[A Cleaner]

I know many feel a pistol grip is of limited use. Still others maintain they are completely useless. I'm willing to entertain notions on both sides of the line. My reason for asking: I may have already mentioned somewhere else on THR that I am in the process of planning a custom-built nightstand that will conceal and secure my Rem 870 HD. The pistol grip drastically shortens the necessary height of said nightstand. On the other hand, I don't want to win the concealment "battle" and lose the effectiveness "war".

Whadya think? Any merit to swapping stock for grip, if I train heavily with it pistol gripped? Far many here far wiser than I, so I ask humbly.

Just to get things warmed up, this is what I am already sadly aware of losing if the stock goes.

...better aim, control, retention.
...method to brace magnum loads.
...a place to butt cuff or bolt on extra shell storage.
...a good thing to swing at BG's melon in CQ's if no ammo.

[Hkmp5sd]

Why not put a folding stock on it? Better than a PG only, and meets your size requirements.

[sm]

Do a search on PGO shotguns, be ready for LOTS of reading.

I am not the only one that has trained folks to use these things. I hate them with a passion. Armed Guards in the back of the Armored truck , oh how I hated having to demonstrated how to use one. Not much room in a Armored vehicle , still I proved a full stock I could use and would prefer.

HD, weapon retention is best with a full stock. Bashing heads, , faces and knees is best with a full stock.

I have broken PGO stocks, and full stocks in training, both wood and synthetic. The wood is denser and I felt I did more damage AEB by the result from butt-stroking stuff.

I have busted the PGO when using the muzzle end to defend myself , ( training) then again I have bent bbls and ruined the crowns on shotguns in training too.

Full stock gave me more force of energy applied to attacker, distance from attacker, and more mass to swing as a club.

I personally found it easier to take away a PGO shotgun from someone.

This all stuff that really does not deal with the actual firing of the shotgun, deals with retaining it, taking one away , or using as a club. It is a tool , just more than way to use a tool...even different as designed.

[Nnobby45]

If you eliminate the stock completely, you do all your shooting from the hip. The shotgun is one step obove worthless, and endangers innocents.

If you put a folding stock on the thing, you'll pound your face and it'll be uncomfortable to shoot. No way will you want to practice with it and become proficient. Folding stocks are for places where space is at an absolute premium (on a boat?) and for those who already have become proficient. The stock has to be unfloded for use, since it will likely prevent the gun from ejecting after the first shot (on some designs), and forces one to hip shoot in an emergency if one has no time to unfold.

Pistol grip stocks are for SWAT team members who need one hand free. Straight stocks are for those of us who want to practice and shoot a lot, and be proficient. I don't criticize thos who want the pistol grip stock, but stay away from the other options.

[waterhouse]

I spent about 6 months trying to talk my brother out of putting a pistol grip on an 870. One day he called after a trip to the range and said, "you were right." He has since switched to a folder, and seems to think it's a lot less unpleasant.

Keep in mind I've never shot a pistol gripped shotgun. Everyone I trust that has done so has told me they regretted it, and sometimes in life you don't have to touch the hot stove yourself.

[BillL223]

A co-worker had a PGO stock on an HD gun and had never shot it, He also still had a plug in the tube. I offered to remove the plug and take him to the range for a little practice. While hosing some targets from the hip, he had inadvertly loaded in some slugs while I was shooting. My wrists still hurt, this was several years ago. My HD and competition gun is a Benelli with conventional stock.

[A Cleaner]

...the factory 870 stock is going back on. No more reason needed to convince. I followed the link that sm provided and within 2 minutes found this phrase,

"They are good for storage in tight spots. That is about it."

Now that's the abridged version of the quote but it led to a minor epiphany :eek:

It's not about storage, it's about a straight shot, good follow-ups if necessary, and a plan B ("B" is for Butt-stroke). Factory stock is critical for all above tasks. Thanks again, guys. Especially you, sm.

Finally, sorry for posting really stale content. It seems this debate has already been conducted at length. I will have to search old threads more thoroughly before I think I'm original in my ponderings. :o

Man, I'm gonna have to build one massive nightstand.

[sm]

Nightstands, we don't need no stinkin' nightstands... :D

Adapt, Improvise and Overcome. Oh - and keep your mouth shut to any and everyone. Out of sight - out of mind. Can't steal - what is not there. ;)

I dunno those freight damaged tool boxes bought "right" and bolted to the enhanced bed frame, and done in a manner that the enhanced lock, opens the door to easy access works.

Just finished overseeing a metal door jamb being installed for a bedroom, metal door too with the bar set up instead of chain. Now if for some reason the BGs make it through that, her cell phone is speed dialed for direct line to LEO. She is gonna use heavy dresser for cover...

That Ironing board that mounts into the wall ...darn, forgot the ironing board, there is another shotgun in there besides the one her hubby has in the tool box.

Closets have ciruit breaker boxes...granted this one is kinda oversized... ;)

Locksmith had these really neat locks...good idea to have locks on ironing boards, breaker boxes and tool boxes....wouldn' t want to have them open accidently or nothing...

Metal detector...I'll be, supposed to metal in that house where wiring, bed frames, and such are located...imagine that? ;)

Think outside the box. If you were a BG with a metal detector - where would you look? Where would you pass up and ignore?

Hubby may have to be out of town sometimes, don't mean the wifey is afraid or not able to take of herself.

We won't mention the bathroom ( showering) the kitchen, the den, the guest bedroom...

What Guns?

[Art Eatman]

Buttstrokes are for Garands and suchlike. Two-piece stocks don't take kindly to that usage.

However, even if one does not pull trigger, a rake down the face with the sharp-edged muzzle, or a strong poke in the throat or eye strikes me as a good way to persuade somebody to change attitude from hostile to submissive...

:), Art

[CaCrusin]

While I agree in principle with much that has been written, I must disagree with it in practice. There is no reason to dismiss PGOs and folding stocks with a wave of the hand, as all are not the same. I am in reference to the line of recoil-reducing stocks and PGO produced by Knoxx Industries. I am including links to demonstration videos that show folding stocks and PGOs that can be as effective as a standard stocks. Watch them and then tell me what you think.

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/Sidewinder_BroadBand.htm

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/SideDurability_BroadBand.html

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/COPstock_BroadBand.html

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/CompStock_BroadBand.html

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/RifleCompStock_BroadBand.htm

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/Breachers_BroadBand.html

http://www.knoxx.com/ActionVids/SpecOps_BroadBand.html

CaCrusin :cool:

[sm]

Buttstrokes are for Garands and suchlike. Two-piece stocks don't take kindly to that usage. Art...yeah I know, neither do one-pc Nova Stocks. :D I think I now hold the record for busting 3 Novas :p

Gee Art...you sound the seasoned fella that had me stepping and fetching using that shotgun to stop an immediate threat.

Only lost a couple of inches off a 870 bbl when poked the BG in the Adams Apple...granted the "apple" was a heavy 3" chuck of steel.

Kinda got that 'kilt or be kilt" mindset...I can get a bit "involved" when it comes to not being "kilt".

23" and 25" are great bbl lengths for 870s btw...once you get 'em fixed. :p

--

Not gonna agrue there is place for PGO or folding stocks. For ME, a lowly serf, I don't have a need for one. I used and kept too many full stocked shtoguns "handy". Still do.

Of course I am still prone to go out and shoot 100 - 200 slugs in a day. Just hard- headed, old fashioned and set in my ways I guess.

Being a Reprobate has its perks. :p

[foghornl]

I have a better chance of hitting the target using a PGO shotty by throwing said shotty at the target than by using the conventional method . . :banghead:



That being said, MY Homeland Security shotty is pretty much as it left the Maverick Arms factory, other than I shortend the stock a bit to add a better recoil pad.

[sm]

I have a better chance of hitting the target using a PGO shotty by throwing said shotty at the target than by using the conventional method . .

foghornl,

You are hereby credited with a great idea for a stage to be used in the next Redneck Olympics.

I figure them long jump pits gotta be good for something....35' and 4" folks is the record to beat...okay from Podunk we have a Mossy 500, lets see what Cledus can do... :p

[Rupestris]

Is that going to be a discus type throw or more of a javelin throw?
are there bonus points for throwing a PG shottie with 20 pounds of add-on goodies? ;)

I got to mess around with a PG shotgun as a teenager. We spent the day trying to make it fun and more comfortable. Being a tall lanky teen, there was no comfortable way. Best I could manage was to actually put my trigger hand right about where the "love handles" now reside :p . Yeah, I said teenager. Which, of course, means not the brightest crayon in the box.

I figure if my body is going to take a beating I might as well make it my shoulder. repeated punches to the gut begin to get old - fast.

Since then I have been offerd to shoot others PG shotguns and can turn it down every time. I've managed to steer clear of PGs for close to 18 years.

It only took one ride on a tuned Kawasaki 650 dirt bike on a gravel road to cure me of another mental brown-out. - Eh, but thats how ya learn things. Right? :neener:

[Mesa Tactical]

It's not about storage, it's about a straight shot, good follow-ups if necessary, and a plan B ("B" is for Butt-stroke).

Ahem. In Plan B with a tactical shotgun, B is for bayonet.

[sm]

Is that going to be a discus type throw or more of a javelin throw?are there bonus points for throwing a PG shottie with 20 pounds of add-on goodies? ROTFL

WE are gonna do different classes, gotta have equipment races in this dealie.

"Ultimate Class" *snicker* - if ya can pick it up, carry it, and chunk it down dowrange to the jump pit - it is legal. :D

Bonus points for stylin' , ( gots to look good getting there ya know)

Anybody got an idea how to mount a Glitterdome and Strobe on a PGO ?

I gotta plan.... :neener:

...where's my bailing wire and duct tape....

[A Cleaner]

Good point...pun shamelessly intended. This is a HD defense shotgun. The only reason that a PG was involved was to shorten the overall length. The PG's presence does not indicate "tactical intentions" for this gun.

While I understand the value of long pointy pieces of metal (I own many knives), the additional length of a bayonet (per the reason for the original post at the top: reducing length), would not do me any good. I have conceded that I should reinstall the factory stock but I will not tolerate any more length than that. So, in this case, "B" will have to settle for buttstroke.

I understand what you're saying though. If circumstances were different, bayonet would quickly become "Plan B".

[A Cleaner]

Any more info on bayo lugs for the 870 in case the aforementioned "circumstances" should arise on my end? I saw something mentioned about them in another post of yours.

[Mesa Tactical]

We had a minor setback with regard to the design we wanted to use. We'll clean it up some and then maybe have something on the market in the autumn.