[trickyasafox]

if your not gonna be pushing rounds over a 1000fps, in 38 and 45 is it really necessary to get the ultra hard bullets? i was thinking 12 BRN would be enough? anyone have any opinions?

[Wil Terry]

Will work very well indeed. If you have good lube upon them, and a beeswax/alox4138 lube is wonderful, you can shoot the dickens out of them with every success. The part lead bullet hardness has played in shooting them has been far overblown to the side of hardness. Most all pistols bullets sold today are FAR too hard for the job at hand.

[HSMITH]

I agree with Wil. I like bullets at about 7 BHN for typical 38 special and 45 target loads. With any decent lube accuracy is good to great, and leading isn't an issue at all.

The only soft bullets I was able to find were my own cast bullets, the alloy was about 98% lead, 1% tin and 1% antimony.

12-14 BHN is PLENTY hard for 1400 fps magnum loadings. Most commercial bullets I have bought have been 15-20 BHN, WAY too hard for 99% of my shooting.

[WayneConrad]

For my edumacation, what is the cost of using harder bullets than necessary? Is it increased wear on the barrel?

[brickeyee]

Bullets that are harder than required for the velocity (really the pressure) can have problems upsetting to seal the bore. This often results in gas blow by and horrible leading. Followed by trying to make the bullets even harder. The conclusion is that 'lead ain't worth s***".
For low pressure and velocity swaged bullets (pretty much dead soft pure lead) work very well. 148 HBWCs are typical of these.
For higher pressures a harder bullet can be used and still upset.
Gas checks can also be used to reduce blow by, but ony on a bullet designed with a heel for the gas check.

[grendelbane]

A bullet which is harder than necessary may actually lead more than a soft bullet at the same velocity.

The softer bullet will expand and properly fill the bore. The hard bullet may not, and if gas gets past the base, leading may result.

I wish that casters would make softer alloy bullets available. The cowboy shooting movement has helped here.

[trickyasafox]

so will a BRN of 12 be okay for a 45? or should i try to find something softer

[Father Knows Best]

Brinell 12 should be fine for .45 bullets at reasonable velocities. It's harder to get much softer and still maintain good castability. As always, sizing the bullet properly to your bore is important.

[Sharps Shooter]

Yeah, commercial cast bullets that are too hard is one of my pet peeves - I'm sick and tired of hearing commercial bullet casters bragging about how much harder their bullets are than the other guys. Cast bullets that are too hard will not expand to fill the bore. I believe the term for the expansion is "obturate." At any rate, if you don't get enough expansion of the bullet in the bore to seal the hot gases behind it, the bullet leads up the bore of your gun something awful. Of course you can force the cast bullet to expand by using high pressure loads, but who the heck wants to hot-rod all the time. A BRN of 12 or 14 is fine for almost all of the shooting I do with .357s, .44s, and .45s. As a matter of fact, I use those soft, swaged lead SWCs from Speer or Hornady for practice and plinking. They don't lead if I keep velocities down around 700-800 fps.

[WayneConrad]

Just to see if I'm getting this...

If the bullet is too hard for a given pressure, it will fail to obturate, there will be blowby, and it will lead up your barrel something fierce.

If the bullet is too soft for a given pressure, the gasses will melt their way past the bullet, which also leads up the barrel.

So, if you want higher pressures, you have to use harder lead, but if you don't want higher pressures, you ought to stay with softer lead.

Have I got that right?

[fecmech]

"If the bullet is too soft for a given pressure, the gasses will melt their way past the bullet, which also leads up the barrel."
Wayne--
I don't think that statement is really true. You can push soft bullets fast (1200-1300fps) depending on being sized correctly and a good lube. When people try to push commercial soft bullets fast they get leading but that is mainly a lube problem IMO. Most of those bullets just have a light coating of lube on the skin of the slug or Knurling marks holding a light wax coating. Accuracy will degrade somewhat with the soft bullet but if you are using a regular cast bullet with lube grooves and a good lube (NRA 50/50, Rooster HVR, and other quality lubes) I have not had leading problems. I've shot cast hollow points in the .357 and .44 mag in the 1200-1300fps range that were cast of a 20/1 lead tin mix which I believe is less than 10 on the brinell scale. I used them for woodchuck hunting and accuracy was decent and expansion great. I was using the NRA 50/50 alox lube at the time, you can go soft and reasonably fast with no leading. Nick

[Ben Shepherd]

Wayne- you have the general idea.

As for a direct answer to you question: BH 12 will work fine for what you are doing if sized correctly.

[happy old sailor]

if a bullet is too soft - when it enters the rifling it is not rotating on its axis and, being soft, the rifling will strip the outer portion of the bullet away without imparting the gyroscopic action necessary to stabilize its flight. then, you have never seen leading like this.

when i first began casting, the rule of thumb was just that. brinnel testing was not available as it is now, so the thumbnail was used to see if a bullet could be marked. easy to mark was too soft and no mark was too hard. then they came out with alox. i have used it exclusively since and recommend it to all who are lubrisizing for whatever reason.

i currently shoot a lot of Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets in my magnums and generally shove them hard. i have had no leading problems and they seem to be as accurate as other stuff.

most all bullets will work at .38 and .45 velocities if lubed well. i found the soft bullets to be not as accurate as a wee bit harder, the thumbnail test again. shoot a couple bullets into water and examine their rifling marks. best way i have come up with to see if they are taking the rifling properly. that freckling on the base is where the hot gasses has vaporized the lead, to less effect with harder bullets. doing your own testing is a pleasant and informative way to spend a couple hours. some bullet casters do not pay really close attention to their alloy and will produce softer/harder batches

these remarks about exhaust my knowledge of the subject. other posters seem to have a better handle on it. GOOD lube goes a long way toward leveling the odds on what shoots good and what doesnt. dont skimp here