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Tall Man
May 6, 2005, 03:02 PM
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050502/NEWS01/505020350/1002

May 2, 2005
Project sets sights on illegal guns
By Lora Hines
lohines@clarionledger.com

Local law enforcement officials predict a new program to get illegal guns off Jackson streets could begin by the end of the year.

U.S. Attorney Dunn Lampton wants to start a gun interdiction unit through the Jackson Police Department. Officers would use vans equipped with gun-firing tanks to test weapons taken at the scene of vehicle stops and crime scenes.

Laboratory technicians would analyze cartridge casings and projectiles to determine whether those weapons had been reported stolen and used in crimes. The test results would be entered into a database linked to a national gun database.

Lampton said he started thinking about the program long before two Jackson police officers recently were shot by suspects using stolen weapons.

On March 17, Officer Thomas Catchings died following a shootout with carjacker Omar Hampton, 18. Hampton also was killed.

Jesse James Powell, 49, of Jackson is accused of selling Hampton the gun he used to kill Catchings.

Last Monday, convicted felon Marvin Stamps used a gun stolen from a Forest Hills Road home to shoot at Officer Jerry Shoulders during a two-hour standoff. Stamps, 30, shot himself in the head as he hid in a shed.

Police don't know whether Stamps stole the gun or got it after the burglary.

"These two shootings really upped the urgency of (the program)," Lampton said.

Project Safe Neighborhoods, a committee designed to target people using illegal firearms, has about $360,000 from the U.S. Department of Justice to pay for the program, Lampton said. The group, which includes law enforcement officials and residents, could decide this month to approve the idea.

Committee President Delbert Hosemann said members will favor the plan.

"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."

If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said.

Committee members have gone to the Mississippi State Penitentiary at Parchman to ask inmates how they got weapons. Many said they bought them on the streets, Lampton said.

He envisions interdiction officers developing sources throughout the city to determine where people buy illegal guns. He also is hopeful pawn shop owners and gun show salesmen would allow the unit to test weapons and enter the information into the database.

"(The unit) has to have a starting place," Lampton said. "If you don't build a database, it's useless."

He thinks criminals who steal guns or buy stolen guns will be less likely to use them because they won't know whether those guns previously have been tested and are in the database. Felons caught with guns face a maximum three-year state prison sentence. In federal court, they could face as much as 15 years if they are career criminals, Lampton said.

State law says an individual must be at least 18 to possess a handgun but must be at least 21 to buy a handgun. It requires a permit if a gun is carried anywhere other than a person's home, business or automobile.

Mississippians who are at least 21 must apply for a four-year concealed weapon permit.

Jackson Police Chief Robert Moore said his department is working to get equipment ordered and officers and lab analysts trained for the unit.

"It could make a major difference," he said.
===

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Henry Bowman
May 6, 2005, 03:21 PM
He thinks criminals who steal guns or buy stolen guns will be less likely to use them because they won't know whether those guns previously have been tested and are in the database. Who are you kidding here? [We need a "shakes head in disbelief" smiley.]

Illegal guns?a new program to get illegal guns off Jackson streets Why not leave the guns alone and get the criminals off the streets?

Vernal45
May 6, 2005, 03:23 PM
"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."


That screams POLICE STATE. Let the LEO's defend this one.

dolanp
May 6, 2005, 04:08 PM
I sure don't have a problem with the police enforcing existing laws.

armoredman
May 6, 2005, 04:13 PM
Hmm. Terry stop turns up handgun. Handgun is taked by PD under Reasonable Fear precaution. OK. All good under Supreme Court. Where do they get the authority to test fire same firearm, as that is defacto registration through the backdoor of "firearms fingerprinting", never mind how inaccurate that is? I would buy a few barrels for my carry pistol, and swap them regularly...unless that's also illegal in this Gestapo State. Good Lord Above, thank you for letting me be born in AZ!

zahc
May 6, 2005, 04:19 PM
If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said.

If that's the case, why are the police still carrying thier guns?

Or, by 'people', maybe he means 'proles'.

centac
May 6, 2005, 04:24 PM
If the weapon is lawfully possessed no probable cause will ignite, so whats the prob? If you are worried about what might happen in the way of abuse, well that's the same logic that people who want to get rid of guns use - they mightbe used for ill.

Johnnybgood
May 6, 2005, 04:44 PM
The problem is that there is no "maybe" with government. We already know that they want all the power and us disarmed.

Aggie1
May 6, 2005, 04:48 PM
"It could make a major difference," he said.

Or it could be a major waste of tax dollars. Which do you think is more likely? :banghead:

SMMAssociates
May 6, 2005, 06:02 PM
If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said. And this guy's in a position of trust? :fire: Forty states, give or take, and nearly that many years now, with various forms of concealed carry, have pretty well shown precisely the opposite. :banghead:

May the fleas of 10,000 camels nest in his underware drawer.... :neener:

jefnvk
May 6, 2005, 06:06 PM
If the weapon is lawfully possessed no probable cause will ignite, so whats the prob?

So, then why don't they just arrest the person for illegal gun possession, send them away for many years to a federal prison, and there won't be a problem.

P95Carry
May 6, 2005, 06:41 PM
If fewer CRIMINALpeople carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said. Now - with that small but vital addition - I doubt there would be any controversy!!!

beerslurpy
May 6, 2005, 08:14 PM
I think by "illegal guns" they mean "guns carried by people who are known for doing illegal things and have felony convictions to that effect"

Actually a Terry Stop specifically involves searching the immediate area if the officer beleives he may be at risk. If someone has a violent felony record, that could be construed as probably cause to perhaps frisk them for weapons. If any are discovered, oh noes!

Standing Wolf
May 6, 2005, 08:35 PM
Why not leave the guns alone and get the criminals off the streets?

Oh, fine! Go ahead and be reasonable! See if anybody in government cares!

Vernal45
May 6, 2005, 09:02 PM
"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."

The statement above is not targeting criminals, its targeting guns.



U.S. Attorney Dunn Lampton wants to start a gun interdiction unit through the Jackson Police Department. Officers would use vans equipped with gun-firing tanks to test weapons taken at the scene of vehicle stops and crime scenes.

Vehicle Stops. Hmmm, sounds a lot like Traffic Stops to me.

Coronach
May 6, 2005, 10:44 PM
They are talking about guns seized incident to lawful arrests, or guns discovered via lawful searches of motor vehicles that are being transported illegally (read: owner did not have a CCW permit, and/or was under disability and unable to own the gun). IOW, the weapons would be taken anyway, and the owners arrested for felonies.

OK. If that's the case...why does this lab need to be mobile? What am I missing here? How is this any different from turning the guns in at the property room and having them sent to the lab and tested? I cannot decide if this is just a dumb idea, or if the journalists and/or PR people left a bunch of stuff out, or both.

As is, this seems like a great big rolling boondoggle to me. I agree that this will do nothing. What would be far more efficient would be to have the criminals locked up when they are caught. One must realize, however, that this is not something the police can control. Ask any line officer which he would prefer, an actual honest-to-God 10-year sentence for a thug (as in, he actually spends 3,650 days with his arse in a cell), or a brand new state of the art rolling crime lab to test captured guns, and he'll opt for the jail time. The problem is that the prosecutors cut deals, the judges grant probation, the politicians won't fund the jails...and the police are left to try creative means to actually put/keep the people they catch in jail. This sounds like one of those "bright ideas", and I don't think its gonna do anything but burn money.

Mike

R.H. Lee
May 6, 2005, 11:01 PM
Laboratory technicians would analyze cartridge casings and projectiles to determine whether those weapons had been reported stolen and used in crimes. Yeah. In your dreams.

XLMiguel
May 6, 2005, 11:24 PM
Stupid beyond words. There is no rational cost/benefit analysis that could make sense without a lot of scotch or crack consumed in the process. :banghead:

Vernal45
May 7, 2005, 01:26 AM
U.S. Attorney Dunn Lampton wants to start a gun interdiction unit through the Jackson Police Department. Officers would use vans equipped with gun-firing tanks to test weapons taken at the scene of vehicle stops and crime scenes.


Where in the article does it say weapons seized in lawful arrests?

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
May 7, 2005, 06:40 AM
If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said.

Standing the truth on it's head.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
May 7, 2005, 06:45 AM
I would buy a few barrels for my carry pistol, and swap them regularly...unless that's also illegal in this Gestapo State.

Make sure it's not a Makarov. The Feds were still rousting anyone who's bought a new barrel for one looking for the murderer of a Federal prosecutor last I heard.

benEzra
May 7, 2005, 10:07 AM
"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."

If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said.

They seem to be speaking of everyone here, not just criminals.

U.S. Attorney Dunn Lampton wants to start a gun interdiction unit through the Jackson Police Department. Officers would use vans equipped with gun-firing tanks to test weapons taken at the scene of vehicle stops and crime scenes.
Does this mean that if you as a law-abiding citizen are stopped and have a gun legally in the car, and they find out about it, they are going to have you wait while they do ballistic testing on it at the site of the stop? The ONLY reason I can think of for a mobile lab would be to build a database of guns that they are NOT going to bring back to the station.

Old Fuff
May 7, 2005, 11:16 AM
I also wonder why an expensive "mobile lab" is necessary for "on-site" testing. Perhaps this is the answer:

"He also is hopeful pawn shop owners and gun show salesmen would allow the unit to test weapons and enter the information into the database."

It would also seem that the word "people" is used interchangeably with "criminal."

I think the point of this program is to test any and every firearm the police may come across and enter the information - regardless of how inaccurate it may be - into a database. What we have here is "mobile bullet fingerprinting," and as a crime-fighting tool it is likely to be an expensive bust. If they have grounds to confiscate a firearm it can be tested in the usual manner.

gc70
May 7, 2005, 01:21 PM
Mississippians who are at least 21 must apply for a four-year concealed weapon permit.Mandatory CCW :D

Desertdog
May 7, 2005, 02:12 PM
"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."
Is he talking about the honest citizen who is afraid the cops will confiscate their legal firearms?

Less armed honest citizens means more gun crime as demonstrated by Washington DC, New York City and New Jersey.

Hypnogator
May 7, 2005, 03:03 PM
The statement above is not targeting criminals, its targeting guns.

No, it appear to be targeting CW permit holders who lawfully carry guns.

I'm all for confiscating and doing ballistics check on guns taken from felons, but this is just wrong on so many levels..... :fire: :fire: :fire:

DRZinn
May 7, 2005, 03:15 PM
It would also seem that the word "people" is used interchangeably with "criminal."Actually, it's the term "gun owner" that is being made interchangeable with "criminal." You think that's an accident?

Jeff OTMG
May 7, 2005, 03:46 PM
I don't have a problem with it IF:
1. The govt uses their own ammo
2. Don't even think about returning my gun to me if you haven't cleaned it after shooting.

Number one will give me an excuse to carry a Webley-Fosbury or Broomhandle Mauser. If the cops use your ammo it is a violation of the Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be ....deprived of ... property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Number two will give me an excuse to stand there and supervise the cleaning. "No officer, I still see a little residue on that patch. Try another few passes with the brush and then another patch." I can't see cops cleaning guns for 15-20 minutes on every traffic stop, it would take up too much time.

Nightfall
May 8, 2005, 01:57 PM
"One of our main goals is to get people to leave their handguns behind," he said. "Those individuals would leave their guns at home in fear they would be obtained in a legal search of their automobile."

If fewer people carry guns, fewer violent crimes will happen, Hosemann said.Sounds like an attempt at intimidating gun owners.
He also is hopeful pawn shop owners and gun show salesmen would allow the unit to test weapons and enter the information into the database.

The test results would be entered into a database linked to a national gun database.Sounds like an attempt at an off-the-books gun registration scheme.

Overall, sounds like an attempt at a police state.

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