_yeager
May 8, 2005, 03:34 AM
I think this would be a lot of fun, i would LOVE it if they did this in Seattle just so that i could watch. On a political level i dont particularly like the conotation of the military conducting excersizes in U.S. cities, particularly without the consent of local authorites. It strikes me as a very outward example of federal dominance over all levels of government. Really though, it sounds like a hoot.

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