"Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air"


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Telperion
May 5, 2005, 12:31 PM
... and doors, and windows, and washing machines. :eek:

Idaho Cities to Pay to Fix Bullet Holes (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050505/ap_on_fe_st/flying_bullets;_ylt=ArUqQD0HuwEjNnrDOhGFuqcsQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

Wed May 4, 9:40 PM ET

After officers fired 22 shots at a fleeing man without hitting him, Boise and Garden City police departments say they'll pay nearly $7,000 to repair bullet holes in homes that were hit during the wild confrontation.

According to insurance claims filed with both departments by residents, shots fired by four officers in pursuit of 39-year-old Harlan Hale hit doors, windows, window moldings, garage doors, an all-terrain-vehicle and a clothes dryer. No one was injured in the March 9 chase.

Garden City is a town of about 11,000 residents surrounded by the city of Boise.

The shots came as police tried to apprehend Hale, who had been the target of a manhunt after he was accused of shooting at two Boise police officers during a traffic stop on Feb. 28.

He was arrested March 9 less than a mile from the neighborhood. After a short car chase, Hale drove through a back yard and over a shed before crashing his car into an irrigation canal.

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jobu07
May 5, 2005, 12:50 PM
And so the question is answered of where all those missed shots go :p

MLH
May 5, 2005, 01:06 PM
And teach those fine officers how to shoot! :uhoh:

Justin
May 5, 2005, 01:06 PM
<Neo>
Whoa.
</Neo>

1911JMB
May 5, 2005, 01:34 PM
I have a similar story. Some time ago, 2 armed robbers and one with a bb gun tried to knock over a crowded eyeglass store in a city near detroit. The guard pulled out his gun and started firing at the suspects from less than 10 feet away. The suspects immediatly gave up and hit the deck. The guard emptied 3 clinton mags at the suspects, and hit nothing but the wall and the floor. That guard was later fired.

akviper
May 5, 2005, 02:02 PM
What else is a at play here. Are the officers forced to use handguns at rifle ranges? Is it a training or equipment issue? Could one properly trained officer with an AR solve the problem with one or two shots? What is the rest of the story?

VARifleman
May 5, 2005, 02:20 PM
Good thing those officers didn't hit someone else...if someone was on the street and those shots were threatening the life of an innocent bystander, would said bystander be authorized deadly force against the officers if they continued firing? Seems reasonable to me.

ID_shooting
May 5, 2005, 02:41 PM
A week or so prior, the suspect had fired on a partol officer who pulled him and few passengers over. All the passengers were arrested that morning but they had to hunt this guy down.

mnrivrat
May 5, 2005, 02:49 PM
A week or so prior, the suspect had fired on a partol officer who pulled him and few passengers over. All the passengers were arrested that morning but they had to hunt this guy down.

Hummm ? What happened a week or so earlier does not justify shooting on that day - should be more to this story . Or are you saying that they fired out of vengance for the prior incident ?

geekWithA.45
May 5, 2005, 03:30 PM
Well, I guess paying $7k every so often is cheaper than sending the whole force to a good gun school..... :scrutiny:

Too Many Choices!?
May 5, 2005, 03:44 PM
Are you saying that officers don't pursue with more, lets say,"vigor", a suspect that has shot at or killed a fellow officer :confused: :uhoh: ? Yeah right! They wanted this guy ,and bad (as the round count should show):p !

PS It seem like a whole side of the story is missing. How many shots did the b/g let loose at the officers on THIS occassion?

HighVelocity
May 5, 2005, 03:56 PM
So the only casualty was the Snuggle dryer sheet bear. :neener:

Gunwalker.44
May 5, 2005, 04:04 PM
Just think if the├┐'d have been using wheelguns instead of "wundernines"
they would have been forced to reload..... :rolleyes:

saltydog
May 5, 2005, 04:06 PM
I'm glad there were no sheeple "accidently" shot! :eek:

Boats
May 5, 2005, 04:08 PM
Any bets on Glocks being the weapons? :evil:

mnrivrat
May 5, 2005, 04:24 PM
mnrivrat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that officers don't pursue with more, lets say,"vigor", a suspect that has shot at or killed a fellow officer ? Yeah right! They wanted this guy ,and bad (as the round count should show) !

What I'm saying is that it is doubtfull they would fire 22 shots at a suspect unless they were threaten'd on that occasion . Not because the suspect fired on an officer prior. With vigor ? yes Without immediate danger ? I doubt it. As I said, there should be more to this story.

There is implication here that they fired on "a fleeing man" because he had fired shots at an officer 9 days prior. If that's in fact true , the "vigor" of the pursuit would be illegal. I won't jump on that bandwagon without more of the story.

cls12vg30
May 5, 2005, 04:29 PM
"Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air"

Aargh! What movie is this from? It's driving me CRAZY!

Checkman
May 5, 2005, 04:30 PM
The day that they caught up to Harlan Hale he attempted to run officers over with his car before fleeing on foot.They had surrounded a house that he was hiding in and they were attempting to take him without violence. Hale was the one who escalated it. What the article leaves out is that he also fired on the officers that day and when they apprehended him he was hiding in some bushes with the intent to ambush those officers. He had made repeated statements in the past that he wanted to kill cops and he was wanted out of Twin Falls,Idaho (aproximately 130 miles east of Boise/Garden City) for armed robbery.

Incidentally Boise officers carry the Glock 21 and Garden City (which is almost entirely surrounded by Boise City) carries 40 calibers. Yes there was much more to this story.

Edmond
May 5, 2005, 04:34 PM
Maybe he just raised his hand up and stopped all the bullets just before impact? :D

VARifleman
May 5, 2005, 04:39 PM
Aargh! What movie is this from? It's driving me CRAZY!

This previous post should clue you in:

<Neo>
Whoa.
</Neo>

Tory
May 5, 2005, 04:45 PM
"What I'm saying is that it is doubtfull [sic] they would fire 22 shots at a suspect unless they were threaten'd [sic] on that occasion ."

Amadou Diallo

For those with short memories, he's the citizen gunned down by several NYC cops, most of whom could not even see him and fired because others cops opened fire, all because he held a wallet to show them ID. :eek:

pythonguy
May 5, 2005, 04:46 PM
Its from the one, the only, the first: "Matrix" movie which has what I feel is the greatest shooting scene to date in the "Lobby shootout" with Neo and Trinity. :cool:

Yanus
May 5, 2005, 04:47 PM
As the comedian, Ron White would say

"Give those guys a roll of quarters and drop'em off at the mall.......". :D

They need the practice on some of those shooting video games.

Yanus

Checkman
May 5, 2005, 04:50 PM
Once again Hale fired on the officers and he was armed when they arrested him. He also attempted to run down uniformed officers with his car. Then of course there was the fact that he had shot at an officer the week before during a traffic stop and that he was wanted for armed robbery in another city. He had a long criminal history.

pythonguy
May 5, 2005, 04:53 PM
The Diallo shooting was a terrible event which proves that even trained professionals can make a series of mistakes that lead to a tragic conclusion. This mistake lead to the death of an innocent man holding a wallet wanting to show ID, how sad. :(

HI express
May 5, 2005, 05:01 PM
Maybe he took the school of Matrix moves to avoid all those shots?

Seriously, I know a CHP officer about 8 years ago. He had just made it in the department and he was an avid gun collector.

After duty one night, he stopped in a local drive-in burger joint. After getting his order he parked his truck, intending to eat his meal in the car when a BG came up on his side of the truck and pointed a gun at the officer (not in uniform) and demanded his money.

The officer felt that he wasn't going to let this BG rob him, so he went for his off-duty weapon and opened up on the BG, who in the CHP officer's estimation was fifteen feet away. He missed all five rounds when the BG put his hands over his ears without firing a shot and surrendered.

The officer could not believe that he missed at that range. Instead of just purchasing guns now, he buys fewer of them and spends a lot more time and money at the range.

Not all LEOs are avid shooters...so... :neener:

Checkman
May 5, 2005, 05:04 PM
Never mind.

Standing Wolf
May 5, 2005, 05:22 PM
Well, I guess the leftist extremists told us so: only the police and military are qualified to have guns.

Too Many Choices!?
May 5, 2005, 05:24 PM
Don't mistake my use of the word,"vigor", to mean they would try to shoot an unarmed man that had, in the past, shot at officers :rolleyes: ! What I mean is that I would not be surprised to see a few incidental bruises on this perp when he is finally sat down in his nice little cell !! " Well Sarge, we tried to put him in the car and his head just kept hitting the door hinge, it was the strangest thing I'd ever seen" ;) :evil: !!

PS I told you there was an entire side of this story left out :neener: !

MoeMentum
May 5, 2005, 07:49 PM
Give them revolvers, and the damage would only be a few dollars next time.

gunsmith
May 5, 2005, 09:43 PM
The Diallo shooting could have been avoided by him not running when approached by plainclothes PD.
I have lived in Harlem and white police officers stick out like sore thumbs,evrybody knows who they are and he chose to run into a dimly lit hallway and instead of raising his hands he reaches into his pocket and whips out a small black object.

My brother is ex NYPD and currently works for another dep't close by
he and his buddies on the job often carry a Beratta .25acp
they saw a small black object that very well could have been the same small black gun they themselves carry. It is smaller then my wallet.
If I was a cop in that situation I would shoot too.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
May 5, 2005, 10:01 PM
I have a good friend whom I've known since elementary school. Went to a military college, then into the army, came out a Ranger officer. Left military service, became a police officer in a medium sized city in East Texas. One night he attempted to stop an armed robbery suspect who had fired at him twice with a small caliber pistol before it jammed/ran dry. My bud EMPTIED his 3rd Gen Smith selfloader (duty weapon) in the direction of the shooter, who was standing underneath a high-intensity floodlight in the parking lot of a club. The entire transaction took place at a distance of less than 20 feet. Bud wasn't hit, and the only shot he connected with was a clean wound between the radius and ulna of the shooter's left forearm. Shooter prompty ran off into the woods adjoining the club building, but the dog brought him out a few minutes later.

At the arraignment the judge remanded the shooter to custody and ordered Bud to 3 days of range time. We still rib him about it, and it's been 20 years now. He did, however, manage to hit the building the shooter was standing next to 3 times out of his full magload.

Regards,
Rabbit.

dustind
May 5, 2005, 10:24 PM
Sounds like a good shoot, except for the poor backstop.

GRB
May 6, 2005, 12:43 AM
Not only were they lucky not to shoot any innocent bystanders, they were lucky not to shoot one another.

"Give those guys a roll of quarters and drop'em off at the mall.......".
They need the practice on some of those shooting video games. Shooting practice does little to prevent the pucker factor, the out of breath factor, the adrenalin factor, but maybe would help the shooting while moving factor; that is unless it is darned good tactical training.

Mostly, in my estimation, they probably hit nothing but anything other than what they had hoped to hit because their sphincter muscles were puckered up about as much as they could be while adrenalin had them jacked up hard and fast as to have them breathing heavy and shaking. Things like that tend to hapen when you are scared poopless and chasing a guy who wants to kill you. Hard to prepare yourself for it, but not impossible, until you have been there once or twice and even then it never gets easy unless you are a psychopath or otherwise mentaly disturbed in a big way.

pete f
May 6, 2005, 03:39 AM
proper training does tend to reduce the pray and spray factor.


locally we had a situation many years ago, two cops in lobby of apt blding waiting for an elevator to go talk to a witness of a crime, Local head GBer is coming down on same elevator as cops are waiting for, Door opens, recognition takes place and both sides pull out the guns and let loose, best count I came up with (I was hired by the building to patch the holes) was 41 shots. at face to face ranges, no hits, nothing. all misses. The cops and the banger and his 'ho took to H2H in the lobby, results were mixed.
bad guy in cuffs and bleeding. 'ho all cut up and cuffed. one cop cut up. the other needing a change of clothes.

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