U.S has to pay hospitals for illegals.


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bg
May 10, 2005, 02:41 AM
God this just so fires me up ! Paying for the illegals' wounds..
Why isn't this Admin tackling this illegal infestation and
in turn denying ANY medical or monies to these law
breakers. I understand hospitals having to get income
to stay in operation, but DENY any care or benefits
to these law breaking invaders !
[Sorry for the bad language, but this hits a sore spot] >
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTEwdnZjMjFhBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaW5kZXgtY3Nz/s/239557

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RevDisk
May 10, 2005, 03:33 AM
Doctors as a rule are not supposed to give a damn of the skin color, nationality, religion, taste in music, hair color or anything else when it comes to their patients. Doctors are supposed to treat people in need of medical assistence. They treat criminals and citizens, regardless.

Advocating that doctors break their oath is a very bad idea. What possible good can become of it?


That said, once the criminals are stabilized, send 'em back.

Sindawe
May 10, 2005, 04:37 AM
Urgent, "treat'em now or they die" type of care? No problem in my eyes, basic human decency.

Long term, chronic "multi organ transplants" care? Nope.

+1 RevDisk's comments.

Art Eatman
May 10, 2005, 10:27 AM
Somewhwere in the vicinity of fifteen years ago, Congress passed a body of law with a couple of requirements that have had strong impact on all hospitals.

One is that nobody can be turned away from an emergency room because of inability to pay. Thus those with no health insurance use ERs in lieu of regular doctors' offices. If they can't pay cash, all the hospital can do is attempt civil-court efforts. The obvious catch is that it's a waste of time to sue for money if the person has no money. You can't cash a judgement.

The other part of this body of law is that the Medicare payment to small rural hospitals is less than what's paid to a large, urban hospital, for any given procedure.

The result was that many small-town hospitals went bankrupt. Alpine, Texas; Appalachicola and Blountstown, Florida, to my own knowledge.

So, yeah, illegals are a cost problem, but they're only part of it--not the "whole enchilada", as it were.

"Congress, in its infinite wisdom..."

Art

Old Fuff
May 10, 2005, 11:03 AM
Art is right. Prior to this new arrangement the Border Patrol could catch an injured or sick illegal and take them to our local hospital for treatment. If that person was under arrest and in formal U.S. custody Uncle Sam would pick up the bill. On the other hand if they simply picked them up and took them to the hospital, it (and by extension, the county taxpayers) would have to pay for the costs. This was hardly fair, and under the new law EVERYONE in all 50 states will pay a share - like it or not.

In addition, it is not uncommon for a pregnant woman to illegally cross the border for the sole purpose of having her child here so it will be an American citizen. Now the rest of you can pay for part of that too.

While it is nice to remind us of the concept that doctors should provide service for everyone regardless of circumstances, the hard fact is that this service costs money. If the hospitals end up going broke then no one will have local service - at least along the U.S./Mexican border.

dolanp
May 10, 2005, 11:05 AM
I suggest we designate a few states where they can live in happiness and safety and not be bothered by the terrible racist bigots and rednecks. These states shall be: California, New York, and New Jersey.

:D

DRZinn
May 10, 2005, 11:19 AM
Just give me time to get out first!

jefnvk
May 10, 2005, 11:41 AM
In addition, it is not uncommon for a pregnant woman to illegally cross the border for the sole purpose of having her child here so it will be an American citizen.

I know of an Irishman that had that done to him. But of course, they wern't expecting the American taxpayers to pick up their tab.

Sawdust
May 10, 2005, 11:45 AM
OK, so the federal government has now promised to pay for some (note that the amount allocated will come no where near full reimbursement of the estimated costs of illegal alien health care) of the health care costs of illegal aliens.

So, how are hospitals going to identify which indigent patients are illegal aliens, and which ones are merely poor legal citizens? When previously proposed that hospital personnel be required to make this determination, there was a huge uproar from the leftists...

Sawdust

Lone_Gunman
May 10, 2005, 12:13 PM
Remember, President Bush prefers us to use the term "Undocumented Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Alien".

Kramer Krazy
May 10, 2005, 12:40 PM
I sure would love it if someone else would start paying MY medical bills. I've got a couple grand I have to shell out this year......awe well.... :(

It's really a shame when a person is penalized for trying to do things the "right" and "responsible" way, and everyone else gets rewarded for being stupid, ignorant, and blissfully irresponsible. :rolleyes:

I like to tell people that we live in a country that is full of "Social Service Terrorists". :banghead:

Reno
May 10, 2005, 12:43 PM
Remember, President Bush prefers us to use the term "Undocumented Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Alien".
And I prefer the term "Foreign Invader" to either of those.

spartacus2002
May 10, 2005, 01:11 PM
And if we don't like it, I guess that makes us "Vigilantes" in the eyes of the current administration.

You can only push people so far before they push back. I am not advocating for this, just making an observation: I give it 24 months before packs of good ol'boys decide to try out those deer rifles on the border and stop the problem there.

dasmi
May 10, 2005, 01:13 PM
The other part of this body of law is that the Medicare payment to small rural hospitals is less than what's paid to a large, urban hospital, for any given procedure.

+1
I work in a small, rural medical facility.

Standing Wolf
May 10, 2005, 07:55 PM
Remember, President Bush prefers us to use the term "Undocumented Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Alien".

That's one of the main reasons he didn't get my vote last November.

bountyhunter
May 10, 2005, 08:12 PM
Why isn't this Admin tackling this illegal infestation and
in turn denying ANY medical or monies to these law
breakers. Gee, let me see if I can relate..... I live in a bankrupt state (50 BILLION in debt) where probably at least five million people are here illegally with phoney SS cards and their whole families are on Medi-Cal.

And in 2000, Bush instituted the famous "ABC" (Anyplace But california) Policy and has been stiffing us on the fed's fair share of the tab....

What was the question again....?

Oh, yeah... why isn't Bush tackling the illegal immigration problem?


Becase all of the people in big business who got him elected want those illegals here for slave labor.... and the massive $$$ cost that falls on the states is not his problem.....

bountyhunter
May 10, 2005, 08:16 PM
When previously proposed that hospital personnel be required to make this determination, there was a huge uproar from the leftists... Au contrare, the "leftists" in kali overwhelmingly voted in a ballot initiative to require hospitals and schools to see valid documentation before treating... the courts threw the law out.

bountyhunter
May 10, 2005, 08:18 PM
Advocating that doctors break their oath is a very bad idea. What possible good can become of it? Doctors would not be asked to break an oath. Emergency care would be available to all, but regular care would require documentation be presented at admission... or hit the road. The doctor would not be involved in any decision made.

Lone_Gunman
May 10, 2005, 09:10 PM
What is emergency care, and what is not?

Would appendicitis be emergency care? Sure.

What about a tumor that will kill the patient in 3 months? Is that an emergency?

Waitone
May 10, 2005, 09:21 PM
The Wizards of Washington created the problem by imposing an unfunded mandate on the states. An indigent patient shows up at the ER and he must be treated. State: you figure out how to pay for it. In the case of criminal aliens congress is doing what it should have done to begin with. Pay for its freakin' edicts. I'm glad to see it because it spotlights a major problem.

Side observation. If we had state selection of senators this problem would never see the light of day.

pyrguy
May 10, 2005, 09:31 PM
I sure would love it if someone else would start paying MY medical bills. I've got a couple grand I have to shell out this year......awe well....

The wife has a couple of cronic things that require regular meds. WITH our insurance coverage it costs us about 6grand out of pocket last year. Now there are telling us that our premiums are going up and coverage is going down. :cuss: :cuss: :banghead:

Old Fuff
May 10, 2005, 09:55 PM
But of course ...

You are expected to help pay for all of those that don't pay at all.

Isn't that what Socialism is all about ???

Typhoon
May 10, 2005, 09:59 PM
Californians voted Proposition 187 into law in 1994, curbing state resources for undocumented immigrants. It was immediately challenged as unconstitutional and the courts agreed. It died on the vine...

Whoops - bountyhunter beat me to it...

QuickDraw
May 10, 2005, 10:16 PM
This is what kills me.Prop.187 passes and the courts
decide its un-constitutional in what..24 hours?
The USC can't/won't rule that the 2nd ammendment
means what it says in what...200+ years?
I'm really getting tired of this!

QuickDraw

444
May 10, 2005, 10:27 PM
"I suggest we designate a few states where they can live in happiness and safety and not be bothered by the terrible racist bigots and rednecks."

How about Mexico ?




People complain about the cost of health care. It is President Bush's fault, or it is the mean Replublican's fault, or it is the drug companies, or it is the health care industry................................
Ever stop to think about how many OTHER people you are paying for whe you get that bill ? Maybe the answer isn't the conspiracy you think it is. Maybe. Just maybe, it isn't the evil right wingers or the evil American business that try to make an evil profit: maybe it is laws by lefties that make those of us that work and make money, pay for everybody else that doesn't.
This stuff isn't free. Medical equipment, drugs, and staff have to be payed for by somebody.

StrikeFire83
May 10, 2005, 10:40 PM
People complain about the cost of health care. It is President Bush's fault, or it is the mean Replublican's fault, or it is the drug companies, or it is the health care industry................................
Ever stop to think about how many OTHER people you are paying for whe you get that bill ? Maybe the answer isn't the conspiracy you think it is. Maybe. Just maybe, it isn't the evil right wingers or the evil American business that try to make an evil profit: maybe it is laws by lefties that make those of us that work and make money, pay for everybody else that doesn't.
This stuff isn't free. Medical equipment, drugs, and staff have to be payed for by somebody.
You are living in fantasy land if you think that large multi-national health corporations such as Humana and PacifiCare aren't at least partially responsible for rising American health care costs. When you have complete VERTICAL INTEGRATION, with the same company owning the insurance concern, the brick and mortar hospital, and having stakes in the sale of pharmaceuticals there is going to be collusion and price hikes, which will inevitably hit consumers in the pocket book.

Not to mention stand alone drug companies like Pfizer, which are routinely given billion dollar bail-outs by the federal government yet continue to create drugs which TREAT conditions yet fail to CURE them.

I’m not saying that illegal immigration isn’t putting a huge burden on American taxpayers due to aliens’ use of social services, but to give government and corporate America a blank check is simply naïve and ridiculous.

444
May 10, 2005, 10:44 PM
That horse has been beaten many times before, but is off topic.

But, just for the heck of it, what do you think the ratio is for people seen in an emergency room that have insurance or pay their bill vs. those that don't have insurance and don't pay their bill ?


P.S. I have worked as a professional paramedic for over 20 years. I don't have a real answer to that question but I have a guess that I bet isn't far off. Better yet, what percentage of people with no means to pay call an ambulance to get to the ER ?

2nd Amendment
May 10, 2005, 10:55 PM
The mega-corps certainly account for some portion of the high cost of healthcare but the bulk remains on the back of malpractice insurers and the need to charge to cover the fees, court costs and related skuldugery. Another sizeable chunk is created by the cost of funding those who will not(I didn't say cannot) pay AND those who stick it to the insurance companies as well.

And that leads to a curious recent experience: Wife wanted a small mostly cosmetic procedure done. Fee: Around $1100 plus a couple hundred in other various fees. IF we did not have insurance to cover it, which we thought was the case. However we found out it in fact WOULD cover it. After insurance coverage guess what we paid...?

About $1300 total. Everything billed to the insurer went to about $4700... See a problem there? Now I expect this with cars, it's how the collision game works. If you're paying from your own pocket the cost will usually be around a third what the cost is if insurance is eating it, but the same routine in the healthcare industry?!?!?! There's only one word for it and that is corruption. And in asking several family members about procedure costs they have had over the past few years those who knew in advance what it was going to cost them out of pocket consistently paid about the same amount as the original estimate AFTER insurance paid two or three times that amount...

This puts the bulk of corruption right at the ground floor. Another box lot chunk lands on attorneys and malpractice insurers. I'm sure that leaves a nice ugly piece of the pie for the corporations but if we wade through all the other money-suckers to get to them will we even be that worried about them any more? Well, ok, I like fights so let's get 'em, but financially we can solve the worst of the problems in other ways.

That is, of course, if anyone would actually ever address the real problems, but that wouldn't contribute to the desired goal of socialized medicine, now would it? You think that paying for Illegal's bills isn't another small brick in that wall, too? Got a bridge to sell ya...

444
May 10, 2005, 11:10 PM
That of course is the point.
Obviously illegal aliens arn't entirely responsible for the cost of health care in the US, but they are a part of it.
The other things involved are for another thread.

sumpnz
May 10, 2005, 11:18 PM
I have no problem with the FedGov paying hospitals for the care of illegals. I just wish they'd have also made it part of the law that however much was spent was deducted from the foreign aid given to the country of origin of the illegals. In a sense that would mean the country of origin was paying for the care of their own citizens. Not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

wingman
May 11, 2005, 09:54 AM
Ever stop to think about how many OTHER people you are paying for whe you get that bill
Yes, my medical insurance has double in past 5 year yet it pays 20% less
and I go to the doctor very little. As more enter my state(texas)premiums
and cost go up. My question still stands how many can America and its
taxpayer take in, we police the world send money to third world countries
so much so it gets lost, yet we feel we cannot provide social security and
health care to our "legal Citizens" then in the end how much population
increase of the slave labor force can we tolerate.

Well I guess one way out is provide very little services to anyone and
that would solve the problem but wait then we would be called Mexico. :rolleyes:

Art Eatman
May 11, 2005, 04:13 PM
For all you young folks: I've been in-and-out as a patient (albeit not that often) for decades. Much of the time I paid my own bills; stuff not covered by insurance.

So: Prior to roughly 1985 or so, I didn't particularly worry about an office visit. The cost ran from maybe $15 to maybe $25, depending on what I needed.

Then, guess what? Our Government decided to be helpful. All this help, plus the laws about Medicare and Medicaid and the paperwork pertinent thereto, added administrative costs to all doctors. Then factor in lawsuits and the rise in malpractice premiums. In Florida, $5,000/WEEK for an Ob-Gyn. In Thomasville, GA, $1,000/WEEK for an osteo-surgeon I knew.

Costs started spiralling ever higher, so somebody dreamed up the idea of HMOs to hold down costs. Wonderful. HMOs, being in the business of turning a profit, imposed terms and conditions that controlled procedures--and thus their own internal costs. Would anybody expect otherwise?

Once again, "TANSTAAFL" raises its ugly head. That sucker just won't go away, will it?

But at least Our Government is helping us.

Hokay: Illegals are contributory to the problem. Never forget, however, that the basic problem existed long before all these numbers of illegals became impressive. We elected the folks who've promised all those Free Lunches.

Art

StrikeFire83
May 11, 2005, 04:20 PM
^ EXACTLY.

We're on the same page here.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
May 11, 2005, 04:41 PM
And if we don't like it, I guess that makes us "Vigilantes" in the eyes of the current administration.

You can only push people so far before they push back. I am not advocating for this, just making an observation: I give it 24 months before packs of good ol'boys decide to try out those deer rifles on the border and stop the problem there.

Were you trying to taint just Southerners or all hunters with that stereotype?

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