Now, how do we react to this?


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priv8ter
March 16, 2003, 10:47 PM
American Protester Killed in Gaza


RAFAH, Gaza (CNN) -- An Israeli bulldozer Sunday killed an American woman protesting the destruction of Palestinian houses in the Gaza city of Rafah on the border with Egypt, Palestinian security sources and witnesses said.

The woman, identified as Rachel Corrie, 23, of Olympia, Washington, was taken to a hospital, where she died of her injuries.

She had been part of the International Solidarity Movement, a group protesting Israeli actions in the occupied territories and recently appeared in a televised mock trial in which President Bush was accused of war crimes for his support of Israel's actions in Gaza.

"This is a very regrettable incident," an Israeli military source said. "This is a group of protesters who are acting very irresponsibly.

"They are putting everyone in danger, the Palestinians, themselves, our forces, by intentionally placing themselves in a combat zone. We are checking the details of the incident and believe it to be a very regrettable incident."

A member of the group, who described herself only as Alice from London, England, said she and Corrie were seated in front of houses belonging to their friends as the bulldozers approached.

Alice said they had been seated for three hours and the driver of the bulldozer must have seen them before driving over Rachel.

She emerged from underneath the bulldozer saying, "'My back is broken, my back is broken,'" Alice told CNN.

The arrival of ambulances was delayed because drivers were afraid to approach the Israeli forces, Alice said.

Tom Dale said he was about 10 yards from Corrie when the incident occurred. Dale said Corrie, clearly visible in an orange jacket, placed herself between the bulldozer and houses targeted by the Israelis.

As the bulldozer lifted a pile of earth, it moved forward and captured Corrie under its blade, Dale said.



I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I am Jewish, and beyond, believe in the Maxim, Might Makes Right...so I have no problem with the continued growth of Isreal in the disputed areas.

But, I live in Washington, so I am going to have to here about this girl for weeks, I'm sure.

If it really happened like this, and the bull-dozer made a bee-line for the protesters, than I feel someone made a poor choice. But, I can't see the Isrealis taking a chance on angering the US by running over one of our folks.

Truthfully, while I feel bad for her parents and family, it underscores what can happen when we go sticking our nose where it doesn't belong! Like the kid that got caned once upon a time...it serves to remind people that our way of doing things isn't quite so bad is, it?

In an effort to keep this gun related, How's about them there Desert Eagles?

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MitchSchaft
March 16, 2003, 10:53 PM
protesting the destruction of Palestinian houses

Uhhh:uhoh:
She got in the way of a freakin' bulldozer. Can you say Darwin?

jsalcedo
March 16, 2003, 10:55 PM
Any idiot who would stand in front of a moving bull dozer
deserves the Darwin Award.

So.. she was protecting the houses of islamic militants and their right to bomb civilians.

Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes it eats you.

Abe
March 16, 2003, 10:56 PM
We have a winner! (http://www.darwinawards.com/)

- Abe

dude
March 16, 2003, 11:01 PM
oops





.................she was not in Kanas anymore, it happens

cool45auto
March 16, 2003, 11:02 PM
:rolleyes:

Thumper
March 16, 2003, 11:05 PM
Seems to me these two points of view are mutually exclusive:

1.) "I'm protesting murderers and killers."

VS.

2.) "I'm gonna sit down in front of these buldozers to keep 'em from moving."

If I truly believe I'm facing down a murderer, I'm not gonna sit down if front of his bulldozer.

TechBrute
March 16, 2003, 11:09 PM
She got in the way of a freakin' bulldozer. Can you say Darwin?
No kidding.... sheesh.

Exactly why should we react at all? She's old enough to be responsible for her actions. She was probably some little silver spoon brat that daddy always bailed out of messes. :rolleyes: If she knew that she would be run over, I'm sure she wouldn't be there. It ain't the US of A over there. Free speech is not guaranteed.

Airwolf
March 16, 2003, 11:09 PM
http://flymeaway.net/images/darwin.gif

TechBrute
March 16, 2003, 11:12 PM
I can't see the Isrealis taking a chance on angering the US by running over one of our folks.
Yeah, the US might issue a statement or something crazy like that...

Bruce H
March 16, 2003, 11:18 PM
Ain't it lovely what happens when idiot protesters come up against brute force. Bet none of the others in her little group tries the same stunt.

Sisco
March 16, 2003, 11:19 PM
Hey, no one said being a human shield would be easy.

cheygriz
March 16, 2003, 11:22 PM
It's sad, no doubt. but maybe our people could take lessons from the Isrealis.

capt_happypants
March 16, 2003, 11:25 PM
A shovel and a garden hose.

Porter Rockwell
March 16, 2003, 11:35 PM
Hello, it's strange that so many Americans were outraged when the Chinese ran over protester with tanks.
I say nuke the whole frigging middle east including the israelis, after all israel has broken far more UN sanctions than Iraq & Iran combined and actually does have WMDs. A religous fanatic is a religous fanatic whether he wears a funny cap or a rag for a hat.

Lone_Gunman
March 16, 2003, 11:48 PM
The voice of reason has spoken...

Gewehr98
March 16, 2003, 11:53 PM
and lost.

(same phrase should go on her headstone)

Yohan
March 16, 2003, 11:57 PM
Airwolf, you took the words right out of my mouth! NICE!

http://members.aol.com/NCLax7/goodri_1.jpg

"She emerged from underneath the bulldozer saying, "'My back is broken, my back is broken,'" Alice told CNN. "

LMAO!!!


-One might say- the bulldozer driver wasn't full of any bull when he said "MOVE"

ahadams
March 16, 2003, 11:57 PM
well the Christian part of me is sad because anyone that messed up obviously wasn't born again. On the other hand, sitting in front of a bulldozer has got to indicate brain damage of some sort, no?

10-Ring
March 17, 2003, 12:02 AM
I feel bad that someone was killed so senselessly. I also understand that she went there as an adult of her own free will ad put herself in that position...:rolleyes: It's just all senseless.

Bob Locke
March 17, 2003, 12:07 AM
Adult decisions have adult consequences. She chose to place herself in harm's way, and she paid the ultimate cost for it.

Sad, on a number of levels.

DE44mag
March 17, 2003, 12:11 AM
Maybe someone should have told her that if the dozer don't swerve then GET OUT OF IT'S WAY:what:
and the Desert Eagle is still shooting good!!

Malone LaVeigh
March 17, 2003, 12:14 AM
I salute a brave young woman who died like a warrior, fighting for justice as she saw it.

And a lot of folks here have revealed themselves to be the exact opposite. Chicken***t back benchers carping and making utterly crude, cretinous remarks. There is very little Christian in any of you.

JoeSF
March 17, 2003, 12:33 AM
This is a very regrettable incident that I am sure Israel is going to pay for in public opinion.
Every construction worker knows to stay clear of heavy equipment because the operator can't always see you. If the operator did it deliberatlely he is a murderer.
I dont know what happened but I am sad for this young girl.

JohnKSa
March 17, 2003, 12:52 AM
I salute a brave young woman who died like a warrior, fighting for justice as she saw it.
Standing in front of a slow-moving piece of earth moving equipment isn't fighting. Getting run over by a bulldozer isn't dying like a warrior, it's just plain stupid. And you don't get justice by interjecting yourself into someone else's war. At best you get publicity, at worst you get dead.

Jedi_7.62
March 17, 2003, 12:57 AM
There is a fine line between courageous and foolish.
This way crosses that line.

If the people who lived in the house had the good sense to move why didn't she.

I regret that a young life was wasted but unless she was somehow imobilised she is now dead because she was stupid.

By the way what does christian have to do with this?

What do you think the last thing was that went through her mind?

tred?

She has my vote for the Darwin award!

fallingblock
March 17, 2003, 01:16 AM
Foolish. Only a foolish individual would place themselves under a moving bulldozer in an emotionally-charged situation such as this one. A 'warrior', I believe, would have made some attempt to carry the action to the enemy, not passively become a protoplasm stain on a bulldozer blade. I believe 'self-martyr' is the more appropriate descriptive term for this woman.

As for sentiments, there probably wasn't much "Christian" in the driver or the terrorist's family whose house she was 'protecting', either.:rolleyes:

JoeSF
March 17, 2003, 01:25 AM
Here is a story with some eyewiness accounts that suggest it was not an accident.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030316/ap_wo_en_po/me_gen_israel_palestinians_147


here is an excerpt...

American protester killed by Israeli bulldozer; Arafat proposes changes that could dilute prime minister's powers
Sun Mar 16, 3:40 PM ET

By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A bulldozer on Sunday killed an American woman trying to block Israeli troops from demolishing a building during a military operation in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites). At least one Palestinian also died.



The killing — the first of a foreign demonstrator in 29 months of fighting — came as Israelis and Palestinians wrangled over the terms of a U.S.-backed plan to end the violence and establish a Palestinian state.


Rachel Corrie, 23, a college student from Olympia, Washington, was trying to stop a demolition in the Rafah refugee camp. She died in the hospital, said Dr. Ali Moussa, a hospital administrator.


"This is a regrettable accident," said Capt. Jacob Dallal, an army spokesman. "We are dealing with a group of protesters who were acting very irresponsibly, putting everyone in danger."


The army said soldiers were looking for explosives and tunnels used to smuggle weapons.


Greg Schnabel, 28, of Chicago, said four Americans and four Britons were trying to stop Israeli troops from demolishing a building belonging to Dr. Samir Masri.


"Rachel was alone in front of the house as we were trying to get them to stop," Schnabel said. "She waved for the bulldozer to stop. She fell down and the bulldozer kept going. It had completely run over her and then it reversed and ran back over her," he said.


Several Palestinians gathered at the site, and troops opened fire, killing on Palestinians, witnesses said. The army had no comment on the incident.


Corrie was the first member of the Palestinian-backed "International Solidarity Movement" to be killed in the conflict that has claimed more than 2,200 Palestinian lives — about three times the toll on the Israeli side. Corrie was wearing a brightly colored jacket when the bulldozer hit her. She would have graduated this year from Evergreen State College in Olympia, Schnabel said.

guitar7272
March 17, 2003, 01:25 AM
For some reason I cant help but be reminded of the steam roller scene in the first Austin Powers movie...

Playing chicken with a bulldozer... stupidity runs rampant in those lefties.

Another vote for the Darwin Award.

And I dont know if she went to a palestinian or israeli hospital, but judging by the doctors name it was the former. Any chance they might have "accelerated" her passing in an attempt to sway public opinion?

synoptic
March 17, 2003, 01:49 AM
As the bulldozer lifted a pile of earth, it moved forward and captured Corrie under its blade, Dale said.

It had completely run over her and then it reversed and ran back over her,"

I may be wrong here (it is fairly late and I am quite tired) but does it seem that these two "eyewitness" accounts seem to say different things? Either way, accident or purpose, she should not have been there in the first place. i am sorry it happened, but it is her own fault...

Aikibiker
March 17, 2003, 01:54 AM
I sincerely hope that the brave and noble victim of this terrible incident... didn't breed before she died.

Malone LaVeigh
March 17, 2003, 03:20 AM
The ignorance here is monumental. When committing this kind of act of civil disobedience, there is always the risk that the target of your action will be a murderer. Then the consequences are that you might die. That's the risk that the protestor takes. That's why I called her a warrior.

It's no different than the protestors in the South during the civil rights movement being attacked by dogs. I suppose a lot of you brilliant wits would have nominated Medgar Evers for a Darwin award? Or maybe MLK? The goal is to appeal to conscience and show the world the kind of brutality you are up against.

I have less respect for this group every day. (I appreciate the few exceptions out there... you know who you are.)

MitchSchaft
March 17, 2003, 03:33 AM
It's her cause that warrants the Darwin, Malone.

guitar7272
March 17, 2003, 03:39 AM
I never saw MLK shouting "I have a dream" with a multi-ton implement of destruction bearing down on him Malone. There are better ways of showing your beliefs than martyrdom.

Thumper
March 17, 2003, 03:58 AM
The ignorance here is monumental. When committing this kind of act of civil disobedience, there is always the risk that the target of your action will be a murderer. Then the consequences are that you might die. That's the risk that the protestor takes. That's why I called her a warrior

If she truly believed she was at risk, Malone, you'd be right. But she didn't and you're not.

If we (and our allies in Isreal) were as immoral as you pretend, there'd be a lot fewer protestors.

Why did our human shields not wanna hang around Baghdad? 'Cause they knew we didn't REALLY bomb hospitals.

Soon as Saddam said no hospitals, the "shields" said adios.

Bob Locke
March 17, 2003, 04:18 AM
Malone,

Speaking only for myself, I don't think she was "stupid", per se, but that she took a course of action of her own free will that had potentially drastic consequences. It so happens that she found out just how drastic.

Whether a person believes her cause was just or not is likely going to lead to the conclusion that she was either "brave" or "stupid".

As has been said before, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's all about perspective.

I sort of equate it to how I feel about Ted Kennedy. I hate the things he stands for, but I do give him a nod of admiration for being up front about them. Sort of the same way I feel about this young lady. I think she made a bad decision, but she was willing to see it through to its ultimate ending.

Navy joe
March 17, 2003, 04:38 AM
FWIW with respect to this current conflict I would feel much the same if an American born Jewish settler got blown up. I don't care, they were standing in the way of any chance of a lasting solution. The radicals on both sides ignore two facts. One, the zionists and palistenians are both in effect carpetbaggers. Neither has a greater claim to the "homeland" Two, there will have to be compromise in the form of separate states.

Yassir Arafat should have been shot long ago, the only thing that has kept him alive is how to do it without making him what he ain't, a hero. All Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza should be razed. Jerusaleum will have to be open to all given the nature of its history. Perhaps an independent city-state.

As far as this dumb :cuss: she died defending terrorists. That ought to insruct others of her ilk. Bombing a bus full of civilians is terrorism no matter how effective it may be at achieving your group's goals. She stood in front of a bulldozer rooting out supporters of these acts.

Then I find it particularly galling that I read through here and a member wants to get all whiny because were not as liberal, or passionate or whatever we're supposed to be as he is. If you disagree, post what you think, not a bunch of whiny crud about how terrible everyone else is.

:rolleyes:

seeker_two
March 17, 2003, 05:08 AM
Ya rolls the dice, ya take ya chances...

If you're trying to stop a bulldozer, standing in front of it usually doesn't work. There are much softer spots inside the machine...

cratz2
March 17, 2003, 05:20 AM
I'd be willing to bet these snivling peace people get hurt more often than we hear about. You go to another country that is in a war or a war-like situation and you put yourself effectively in the front line. You're gonna get hurt. I'm sure she didn't think her life was going to end like that as she hopped the plane in Olympia but she made a bad decsion.

Feel sorry for her family but not for her.

Abe
March 17, 2003, 08:06 AM
I salute a brave young woman who died like a warrior, fighting for justice as she saw it.

I am so tired of these moral equivalency arguments. There is no "justice as she saw it" there's just Justice. Plain and Simple. I understand that in the CandyLand world in which she and most others like her live "All you need is love." The trouble is that doesn't work in the real world. People do bad\stupid things every day and pay the consequences.

Don't equate her with a warrior. It's offensive to those who are. We have about 250,000 warriors in place right now. Some won't come home. Don't call this person a warrior. She was a goofy little busy body that should have stayed home. It's not brave to stand in front of a bulldozer, it's stupid. She made a bad choice and she paid the ultimate price for her bad choice.

Finally, there's nothing un-Christian about calling wrong wrong (or in this case stupid stupid.) If we'd do that on a few other subjects (un-related to guns) in our society we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

- Abe

:fire:

faustulus
March 17, 2003, 08:20 AM
Malone,
I agree the woman was brave, however so were the men at Gettysburg during Picketts Charge, brave, but foolish. The two are not mutually exclusive. She did have the guts to put herself in a dangerous situation and I hope she realized this before she went there.
I am saddened by her death, but can't help but feel she could have done more good in other ways. Israel isn't the South, there is no federal government to appeal to and even if there were, the israelis are not looking for approval and don't really care what other contries think of them.
I do wonder what in Israel's history made her think they would blink twice before running her over.
Yes she was brave, but ultimatly it is sad because it is a wasted life.

stevelyn
March 17, 2003, 08:32 AM
Airwolf; Ditto

The gene pool could stand more chlorine.

ZekeLuvs1911
March 17, 2003, 09:15 AM
Stupid is as stupid does. Malone, courage and foolishness is exclusive.

pax
March 17, 2003, 09:33 AM
This is gun related?

I don't think so.

pax

What drives people crazy is trying to live outside reality. Reality is terrible. It can kill you. Given time, it certainly will kill you. The reality is pain ... But it's the lies, the evasions of reality, that drive you crazy. – Ursula K. LeGuin

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