Really bizarre incident..


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jsalcedo
May 15, 2005, 02:04 PM
An off-duty constable working security at the Alamo Quarry Market shot a man in the head and himself in the hand after confronting the man as he fondled himself in the parking lot this afternoon, police said.

The man, whose identity was not being immediately released, was taken by helicopter to an area hospital. He died around 7 p.m., San Antonio police spokesman Sgt. Gabe Trevino said.

An ambulance was transporting the constable to a local hospital. His injuries were not life-threatening.

The incident occurred at about 4 p.m. in the Quarry parking lot outside of Old Navy and Whole Foods.

Trevino said the Precinct 4 constable responded to a complaint about a man in a black vehicle masturbating in the parking lot.

When the constable confronted the man, he slammed the door shut on the constable's hand and began dragging the officer with him, Trevino said.

The constable then began to fire his weapon, shooting himself once in the hand. He managed to free himself from the car door and shoot the motorist in the head. The motorist had continued driving, slamming the car into other vehicles, Trevino said.

The shooting disrupted business as usual at the Quarry Market.

"People are definitely scared," said Brenna Kuykendall, an employee at Old Navy. "It's very choatic here. There are a ton of police officers. There's a lot of noise and confusion going on."

Kuykendall said she didn't realize what was going on until she heard the wail of the sirens.

"I didn't hear any (gunshots) because at Old Navy our music is so loud," she said.

Kuykendall said police were not allowing any customers to exit the store for safety purposes.

Another shooting in the Quarry Market parking lot, this one just after midnight, took another man's life in February 2002.

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Standing Wolf
May 15, 2005, 02:06 PM
That settles it once and for all: only the police and military are qualified to have guns.

DigMe
May 15, 2005, 02:49 PM
That's one tough dude. Hand stuck in a door? I'll just shoot it off!

In the case of the dead guy, apparently masturbation leads to more than just blindness!

brad cook

Biker
May 15, 2005, 02:59 PM
I would've stood back a ways if I was that cop. Be damned if I'd get within..ummm....*shooting* range! :uhoh:
Biker

dev_null
May 15, 2005, 03:06 PM
I'm trying to figure out why the cop had his hand in the door in the first place. Was he trying to zip the guy up? Lend a hand? Or just a dumb place to rest his free hand while leaning over? :confused:

Preacherman
May 15, 2005, 03:17 PM
Link, please?

Steve in PA
May 15, 2005, 03:28 PM
"When the constable confronted the man, he slammed the door shut on the constable's hand and began dragging the officer with him, Trevino said.

The constable then began to fire his weapon, shooting himself once in the hand. He managed to free himself from the car door and shoot the motorist in the head. The motorist had continued driving, slamming the car into other vehicles, Trevino said. "

So from this we get........

"That settles it once and for all: only the police and military are qualified to have guns."

Let's see what you do when according to the story, the constable had his hand stuck in the door and was now being dragged down the street.

Just another ACE reply. :p

Daemon688
May 15, 2005, 03:36 PM
Did he shoot his hand first or second?

Maybe he had a little difficult time aiming his gun while being dragged.

jefnvk
May 15, 2005, 03:48 PM
The shooting disrupted business as usual at the Quarry Market.

Ya think?

I would also give the officer the benefit of doubt, I can't imagine it being easy to shoot while you are being dragged by a hand.

Cacique500
May 15, 2005, 04:19 PM
One link for the story:

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=551605A2-7FB0-4137-ABCF-3968DF3E1B20

Man Dies After Shooting at Alamo Quarry Market
LAST UPDATE: 5/14/2005 2:22:44 PM - WOAI.com
Posted By: Andrea Rigsby

One person has died after a shooting outside the Alamo Quarry Market Friday afternoon.

We're told an off-duty constable saw a man performing a sex act outside the Old Navy store at about 4:15 p.m. The constable tried to get the man to stop. Somehow, the constable's hand got stuck in the door of the man's truck.

Witnesses say the man took off driving with the constable's hand stuck in the door. Police tell us the Constable pulled out his gun and accidentally shot himself in the hand, then shot the man in the head. The man's truck rolled into several parked vehicles.

The constable was taken by EMS to the hospital. The man was taken by airlife to the hospital, where he later died. No one else was hurt.

GRB
May 15, 2005, 04:22 PM
I too give him the benefit of the doubt especially since he was answering a call about a possibly deranged person - I mean how many normal people masturbate in their car in a public parking lot!

Not a good situation in which to find yourself. Being dragged by a vehicle with your hand caught inside the car is pretty tough. There probably are not many ways to extricate yourself from that situation. Firing your weapon in a situation like that is a desperate move, but it is definitely a desperate situation. As for how it could have happened, let me just say that removing an uncooperative person from a vehicle as not as easy as it looks on your favorite but usually ridiculous cop television fantasy show. In real life bad guys are often able to resist - and the cop has to do what he or she can to make them comply if he/she can do it at all. If you try to remove a person from a vehicle by yourself and, if that person really wants to hang in there - you can have a real hard time expecially if that person is a nut case.

Now think about the parking lot masturbator for a moment. Do you think that person is at all normal? (If you do I feel sorry for you and for society.) If he resisted, then the only way to get him out is for the officer to at least place part of himself in that car. Then if the guy goes whacko or, if he gets even worse and starts violently resisting the officer with no regard for life, the officer can be at a real disadvantage and can easily have a body part slammed in or caught in the door. Do you think you could out move a suspect who had his hands in plain view on the steering wheel if he suddenly tried to slam the door on you as you made to pull him out of the car. You are moving in to grab, you grab, he turns or just grabs the door and slams, starts the car and goes (both done at same time with different hands - and this is a handy sort of guy). Your arms are in a restricted area (cannot be helped as sometimes you have got to go one on one with a guy in a car and take him out). You try to pull back but the door is closing catching you. You maybe are off balance by now but if not once the car moves you sure are if you are caught. Bad scene. Then you realize holy poopy I am about to either be hurt really bad or die. If that car gets moving too fast the officer is ground meat or maybe even dead. What would you do to stop that car had you been in that situation?

A head shot sounds pretty darned good to me and; if you cannot figure out how the officer may have also put one into his own hand in trying to stop the driver, then you need to think just a wee bit more because it does not take much of an imagination. Maybe it was the same shot, maybe the first shot, maybe the second shot - does not matter much, so long as he can justify however many shots he took. My guess is the bad guy was holding the door shut on him with his left hand, and the bad guy let his grip go when he met a small piece of copper jacketed lead that came his way. My guess is that that head shot saved the officer from serious bodily harm or death.

Maybe the cop should never have gotten that close, maybe he should have, maybe he needed to in order to lock the guy up. Maybe the cop was right maybe just a putz. Of course, this all could look differently when more facts are available but, right now it looks to me as if he probably did the right thing surmising upon what little we already know.

All the best,
Glenn B

centac
May 15, 2005, 04:29 PM
Draggings are happening all too frequently. There isnt a 'good" way to get a resistive subject out of a car except perhaps a Taser. Mr Bartley makes very good points: as dangerous as it is we have to close distance to make an arrest.

Assuming the account is correct I have no problems with an officer shooting in a dragging like this, which poses a significant risk of death or serious physical harm. I'd prefer doing it wiyhout shooting myself, though

Preacherman
May 15, 2005, 05:15 PM
If the officer was shooting through window glass in the door, it's more than possible that his round veered off-course after penetrating the glass, and hit his hand. Bullets do wierd things after penetrating glass...

another okie
May 15, 2005, 05:15 PM
A fellow I knew in law school had been a New Mexico state trooper who was dragged a substantial distance and somehow managed to get his gun out and tell the guy to pull over or he would shoot. Don't remember many details, and as I remember the former trooper didn't remember too many details, either.

gunsmith
May 15, 2005, 05:48 PM
An off-duty constable working security at the Alamo Quarry Market shot a man in the head and himself in the hand after confronting the man as he fondled himself in the parking lot this afternoon, police said.

How do you shoot and confront some one while your fondling yourself? :neener:

280PLUS
May 15, 2005, 09:02 PM
Big or little?

:evil:

We had a local police officer shoot himself in the foot while being dragged, the BG got away IIRC.

El Rojo
May 15, 2005, 09:12 PM
LOL Gunsmith! That is certainly what it says doesn't it?

Anyone who suggests the cop is an idiot for shooting himself while being dragged by a man in a truck is quite possibly doing a self-assessment. If you are getting dragged by a vehicle and you have to shoot your way out, you might unintentially shoot yourself. This is hardly a calm, relaxed day at the range situation.

As far as assessing his tactics, any comments at this point are complete assumptions due to the lack of evidence. Why even bother speculating?

I mean how many normal people masturbate in their car in a public parking lot!Do you want an honest answer or do you just want to hear what you want to hear? :eek:

Model 624
May 15, 2005, 09:20 PM
Comment deleted by moderator - not THR material. :evil:

hillbilly
May 15, 2005, 10:15 PM
Anyone who criticizes this cop for shooting himself in the hand either isn't thinking clearly, or has a bad case of mall ninja-itis.

I challenge anyone who criticizes this cop for shooting himself in the hand to try the following.

1) Take a buddy and a pickup to a grassy field somewhere.

2) Roll down the driver's side window, and grab hold tightly to the door with one hand.

3) Have your buddy take off in the truck at about 20 mph.

4) Try to move your other hand into a shooting position, all the while trying to do the followng:
a) stay on your feet
b) stay out from under the wheels

Now, to make it really interesting, keep the above scenario going, but have your buddy try to run into fence posts, a parked ATV, cows, all sorts of obstacles in an attempt to scrape you off the side of the truck.

And keep in mind, the cop also had the extreme pain of a crushed hand to deal with....remember, it was stuck in the shut door?????

It's a miracle that the cop is still alive tonight.

hillbilly

GRB
May 15, 2005, 11:20 PM
Do you want an honest answer or do you just want to hear what you want to hear?Just a rhetorical question - I know the answer that many would give - it all depends on your definition of public! LOL.

Standing Wolf
May 15, 2005, 11:24 PM
Roll down the driver's side window, and grab hold tightly to the door with one hand.

Not me. No, thanks. No way. Even if the criminal is driving one of those little Geos, it still outweighs me by quite a little bit, and has lots more horsepower, too.

I once slammed a truck door on my trigger finger minutes before a bullseye match in the boonies of northern Michigan. I learned an excruciatingly painful lesson about fingers and doors.

If I were a wagering man, I'd bet a nickel this constable won't each into a criminal's car again very soon.

pwolfman
May 15, 2005, 11:27 PM
Hillbilly,

Ya gonna incorporate that scenario into your CCW class?

:D

pwolfman

bogie
May 16, 2005, 07:00 AM
What I don't understand...

An off-duty constable working security at the Alamo Quarry Market shot a man in the head and himself in the hand after confronting the man as he fondled himself in the parking lot this afternoon, police said.

Reads to me like the fellow interrupted the constable...

mfree
May 16, 2005, 07:42 AM
Speculation:

Window's closed, officer has a glock or other DA pistol, pulls pistol, aims through window, truck swerves, muzzle hits glass and pistol whips up, trigger is pulled, pistol discharges into hand.

It's not hard to imagine, especially if the hand is caught in the top of the door.

Bart Noir
May 16, 2005, 02:35 PM
Isn't this Texas? I thought that Constable was a police officer in the UK etc. Do any of these United States also use this term?

Aren't cops world famous for teasing each other? The "constable" will probably be the recipient of a few first-rate joking comments, assuming he heals well enough to work again. Considering how fragile and important the hands are, I have some concerns there and most certainly hope he recovers.

Bart Noir

20cows
May 16, 2005, 02:47 PM
Do any of these United States also use this term?

Yeah, they're all over the place in Texas.

A constable is usually a part-time elected LEO position that pays little to nothing, but provides an area, usually rural or small community w/o funds for a regular police force, a local peace officer presence.

Rebar
May 16, 2005, 03:25 PM
I consider being dragged by a car a life-threating situation.

LiquidTension
May 16, 2005, 07:04 PM
We have constables in SC, but they're voluntary. They work at the request of the Governor, usually helping with things like football games and Bike Week in Myrtle Beach. They are LEOs, with all the priviledges that come with it...being able to carry in areas where CWP holders cannot, etc.

As for the story....well, that guy's daddy shoulda rolled over and shot him on the wall. Some sicko jacks it in a parking lot and then tries to drag a LEO to his death? Yeah, humanity suffers no loss with his passing.

Azrael256
May 16, 2005, 07:29 PM
IIRC, constables are something akin to mini-sheriffs. Dallas County has something like a dozen precincts, and each constable is something like a sheriff in his precinct. They are real cops, state certified and all.

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