-= Executive Protection=- "He's packing!"

[AechKay]

Hey all,

First off, I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself. I'm eighteen years old, and I live in upstate NY. I've been interested in firearms for quite some time. Due to the restrictions on owning a pistol in my state, I'm moving down South to GA (where I believe the minimum age is 18). My main reason for registering on these forums are simple; I need to gather as much information as possible so I can make an educated decision on which firearm I want to purchase first.

As of right now, I'm enrolling in ESI's Security Specialist Program, which contains two large courses in Executive Security and Intelligence and Investigations. ESI has a 15 day resident training program. Although it's not required, a pistol would benefit me greatly. I've been browsing gun specs over the web for the past two months, and I've narrowed my search down to two weapons, the USP Compact and the Colt 1991 A1. Ill end up getting both, but Im trying to figure out which should come first.

My reasons for choosing the compact fall moreso into my "line of work" so to speak. From what I understand, the USP Compact is capable of firing a .45, a .357 SIG, and a .9mm. Its small...compact even, which makes it easily concealable. Unless you're overseas, there's really no need to be flaunting whatever your packing.

My second option is the Colt 1991 A1. *drool*. When I first layed eyes on this gun [parents, monitor your children :P], I caught wood. Its big, somewhat bulky from the looks, and just strikes fear into people. Wow. I w ould buy this gun, soely on the looks. But this is why im posting. I need to know, is it worth a buy for Executive Protection? Would I get my moneys worth?

Any help would be great. Keep flames down to a minimum, yes im a noob. Its also 4:41 AM so if there are typos too damn bad.

Thanks,

AechKay

[whm1974]

Under Federal law you have to be 21 to buy a handgun or handgun ammo from a dealer. However you can buy a handgun from a private party. You could also buy handgun ammo from a dealer if you state that you have a rifle for it.

BUT some states don't allow those under 21 to have handguns at all.

-Bill

[AechKay]

Well, don't states make their own laws? I would think they (the states) have a bit more power on this issue. I could be wrong, there could be some loophole preventing one from doing so.

Now, buying from a private party? Unless there are government funded shops I would think that's the only way to aquire one. Thus, making the 21 issue null and void?

If anyone has some good resources for handgun laws in Marietta, GA please post some links. I could use a few more. Some of the ones I have seem shady, and I can't seem to find anything on georgia.gov.

Thanks,

AechKay

[Cosmoline]

You're going to have troubles even in Georgia. My google indicates that while it is apparently legal to possess a handgun if over 18, you cannot get a CCW license until you are over 21. You will also be blocked from buying from an FFL holder, limiting you to private party transfers. FFL holders, BTW are not "government funded shops"--they are ANY shops. Any shops at all selling firearms must hold a federal firearm license. That means you'll need to get a handgun from a relative in state or someone else willing to sell to a young person.

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/georgia

If you can afford the rather enormous up-front cost and find someone willing to sell to you, either of those pistols would be excellent. However you really don't need to spend that kind of money. I would strongly suggest starting with a .22 target pistol such as a Ruger Mark II and putting about ten thousand rounds through it before getting a top-of-the-line .45 ACP or USP. Practice and patience are the best approaches. Learning to shoot a handgun well takes a very long time, and you will benefit by pacing yourself. Find the nearest range and get a membership. Take advantage of a basic firearm safety course, and any additional training. Also, take advantage of any insights you can get from old timers. By the time you've done all that you'll be over 21 and in a good position to step up a notch and get a CCW license.

[AechKay]

Thanks for the info!

Ok. Well, I'm not looking for a CCW permit actually, around till I'm 21. It'll take me that long to finish college and my trade school. My father owns a Glock 23. I'll be taking that to the range until I can find my own pistol. And yes! I totally agree with you about pacing myself. I'm a martial artist, and I know how it feels to want to jump ahead of yourself. I also know what happens when people do this...bad form, posture, technique, etc. So I'll take your advice and try to pace myself. But if I have a G23 at my disposal...should I go for that?

Thanks for opening my eyes by the way, to another parallel. I like to try and find analogous connections with martial arts it makes it easier to teach.

Also, one quick question. Could I just get a family member to purchase a pistol from an FCC, and sell it back to me? Would that work?

Thanks,

AechKay

[Cosmoline]

I wouldn't try anything at all in New York, but I belive in Georgia it is OK for a family member to transfer a handgun to you if you're over 18. Check with local officials first, but it does appear that this sort of transfer was the reason for the lower age in GA to begin with. But it would all have to happen IN GEORGIA, preferably between you and another Georgia resident. Don't try to do anything in NY, including any transfers!

If a Glock 23 is what you can find, by all means use it. The ammo costs for .40 S&W are quite a bit higher than for .22LR, but not out of reach. I've seen some good bulk deals around. The reason I suggested a .22 plinker was because of the extreme cheapness of the ammo. Putting thousands of .40 S&W rounds down range is going to set you back quite a bit.

That said, I'd suggest shooting as wide array of firearms as possible, including revolvers. Depending on the range, sometimes people will let you rent firearms and if that option is available take advantage of it.

[AechKay]

I wouldent try anything in NY. I even think we have a law against breathing. Damn liberal state. You have to jump through hoola-hoops or fire to be able to do anything.

Thanks,

AechKay

[jobu07]

Well, let me welcome you to the site, since you say you're new and your post count would confirm this. And also let me say it'l be a shame to lose you in NY. We need all the good guys we can get up here. But, i'm sure Georgia will treat you well.

Yep, no handguns here until you are 21. Which kinda sucks. But that's the same for all states, sans the private party transactions. Buy yourself what you can afford and train hard with it. Shoot it often and master it, executive protection could be fun.

[AechKay]

Heh.

I fully intend on coming back to NY at some point Jobu! As much as I cant stand it, I love the cold and I love the snow. I don't know how im going to survive in GA. Thanks for the warm welcome though.

Yes, I plan on shooting once a week (schedule permitting). Is this excessive? I couldent ever imagine shooting only once a month? How often do you shoot?

Thanks,

AechKay

[Zach S]

My main reason for registering on these forums are simple; I need to gather as much information as possible so I can make an educated decision on which firearm I want to purchase first. Dont stop visiting afterwards, there's a lot of good information and advice here to soak up no matter how many you own.

As for your two picks, I'd go for the 1911, but I own six so I'm obvioulsy biased. The USPc would probably be a better choice for a first pistol, its not unusual for a 1911 to need a little tuning out of the box. Either one will serve you well.

I suggest trying them on before you choose. Not just them either, other makes and models as well.

Shooting once a week is not excessive. Some folks here shoot a thousand or more rounds a week. My minimum is 100 rounds a weekend, although I normally fire two or three times more. Once I went through about 900 rounds or so, but I kinda cheated. At the time the range had an MP5 rental...

[jobu07]

I generally do some hand gun shooting daily. Anything less, would be uncivilized :D Seriously, I find shooting daily is the best way to keep up form.

[hightech]

AechKay, as a certified instructor I strongly recommend that you take a basic pistol course before you purchase anything. :) You need to learn the differences between a revolver and semi-automatic. You need to learn the advantages of each and the dis-advantages. You should get yourself a good 22 lr and practice your fundamentals that you will learn in the basic course. Then take an advance course for how to carry and draw. All of this can be learned and practiced with a .22 cal. After you have mastered and polished your fundamentals, and grown a little older, :rolleyes: you can make an intelligent decision on what center fire pistol to purchase. For time on the range once a week with about 200 rounds practicing your fundamentals will do.

[thatguy]

I remember what it was like being a young man in a hurry. Well, I sort of recall. It was a long time ago.

With the current state of affairs with regards to handgun laws, plan on waiting until your 21st birthday to get seriously involved in any handgun sports or employment.

As for the states making laws, they do. But there is a long list of federal regulations that come first. All states must obey the federal laws, but some states are better than others on restricting gun rights. NY is not among the best.

I can't recommend private security work. Hours suck, pay is crap when you figure the time you put in, you wind up dealing with drunks and idiots all the time not to mention air-head clients. Trust me, it's not glamorous work. Being a cop is better and that's not saying much because police work is pretty depressing and mostly thankless.

You want action, travel and employment involving guns? Get your college degree and join the military as an officer.

[TonyB]

I sent you a PM.....

[CAS700850]

First, contact the school, and ask about firearms training. Determine if they will provide a handgun, or if you can/must bring your own. If you must bring your own, the school may have guideline for action type, caliber, etc.

Now, to answer your question, as beautiful as the 1991 is, I'd save it for a purchase down the road. The 1911 design is frowned upon by many whose concern is more about liability than shooting proficiency, and they see a single action pistol as a liability. Also, many 1911 pistols will need work from time to time to ensure reliability, while many of the more modern designs, like the USP, will run right out of the box.

BY the way, if you are serious about a career in executive protection, I doubt that you will be able to do such work, especially armed, before you turn 21. You might want to consider alternate pathways to your career, like some military service, or some college-level education.

[Technosavant]

As much as I love my 1911, and as concealable as it is (it is large, but not wide- it hides well), I would not recommend one as a person's first gun. While it is now more the rule than the exception for them to work reliably out of the box, you are going to get better initial reliability out of a more modern design (HK USP, Glock, Springfield XD, Sig, etc.).

The best advice is to borrow or rent as many different models and calibers as possible before making your decision. I just jumped into a 1911 in .45 ACP, and while I like it, I do not feel that I made an informed decision, and I probably didn't even make the best one.

[Otherguy Overby]

In Indiana one can get a license to carry at 18

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/indiana

Of course, as always all fed laws apply, too.

[SamlautRanger]

My $.02.

If you are looking at getting in the Executive Protection Field I would recommed if you are medically able to go spend several years in the Armed Forces first. Either in Military Police or Special Operations field. I believe the Army even has a 2 year enlistment for Military Police or go 3 years in Army with Ranger Battalion.

First of all this will give you some good training and give you a few years on age. When you complete your duty you will be over 21, have some college funds to pay for ESI, and have valuable expereince. A military or law enforcement background is a must for most of the higher paying executive protection jobs. Looks better on a resume.

[orangeninja]

Personally, I recommend college and some law enforcement background to do executive protection...unless you want to do it overseas.

As for your gun picks...well brother, let's put it like this. You will need somthing:

1.) Light weight....as packing this for 14 hours begins to get old. Trust me, a 14 hour stretch on EP is the norm.

2.) that has readily available accessories (This will be a challange in some parts of the country, trust me.)

3.) that's in a common caliber. I.E. .9mm, .40 S&W are the most popular .45 ACP maybe, sometimes you may be limited to police supply stores which more often than not will carry whatever ammo the local dept. carries.

4.) that is concealable in all sorts of dress occasions. This is a MUST. I can't over state this. Sometimes you will be in a suit. Sometimes a sport coat. Sometimes a pair of Khakis and a polo shirt tucked in. In which case you'd better have somthing REAL concealable. Think "J" frame or Sig 239.

5.) that won't Chaffe....trust me on this, guns will shred suit jackets and sport coats and your hips and any love handles or body bulgdes. It gets really irritating. Think Miami in July with 90 % humidity. Oh yeah...a rubbed raw special.

6.) that you better be able to buy a SOLID S-O-L-I-D holster for. In fact, you'd better buy a series of holsters for it, all quality.

7.) that you can afford an identical backup for. For instatnce, if you have 1 Glock 23, you'd better have a second on hand in case somthing goes wrong with the first. You won't have time to run to the smith or change your wardrobe as you "swing" by the hotel. You'd better be able to run in and throw somthing in your existing rig.

8.) that can stand to literally go a week or more without a cleaning, in a humid enviroment, while being sweated on, etc.

9.) thats really accurate, think, God forbid, hostage shot.

10.) that has a good amunition capacity. While most shootings are 5 shots or less, you may find that it is radically different for kidnapping attempts etc. where shots can litterally run into the hundreds. Though you don't need to go out like Pancho Villa, it would help to have around 20 or so rounds on you.

11.) that you can shoot rapidly and accurately.

12.) that fits your hand like a glove. You shouldn't even have to think about aiming hardly.

Theres more, but that's a start.

[AechKay]

Dont stop visiting afterwards, there's a lot of good information and advice here to soak up no matter how many you own.

As for your two picks, I'd go for the 1911, but I own six so I'm obvioulsy biased. The USPc would probably be a better choice for a first pistol, its not unusual for a 1911 to need a little tuning out of the box. Either one will serve you well.

I suggest trying them on before you choose. Not just them either, other makes and models as well.

Shooting once a week is not excessive. Some folks here shoot a thousand or more rounds a week. My minimum is 100 rounds a weekend, although I normally fire two or three times more. Once I went through about 900 rounds or so, but I kinda cheated. At the time the range had an MP5 rental...

Oh, I plan on sticking around for a while. The people I've spoken with on these forums seem really respectful and helpful, which is hard to find on the net. As for the Colt, I agree. I've read just about everywhere online that people have had to make adjustments to their weapon which makes me hesitant to purchase it because I woulden't know what I was doing with it. I'd have to find a good range that would be willing to work with me, but that always costs $$. I'll do my best to try whatever the range down South has.

AechKay, as a certified instructor I strongly recommend that you take a basic pistol course before you purchase anything. You need to learn the differences between a revolver and semi-automatic. You need to learn the advantages of each and the dis-advantages. You should get yourself a good 22 lr and practice your fundamentals that you will learn in the basic course. Then take an advance course for how to carry and draw. All of this can be learned and practiced with a .22 cal. After you have mastered and polished your fundamentals, and grown a little older, you can make an intelligent decision on what center fire pistol to purchase. For time on the range once a week with about 200 rounds practicing your fundamentals will do.

I intend on doing this. Trust me. I'm going to call up the range tomarrow, and find out what type of courses they have. http://www.edsguns.com/ That's the closest range to where I'll be living. It's damn close actually, and will save so much gas. Pretty sure my father goes to shoot there. As for the .22, It's all falls into one category, money. If I have the extra money, I plan on doing so but I'll be working part time as it is, going to Kennesaw State Uni on student loans, and hopefully ESI on Salle Mae Loans. My diet will conist of ramen noodles and water. So you have to look at the situation from my point of view. Buy a 22, and eat less ramen noodles for dinner. Or use the Glock and have a surplus of ramen noodles for dinner. :)

I remember what it was like being a young man in a hurry. Well, I sort of recall. It was a long time ago.

With the current state of affairs with regards to handgun laws, plan on waiting until your 21st birthday to get seriously involved in any handgun sports or employment.

As for the states making laws, they do. But there is a long list of federal regulations that come first. All states must obey the federal laws, but some states are better than others on restricting gun rights. NY is not among the best.

I can't recommend private security work. Hours suck, pay is crap when you figure the time you put in, you wind up dealing with drunks and idiots all the time not to mention air-head clients. Trust me, it's not glamorous work. Being a cop is better and that's not saying much because police work is pretty depressing and mostly thankless.

You want action, travel and employment involving guns? Get your college degree and join the military as an officer.

Ok. This is such a dream breaking post! (Just messin with ya man, thanks for being real.) A few things though. If I can get one at 18, thats what im going to do. I want to take all the proper steps in making sure I'm totally legal in what I do, that means if I have to speak to an attourney I will.

As for the military...that's always been an option for me. But, after college (which I do plan on attending, along with my trade school) I always have a job lined up with my father so I dont have to dive into security right away. There are numerous opetions for me. I feel blessed, a lot of people don't have the connections I have.

First, contact the school, and ask about firearms training. Determine if they will provide a handgun, or if you can/must bring your own. If you must bring your own, the school may have guideline for action type, caliber, etc.

Now, to answer your question, as beautiful as the 1991 is, I'd save it for a purchase down the road. The 1911 design is frowned upon by many whose concern is more about liability than shooting proficiency, and they see a single action pistol as a liability. Also, many 1911 pistols will need work from time to time to ensure reliability, while many of the more modern designs, like the USP, will run right out of the box.

BY the way, if you are serious about a career in executive protection, I doubt that you will be able to do such work, especially armed, before you turn 21. You might want to consider alternate pathways to your career, like some military service, or some college-level education.

You can bring you own handgun to the school. I've actually got all this information. This was a factor in deciding on my two weapons. And yes, i know about the 1991 needing work. Military is still an option, and college is a definate.

My $.02.

If you are looking at getting in the Executive Protection Field I would recommed if you are medically able to go spend several years in the Armed Forces first. Either in Military Police or Special Operations field. I believe the Army even has a 2 year enlistment for Military Police or go 3 years in Army with Ranger Battalion.

First of all this will give you some good training and give you a few years on age. When you complete your duty you will be over 21, have some college funds to pay for ESI, and have valuable expereince. A military or law enforcement background is a must for most of the higher paying executive protection jobs. Looks better on a resume.

Ok. I was also thinking a local police department might get me the experience I needed. After college (only require two years), I could get a job in Albany working with the PD. I know a lot of people there from being a Police Explorer for so long, so maybe I could pull some strings. Figure two or three years as a police officer might look good on a resume. I mean, if not for experience (firefights, etc) just to show that I've got some discipline behind me, and bolster all my training prior to being a cop.

As of right now, this is what I'd want my resume to look like in the future:

Speaks French and German fluently
ESI Certified Security Specialist
Served 3 years with Albany Police Department
Dan in Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo. (plus I'll add in my other arts: Diestro Escrima which is stick and knife fighting, and muso jikiden eishin ryu iaijutsu)

Can anyone think of any other skills that I might have that might be resume worthy? :P Maybe I forgot something completely obvious. Yea, there's a good one. Forgets completely obvious resume details.

Alduro, as for your post most of those options went into my search. :)

[another okie]

If you're not interested in the military to prepare you for your chosen career, one possibility is to work as a correctional officer part time while in college. While obviously you must be old enough to have a firearm to be a police officer, some states allow 18 year olds to work in jails or prisons unarmed.

This would give you a taste of this kind of work and put you around law enforcement so you could see what it's really like.

Believe me, bodyguarding is generally boring and low paying work, except at the top end, and at the top end it is dominated by people with significant police or military experience.

[orangeninja]

French and German????

Might I recommend Spanish and possibly an Arabic language.

[AechKay]

You know, a lot of people tell me that. But I want to spend some time in Europe at one time or another in my life. Arabic might be cool.

[Mute]

Since this gun might be needed to save your life or the life of another person, there's only a couple of rules for picking the right one:

1. Completely reliable. (I know that doesn't narrow your choice).
2. Try both and get the one that you a most comfortable and proficient with. Do no let ego, or someone else's ideas of perfection make you choose the wrong gun.

Firearms preferences are very subjective, so find what fits you, but don't be bullheaded. If a particular gun just doesn't work well for you try something different. Good luck.

BTW, I'm a 1911 man so I think you know my answer. You can always get a Commander and it wil be about the same size as the USP Compact.

[AechKay]

Oh! Since a lot of people have posted their love for 1911s and the like, anyone with them...I'd appreciate it if you could mail me any pics of your models. markjitsu@gmail.com is my e-maill addy.

[Mal H]

Here's lots of .45 pics: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=419

[IRONFIST]

I have worked quite a few aspects of the security field since I was 18, from graveyard shift asset control, and a little personal protection on the side to Bouncing in tough Mexi gang bars on the weekends and controlling the center-stage barricade at huge venues for nationally known music acts. I retired from it all a couple years ago (I'm 38 now), and a couple of the best things I think you can have is an eager "can do" attitude, and a professional demeanor.

Do NOT fall into the trap of being overly 'macho' or aggressive because you have physical training and skills that others around you do not. Everyone I think goes thru a phase like this where they feel a bit superior to the general public because of their combat or defensive abilities. I know I did when I realized I had some aptitude for winning in sudden physical altercations.

My head got a little too big for my body and I was swaggering around a bit, until an older wiser Bouncer showed me the error of my ways. I thank him for being a mentor now, even though it was about 18 years ago. In your dealings with all people, try to be more a listener, and less of a talker. On the practical side, emergency medical training is a must.

EMT certification and verifiable extended medical training is a great resume builder, and shows a prospective employer that you are not just interested in the glamorous protection skills like combat handgunning, or defensive driving. learn to carry a small notebook with you at all times so that you can take detailed notes if needed, to suppliment your memory. Situational awareness is key to the survival of yourself, your team, and of your Prinicipal. You don't want your head rolling around on your shoulders like a bowling ball (that will wear you out in short order), but you do have to know what is going on in your perimeter. Details do count.

The good folks here on the board who have advocated at least some relevant military service are spot on as well.
It will benefit you greatly in the future. I certainly wish you luck in your endeavor.

Michael in Sheridan

[ACP230]

My brother bought a 1991A1 about a year after they came out.
I have it now. It's one of the most reliable pistols I've shot.
It's still stock and feeds everything from ball ammo to 185 grain lead semi-wadcutter target loads. Shoots quite accurately too.

No experience with the other pistol mentioned. I've read some good reviews.

If money is going to be tight you might consider a 9mm. FMJ mmo for the nine, surplus and commercial, is cheap now.

[Bill D]

You must be 21 to own a handgun in Ga. Call Hotshots gunshop and range at 770-436-6600 and ask them directly how the law applies to you at your age.They are on Austell Rd. I-75 to Windy Hill Rd. Go west 6 miles to dead end at Austell. Take left and they are on your left-you have to turn around.
Mention me, they are good people.
Now, if you buy anything from Ed's, I will track you down , and bloody your nose! Very over priced. If you shoot there, blow your nose and check the tissue when finished-you won't go back! Just my experience.
Good luck.
Bill D

[AechKay]

Thanks for the info! I figured since it was close I might try it, but you have to think of the gas I'd spend to get somewhere else. I'm going to be living REALLY close to this place. I think it might just even out.

Now, I've been getting PMs from different people from GA that state otherwise. Some say 18, others say 21. I think its 18 to own, and 21 to CCW. We dont have any GA Senators on the boards, do we? :P

[akviper]

Look for an Advantage Arms .22 conversion for your dad's Glock 23. They cost around $250 and pay for themselves in short order with ammo savings. You can buy 1,000 rounds of .22 for around $25 and become proficient fairly fast and the gun will be fun to shoot. You can move up to the .40 caliber after you get the basics down. You will have the same sights and trigger for both calibers.

[GaryP]

From what I understand, the USP Compact is capable of firing a .45, a .357 SIG, and a .9mm :what:




:evil:

[JadeFalcon]

I don't know how relevant this will be in your part of Georgia, but my Richmond County (Augusta) permit is off limits to those under 23. Good luck with getting a gun there before you're 21 as well. And I mean that sincerely, you can vote and die for your country but you can't have a pistol?! Georgia...

As to your selections in firearms, you may want to look at Auto Ordnance for a 1911, but I think you could do better than the USP. Try the Glock 45 or the SIG 45...the SIG I think is smaller and should carry better than the USP Compact. Or for better afforability from the nice people at SIG, you can get the Mauser M2 in 45ACP.
If you go the 9mm route I can recommend no better pistol to start than the S&W SW9GVE (or the black polymer one). Enormous capacity with an unbeatable price. Great reliability as well.
Another piece of advice, carry a backup in the same caliber as your primary. Obviously this will be easiest with a 9mm, but still doable with a 45.

As a recently former soldier I can tell you that the service is a great stepping stone to other things, but if you go that route than I suggest you make as much of it as you can. Get as much training as you can. Get as much rank as you can. Meet as many people as you can. And never let on that you're not willing to do something. Oh, and by the way, never...ever volunteer for something...your supperiors will be more than happy to do that for you.



Best of luck to you and your endevors

[wheelgunslinger]

With your desire for time in Europe and your predilection for European languages like German and French, you'd be a great candidate for service in the Legion Etrangére.
You don't have to sign up for life and you can pretty much write your own ticket in the European circles for Personal Security afterwards.
Don't consider only U.S. forces if you consider a military career.
The legion has a lot to offer you. Dual citizenship with France and USA after 3 years, and lots of other cool stuff. Plus, the Legion has all the High speed/ Low Drag stuff you can shake a stick at.

However, before you join any military organization, READ THE CONTRACT. Know what you're getting into and then if you're still okay with it, then sign.

As for handguns, *shrug*, just shoot as many as you can and pick the one that's right for you and for your purpose.

Luck,
Andre Jacques

[Andrew Wyatt]

shoot everything you can get your hands on before buying a gun. this helps ensure you don't end up with things you don't want.