10 ounce .45 double action derringer

[stiletto raggio]

Yeah, I know this is deceiving, but this is a concept, not an available product. It just sort of popped into my head last night.

I will give credit where credit is due. The COP Derringer always seemed like a unique concept, but it's weight (25 ounces or so), width (1") and notoriously horrible trigger pull (like 16 pounds) seemed to undercut the utility of the design.

First, I would use polymer for most of the grip, frame and trigger guard. The plate against the rear of the chambers (firing pin face plate?) would be steel, of course, but molded into the polymer frame.

Second, I would go back to the classic two-barreled derringer configuration to reduce weight and width.

Third, I would have a large trigger guard with a double action trigger and integral safety (a la glock). This trigger would be significantly lighter than the COP (say, 5 pounds) because the barrel release slide would also partially cock the hammers.

Fourth, to make reloading easy, the barrels would pop up like a shotgun instead of rotating around like traditional derrigners. A small spring-loaded ejector would be incorporated into the design. It would be mounted to the side and manually held forward while the action is closed. When the barrel release is pulled, the barrels would pop up and eject the empty casings.

Last, a set of XS big dot sights would me dovetailed into the top barrel. Fast to acquire and snag free, they seem to be the optimum sight configuration.

I based my design criteria around getting major caliber round into a gun that is significantly smaller than a P3AT, roughly the same weight loaded, and with enough barrel length to make the most of the two shots available. The lack of a slide makes it posible to put the bore axis really low in the hand, making the gun smaller and more controllable than an auto could be while maximixing grip area.

I think the gun could be made with a width of .8", height of 3.2", and length just at 4". Recoil would not be pleasant, but the bore axis, polymer frame and relatively low operating pressure of the .45 ACP would make it bearable, certainly no worse than the baby .357s.

Is there interest in something like this? I would certainly get one as a back up.

More explanation at http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4244901#post4244901

I know it is kind of tacky to post a link to another forum, but the explanation posted there is pretty clear.

[halvey]

I'd buy a 10oz .45.

Shop it around - I wonder if Bond Arms could build such a thing?

[stiletto raggio]

I was actually thinking that they might be the ones to do it. They certainly have the credibility and experience, although they would probably need to have theframes made elsewhere since they don't do polymers.

[scbair]

Well, it wasn't made in .45 (to my knowledge), but IntraTec (of Tec 9 fame) used to make a double-action duoble-barreled derringer similar to your sketch (with a polymer frame, even!) in .32 H&R Mag, .38 Spec., and, possibly, 9x19mm.

[TMM]

i assume there is there a selector switch for the barrels?

nice gun, i'd probably like it for a pocket gun. if anything does happen, i'd like it to be in more than just .45...

and wouldn't you need to moonclip it, assuming you're using .45 ACP?

~TMM

[Moonclip]

There is a company called the Downsizer corp or something like that that makes the WSP(worlds smallest pistol) that seems similar in concept but is not polymer and is single shot. I think factory recommends you do not shoot like more than 2-3 rounds a day to not cause hand damage!

American Derringer Corp makes some of their line available in a lightweight model, not sure if 45acp is available but 44spl is I think. I'm not so sure I'd want to fire that along with derringers in .223rem or 45-70 they did or do make!

[RyanM]

http://www.downsizer.com/

[loandr.]

I own the AD M7 .44spl.(7oz.) lightweight and its a pussycat to shoot.
Loandr.

[enfield]

I'm debating (with myself) if it really needs a rear sight.

wouldn't you need to moonclip it, assuming you're using .45 ACP?

not necessarily - not if the chambers are machined with a step for the case mouth, and you're not concerned about reload speed. Heck, I'm not positive that anyone would WANT to reload it. :what:

[Kevlarman]

Cool!
It sorta reminds me of the Semmerling LM4!

[stiletto raggio]

I think "H clip" would be a more apt description, but yes, it would probably be the simplest way to make the whole thing work.

I was surprized to see the Intratec derringer... this would certainly be of higher quality.

[skidmark]

I like the idea. I'll buy 2.

But then I own a Downsizer WSP in .45 ACP and love it, so I must be crazy. And the trigger pull on that has got to be over 20 pounds. (Never put a scale on it, but everyone who has tried it agrees it is the hardest pull they have ever experienced.)

Forget sights on the derringer. This is going to be a "belly gun" - something you shove into the other person's belly and then pull the trigger. Max useful range for something like this probably runs to no more than 12 inches from the end of your fully extended arm.

My only concern is the Downsizer WSP is 28.2 oz loaded, and you are suggesting 2 rounds in something 1/3 the weight. Everyone who has shot the Downsizer WSP has said the same thing about the experience. Quoting them verbatim: "Day-yum!" Most accompanied that with some sort of flailing about of the shooting hand, while a few tried to find comfort by placing their hand under their armpit or between their legs. Truth is, not even ice will help.

But, like I said, I'll buy 2. :D

stay safe.

skidmark

[loandr.]

i knew a fellow with the downsizer in .45 as well, he had the trigger pull reduced at the factory and is was about 13lbs. still a tough one, Dont know about loaded BUT I believe is was 11 onces empty , tough to see how (1) .45acp round would double + its weight to 28 oz. Pretty sure it is 11oz.

Loandr.

http://www.downsizer.com/

[scbair]

I'm shocked that the Downsizer WSP reportedly weighs more than 28 oz.!! Is that a type-o? I have the lightweight ADC in .45ACP; it weighs either 10 or 11 oz., and has a very sharp recoil (imagine . . . :rolleyes: ). The heavy DA pull doesn't surprise me at all;

Accuracy-wise, if I enter a room, close all doors and windows, and fire both rounds, I usually hit something at least once. :D I am actually giving some thought to it as a BUG in an ankle rig, solely for use if assaulted while seated in my vehicle. I usually pocket carry a .38 snub, which works well unless I'm seated or tackled to the ground. An ankle rig is much more easily accessed from those positions, and a range measured in single-digit feet is within the ADC's accuracy capability. If I've gotta get some lug offa me NOW, a pair of .45s has possibilities. :scrutiny: The ADC offers short height and light weight, vital considerations for ankle carry.

It might also be useful as a defense against Grizzly attack; if a Grizzly charges, I could quickly shoot myself, saving a lot of pain... :what:

[Old John]

Hi Y'all,

Well, if it's only 2 Shots you want, I have a Bond Arms Texas Defender.
It's a .45LC/.410ga. Single action, SS, Derringer, w/ a trigger guard.
It squeezes off real easy. Good trigger.

It's not y'ur Granddaddy's old Derringer.
The locking mechanism is smoother & easier to use.
It has a rebounding firing pin, safer.
Oh, and a crossbolt safety too.
Check it out:
http://www.bondarms.com/
It's a little heavy at 21 oz.
DSW Sharon insists I carry sumthin out here on the new place.
We have 13 acres w/ a pond up against the State Forest.
This little gun w/ a .410 shell will cut a copperhead in two.
It kicks just a bit. but not too much to handle it.
DSW can shoot it okay. She has one in .45acp & loves it.
Have a good-un.
Old John

[halvey]

Did you get the 3" or 2 1/2" version? I looked hard at one, but they had the 2 1/2" in stock, not the 3".

[skidmark]

What can I tell you? I put it, loaded(Golden Saber, 230 gr), on the postage scale and that's what came up on the screen. :eek:

Maybe I'll get some weights & check the scale. Could be an "employee suggestion" in the works if it is not reading right. 10% of the difference, times last yerar's postage bill, could be a chunck of change.

I can't get factory work on MY Downsizer, if the guy is still in business, because I made him feel bad when I complained that he took 3 months to send me a gun after he cashed my money order. Seems he & I disagreed over "for sale" meaning in-stock-and-ready-to-ship-to-your-FFL or I-need-your-money-to-buy-materials-and-pay-other-bills-so-I-can-build-yours-from-scratch. Anyhow, I got it eventually and as heavy as it is, and as heavy as the trigger pull is, I carry it in a custom case that looks like a pager carrier. I know that when the adrenelin begins to flow the trigger pull magically becomes very light, and there is absolutely no felt recoil.

The only thing you MUST remember if you carry one is that without something to push the spent cartrige case out, you are not going to peel that empty from the chamber. Lucky for me I also always carry a pen. Makes a great ramrod.

stay safe.

skidmark

[stiletto raggio]

It isn't just the weight or caliber or tirgger pull that scares me about the downsizer... that grip looks about as unergonomic as possible. OUCH.

[loandr.]

stiletto that was exactly what I found when shooting it. good point. way to squared off.
Loandr.

[skidmark]

That Downsizer fits right into my hand. Recoil is straight back - no muzzle rise at all. As long as you have it firmly into the hand you ase OK, but if not -- well, you are aware of Newton's 2nd law? Yes, you are setting off a .45 ACP in the palm of your hand. There is a reason why the instructions say not to shhot too many in any 24-hour period. :D

stay safe.

skidmark