[Fatelvis]

Ive heard of people loading a couple rounds at a time in the Garand without a clip. Can anyone tell me/show me with pics how this is done? Thanks a million-

[Infidel]

For single rounds, there is a SLED (Single Load <mumble> Device), which is more or less a single-round clip that stays in the clip well after firing. There are two-round clips and five-round clips, which behave just like the regular 8-round clips. They are available from places like SARCO, Northridge, Fulton Armory, and places where NRA Highpower is spoken. Firing the M1 without a clip is a no-no.

[dfariswheel]

It's not possible to load cartridges into the M1's magazine unless there's a clip to stabilize and position the rounds.

Even if you loaded rounds into the magazine, and closed the bolt, as soon as the bolt opened, all the rounds would be forced out of the magazine by the follower.

[AZ Jeff]

As others have pointed out, there is a specially modified one-round clip that can be used to fire single rounds out of an M1. This gadget is commonly called a "single load enhancement device", aka 'SLED'.

It IS possible to fire SINGLE shots out of an M1 without the SLED, but it's not a recommended practice. The SLED slows down the bolt's forward velocity during the feeding/chambering cycle, and thus lessens the possibility of a slamfire. (The force to strip the cartridge out of the SLED slows the bolt.)

I have shot my M1 without the SLED on rare occassions, but I take precautions to prevent a slamfire as follows: place round into chamber by hand, and seat with thumb. Release bolt and ease operating rod forward approx. 1/2 way. Then let bolt fly forward under spring force the remaining distance. Insure bolt has gone to battery before firing.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to fire more than one round from an M1 without a clip in place, for the reasons cited by others already.

[cracked butt]

If you install a Holbrook device, you still will have a clip in place, but its very easy to thumb a couple of rounds into the inserted clip without smashing your thumb.


I do the same thing as AZ Jeff does for single loading without a sled. Have the edge of my hand ride the oprod down slowly until its 1/2 closed, rotate my hand out of the way, then bump the bacl of the oprod with the heel of my hand to ensure its locked all of the way.

[Houndawg]

The SLED doesn't slow down the bolt subtantially at all. There's not enough friction to slow the bolt down enough to prevent a slam fire. The SLED just makes it easier to control the loading by allowing you to load a single round and releasing the bolt by pulling it back. Putting a round in the chamber then releasing the bolt in the normal Garand fashion was always the accepted and approved method of single round loading.

[BamBam-31]

Reminds me of the BoB episode where Dick Winters has one of his PO-ed soldiers (Luz?) escort captured prisoners away. He takes all the guy's ammo, including what's in his M1, and loads only one round in his rifle manually. That way, if the PO-ed soldier shoots one POW, the others will mob him and get away.

[Fatelvis]

Thanks for the input guys. I was aware of the SLED and 2 round clips, but I thought there was a trick for loading without anything in the receiver. I guess I was w r o n g .... there, I said it. :)

[Texian Pistolero]

I'm confused, dudes.

Basically, I don't know what you are talking about!

So , basically, I hope that you don't hold it against me if I just,

you know, key the mike,

and call in the air strike?

[cracked butt]

Reminds me of the BoB episode where Dick Winters has one of his PO-ed soldiers (Luz?) escort captured prisoners away. He takes all the guy's ammo, including what's in his M1, and loads only one round in his rifle manually. That way, if the PO-ed soldier shoots one POW, the others will mob him and get away.

As stupid as it sounds, I wouldn't have known how to unload a M1 if I didn't see that episode.

[MechAg94]

I think I was messing around one time. "What's this do?" -- boing....out pops the clip. It almost hit me in the face. Gave my Dad a good laugh. :)

[Jim K]

I am puzzled by the answers. It is easy to single load an M1. You simply place a round in the chamber, then hold the op rod with the back of the hand while pressing the follower down with the thumb. When the op rod unlocks, you remove the thumb and hand (in that order), the op rod goes forward, carrying the bolt with it, and the bolt closes on the round. Pull the trigger. The gun fires and the op rod locks back. Repeat.

Jim

[Houndawg]

Jim,

That's how it's done. The SLED is only to make it less cumbersome for competitors during slow fire.

[SASS#23149]

but I don't see why single loading one would be more prone to slam-firing using single-load techniques than just inserting the clip and dropping the bolt as usual.
has someone had a slamfire doing it??
just curious,and waning to expand my knowledge base.

[dfariswheel]

The reason there's a bigger chance of a slam-fire when loading a single round is, there is no resistance when the bolt closes, and the bolt slams shut with much more force.

When loading with a clip, the tightness of the clip adds a good bit of resistance to the bolt when it strips the first round out of it.
This slows the bolt down considerably.

When single loading, there is no resistance and the bolt slams shut with such force, it can fire the weapon, especially if the ammo has high primers.

As above, it's simple and safe to single load the M1 by simply dropping a round in the chamber and easing the bolt about half way closed before letting it go.

This is how military and Match shooters have been doing it for over 60 years.

[Jeff White]

I fired every round that was issued in the old 47th ID Sniper School in 1988 single loading in an M1D just as Jim Keenan described. For some reason they could get plenty of .30 match ammo, but not in clips.

Jeff

[hps1]

I fired every round that was issued in the old 47th ID Sniper School in 1988 single loading in an M1D just as Jim Keenan described. For some reason they could get plenty of .30 match ammo, but not in clips.

The variants of the GI single loading method described by Jim Keenan (and taught in the dark ages :evil:) have evolved in more recent years due to the many competitors (and casual shooters) who reload their own ammo using various brands of civilian primers. Many of these primers use a softer metal cup than those used by military ammo mfgrs. and, as has been pointed out, are sometimes not fully seated. Either of these conditions can contribute to slam fires that we were not exposed to using GI ammo. I can't remember ever hearing of a slam fire in the service (late dark age circa 1950/60's ;) ), not that it never happened. CCI makes a special #34 primer for service rifles using a harder metal cup to resist the floating firing pin causing slam-fire.

Most match ammo was issued in 20 round cardboard boxes, as Jeff said. Only saw one lot packed in the 8 round clips.

Regards,
hps

[iamkris]

I'm confused, dudes.
Basically, I don't know what you are talking about!
So , basically, I hope that you don't hold it against me if I just,
you know, key the mike,
and call in the air strike?


Another great example of why you shouldn't drink and post. ;)

[Preacherman]

Folks, please watch your language. Euphemisms for nasty words are as bad as the words themselves.

[thorn726]

of all stupid things- thanks guys, you have just explained to me why sometimes on my video game the reload is a whole clip, and others (seems ot be server controlled) , when the M1 or german equiv is empty, sometimes dude is slapping one in at a time.

i had already learned about the "clip" form you guys, explaining the top loading, but the single loading i didnt get, now i do, thanks!!

i dream of the M1 someday.

[Freedomv]

I am curious as to information or statistics on the number of actual slam fires accuring with an M-1 Garand.

The reciever bridge is supposed to hold the firing pin back as the bolt closes and after it rotates it is allowed to go forward by the cut in the bridge to contact the primer.

I know of one garand that had a flaw in the bridge (casting flaw) that slammed fire twice before the owner wisely decided to have it looked at. (springfield replaced it)

I also saw a rewelded reciever that was too short and allowed the fireing pin to contact the primer before it rotated. But I never personally knew of a genuine GI reciever to have this problem.

I know that anything mechanical is subject to failure and I would like to know more about this as I am guilty of loading one round at a time and just letting the bolt fly home. This is the first I had heard of needing to be extra carefull, Maybe my Guardian angle was extra busy watching over me.

Vern

[Sunray]

"...the M1's magazine..." Um, the Garand doesn't have a magazine.
"...my video game..." That doesn't count. Your CMP is the place to go for a guy with limited funds. $400 will buy you a safe to shoot rifle. Shoot the matches even if you don't have to. Great fun and you'll meet lots of great people. http://www.odcmp.com/
"...a slam fire in the service..." Slam fires are caused by defective ammo or defective rifles. I've been loading for my Garand for 30 some years with no fuss or bother.
"...guilty of loading one round at a time and just letting the bolt fly home..." That's not inherently evil. Just a bit hard on the extractor. Original Garands are incredibly tough and well made rifles. You really have to work hard to break one. No USGI M-1 has ever blown the receiver. J. C. did tests using up to 120,000 psi proof rounds. The result was a cracked left bolt lug. Didn't bother the rifle a bit. They went on, with the same rifle, to shoot 5,000 service rounds with no further damage. The worst that can happen is blowing out the bottom of the receiver. Buggers the rifle to no end, but the action is solid and the shooter doesn't get hurt.

[cracked butt]

Its good to hear from people who have been shooting the M1 for a long time and who know what they are talking about. :cool: +
Most of what I've learned about my rifle has been from reading and shooting it myself, not interacting with others. I've only ever seen one shooter use a sled with an M1 and I've heard dire warnings about slamfires from day 1. I've read some of the advice written by a certain aftermarket seller of M1 and M14 rifles that basicly said only an idiot with a deathwish would handload for a semiauto rifle. I've just always played it safe, set the shoulders back on reloaded brass just enough so that it would chamber reliably, made sure the primers were always set below flush, and eased the bolt shut when single loading.

[hps1]

Vern:
As you stated, the bridge in the M1 receiver should prevent firing pin from striking primer until bolt is in battery. If you examine a primer on a live round that you have chambered in any Garand, whether single loaded or fed through a clip, you will notice it has a light firing pin strike mark on it where the firing pin "pecked" the primer as the bolt slammed home.

While I never heard of a slam fire in the service, with the exception of one caused by a broken firing pin, I suspect that it did occur on occasion. GI ammo is loaded with primers which are consturcted of slightly harder metal than most civilain primers and are all seated and crimped flush with, or slightly below the case head. As previously stated, CCI does make a special hard primer for use in service rifle ammo by handloaders.

Anything that causes the primer (or cartridge case) to stop short can cause a slam fire in an M1 or M14 as the floating firing pin can strike the primer with enough force to cause detonation. If the rifle is not in battery when the slam fire occurs, the results can be devastating.

A dirty chamber, high primer, soft primer, incorrect headspace caused by a case not sufficiently resized, etc. , all can contribute to a slam fire.

Had a friend, an experienced handloader and high power competitive shooter, who wrecked a match grade 7.62 M1 at a state match. We finally figured out the cause. He was using a batch of cases which had been reloaded a number of times. His sizing die had been set to give proper headspace using new, or once fired (softer) brass. The older cases were work hardened and expanded upon extraction from sizing die to a larger than correct dimension, resulting in insufficient headspace. That, coupled with the fact he was using one of the softer primers, caused the rifle to fire out of battery during a rapid fire string.

The resulting slam fire blew the extractor, ejector and firing pin out of the bolt, bent the op rod, rounded the bolt lug notch in the receiver, and put a small piece of metal thru the sweat band on his cap, causing a 1/2" cut on his forehead. He was fortunate that the bolt had begun to lock which reduced the damage and the rifle could be rebuilt. His trigger control took a bit longer to restore, however. :what:

Using proper components and care, handloaded ammo is perfectly safe in the gas guns, but watch your headspace and check each loaded round for high primers.

Regards,
hps

[cracked butt]

The older cases were work hardened and expanded upon extraction from sizing die to a larger than correct dimension, resulting in insufficient headspace. That, coupled with the fact he was using one of the softer primers, caused the rifle to fire out of battery during a rapid fire string.

I've seen that happen too with 30-06 cases. I would set my dies to set back a certain batch of brass, and the headspace on them would be fairly consistant, but if I put a piece of brass from a different manufacturer or one that had been fired a few more times, sometimes the brass would spring back after sizing and would headspace quite a bit longer than the rest of the brass.

[Freedomv]

I never knowingly reloaded a case more than once for match shooting. Maybe that is why I never had a problem.

I learned early on in the match shooting game that I wanted the best performance from my equipment. I had seen shooters loose points because of split or seprated cases etc. and figured that there was an easy solution to this problem,,,,, don't reload more than once....... Sell your twice fired brass to your competetor and let him deal with alibis and lost points etc. while giving yourself an edge over him.

I know ----- sneaky,,, cruel,,, heartless,,,,,, But it isn't cheating. And I never liked to reload anyway.

Now I see that it may have saved myself some real grief.

Vern

[hps1]

But it isn't cheating. And I never liked to reload anyway.

:) :) I'm with you, Vern. Can't claim to be one of those fellows who loves to reload, however, if proper care is taken, you would be surprised at the number of times you can safely reload cases, even for the gas guns. Garands are rather hard on brass as compared to bolt guns, leaving scars from the extractor and other dents and dings.

Since I shot every DCM match I could, I had plenty of good GI brass which had been fired in my rifle, so brass availability was not an issue. In order to assure case uniformity, I ream flash hole, uniform primer pockets, & turn necks, so had quite a bit of time invested in each case. In order to get the most from the time invested, I felt the need to get several firings from each case. While I never kept records as to the number of times a lot of brass had been fired, suspect some were reloaded 6-8 times for the garand, and many more times for my bolt guns.

Start by uniforming a batch of once fired brass, then set the sizing die, using a micrometer case gauge, to give at least .003" headspace in your rifle (for bolt guns, I usually set die to give only .001 headspace, not being concerned about the possibility of a slam fire). The less you work your brass, the longer it will last. Always keep brass in lots so that each case has been fired the same number of times to avoid the possibility of hardened brass causing a headspace problem, as well as being beneficial to accuracy.

Make it a habit to run your finger over the primer as each loaded round is removed from the press; it is easy to feel any primer not fully seated. If you want to be absolutely safe, you can then check each round with the micrometer case gauge to assure sufficient headspace, but at the very least you should spot check every few rounds as a safety precaution if ammo is to be fired in a gas gun. When the necks start to show signs of carbon, indicating the neck is beginning to work harden, that lot of brass is sent to the scrap pile.

Was issued my first M1 in 1952 and have been enjoying them ever since. Wish I had a penny for every single round I have dropped into the chamber of an M1 and let the bolt slam shut with GI issued ammo and handloads. Never had a problem, but have witnessed others not so lucky. As has been stated, slam-fires can usually be traced to faulty ammo or defective rifle. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to ease the bolt down if you choose to do so but it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, so I'll probably continue to slam the bolt. (But only on GI ammo or carefully prepared handloads. :)

Regards,
hps

[Gewehr98]

When the necks start to show signs of carbon, indicating the neck is beginning to work harden, that lot of brass is sent to the scrap pile.

That's when I get the pie pan out, with the propane torch, and anneal my brass. :D

I do the single-round load technique where I slowly bring the bolt halfway to battery before I let it close by itself. I've seen too many dimpled primers otherwise, both in my Garand and others at the range when they don't use the above technique.

Slamfires ain't fun. They're nasty enough to cause Springfield, Inc. to warn against use of handloads in their M1 Garand and M1A rifles.

I had one slamfire, but it was a Remington Model 8, where I made the mistake of hand-chambering the round and then letting the bolt fly home from it's locked position. :what: Never again.

[varoadking]

"...the M1's magazine..." Um, the Garand doesn't have a magazine.

It most certainly does, Sunray...

Where do you think you've been loading the clip for the past 30 years?

[hps1]

That's when I get the pie pan out, with the propane torch, and anneal my brass.

Yup, been there, done that, but I was never satisfied that I could control the amount of heat applied to each individual piece of brass well enough to assure case to case uniformity, and, since I had no shortage of brass, felt better discarding those cases showing signs of hardening.

By the way, my friend who blew up his match M1 used to anneal his cases, apparently he missed a few or did not anneal soon enough. Not sure, but I don't think the lot of brass that caused the problem had been annealed.

As you pointed out, slam fires are not unique to the M1. Any self loading rifle which has a floating firing pin can produce a slam fire under proper (or should I say improper) conditions.

IMO, one can greatly reduce the chance of a slamfire by following good reloading techniques and use of a hard primer such as the CCI #34. Before this primer came out, range scuttlebutt had it that Fed. primers were a bit soft for use in gas guns and the WW or CCI had harder cups. I have used all of the above and had no problems FWIW, but now use only the CCI 34 in gas gun.

Regards,
hps

[Infidel]

"...the M1's magazine..." Um, the Garand doesn't have a magazine.


It most certainly does, Sunray...

Where do you think you've been loading the clip for the past 30 years?
I've mostly heard it called the "clip well".

[hps1]

"...the M1's magazine..." Um, the Garand doesn't have a magazine.

It most certainly does, where do you think you have been loading the clip for 30 years?...

I've mostly heard it called the "clip well".

The above discussion got me to thinking (an activity I usually avoid to the best of my ability :) ) For the life of me, I couldn't remember the name applied to that part of the M1 into which the clip is inserted. Dug out the field manual on the garand (FM 23-5--1965) and it describes loading a full clip "straight down into the receiver until it latches."

The Book of the Garand, by Gen. Julian Hatcher uses nearly identical language but on page 189 the tag line under top picture reads, "Parts in position occupied when rifle is not in Use. Magazine empty, bolt closed, hammer down." Webster's New World Dictionary defines a magazine as "a space in or a container on a rifle or pistol from which cartridges are fed".

As for the original discussion of proper method to single load the M1,
Gen. Hatcher's description of single loading the M1 on pg. 195 is basically what was taught in classes on the M1 in the 50's & 60's:

"The receiver being empty, pull op-rod to rear until it is caught by op-rod catch. W/right hand, place one round in chamber, seating it in place w/thumb. W/palm of right hand against the receiver, the rear edge of the hand aginst the op-rod handle, fingers extended, joined and pointing downward, force the op-rod handle to the rear; depress the follower with the right thumb; and permit the bolt to ride forward about one inch over the follower. Then remove the thumb from the follower **and release the op-rod handle. The op-rod must be allowed to go forward by the force of its expanding spring. It must not be retarded in its forward movement by contact with the hand. If the op-rod is not promptly released the bolt may not lock..........."

**I would add that it is a good idea to point the thumb forward at this stage. Reason being, the bolt will push the thumb out of the way as it slams forward preventing an "M1 thumb". Have seen quite a few mashed thumbs caused because thumb was pointed downward when bolt released.

Those interested in the garand will find the following link interesting:

http://www.dav32.com/feeding.html

Regards,
hps

[30Cal]

Slamfire is possible, but a very infrequent occurance. Still, it's worth taking steps to minimize the likelihood, especially when using handloads or single loading. I would use a sled or at least ease the bolt halfway before letting it fly.

The en bloc clip is placed in the magazine.

Ty