Equipment Selection for A Visit to the Sandbox...

[Chris Rhines]

Here's how it is - you're going to be leaving for Iraq in six weeks, to do a tour as a technical contractor. Although this is a strictly civilian, non-combat job, you will be required to be armed.

The contract requires you to provide one 5.56mm AR-15 carbine, six magazines, and one .45ACP pistol. Ammunition and other consumables will be provided in-theater.

Weapon-wise, what would you take? What modifications would you have made, if any? Assume an unlimited budget, but whatever you take, you have to be able to get in 4-6 weeks. Note - The rifle MUST be an AR-15 or clone in 5.56mm NATO, and the pistol MUST be a .45ACP self-loader.

The story behind this question is two acquaintances of mine are going to Iraq, same circumstances, and they asked me to help them get their gear sorted out.


Thanks,
Chris

[Arc-Lite]

Firstly, I would send both the AR and the Colt off to a first class smith, and have them go threw it, top to bottom... depending on the "job" I would consider a light rail...or laser sight for the AR.... then I would send both weapons off, to someone who would do a weather proof and self lube finish...on them both and the mags...inside and out.... (Mac's). Find a good sling, for the AR and a good should rig for the Colt... both with mag pouchs. I would take a repair kit, and all lubes and cleaning gear....needed, a synthetic oil, would be the best bet. If this question is directed toward other gear....a GPS, maps, flashlight and batteries and work and carry knife maybe a swiss army, and KBAR...and stone. Water bladder, spare hat,sun block..the list goes on .... set the AR up for use with or with the sights....and the Colt, for quick short shots..tell them both....double taps are a must... a least...and remind them, people die over there...so get your affairs in order.

[Preacherman]

For the carbine, I'd buy a good AR-15 or M4 equivalent from Rock River Arms, Les Baer, or Armalite, in that order of preference. I'd make sure I put at least 1,000 rounds downrange, getting it sighted in and smoothed out, using the magazines I'd be taking with me. This would get the operating mechanism "bedded down". If I could, I'd want an upper with a gas piston, but I don't know how widely available these are - the HK unit would be top choice, IMHO.

As for accessories, I'd mount a four-rail Picatinny fore-end (top, bottom and both sides). I'd want a weapon light, laser unit, a decent sight (ACOG for preference), and possibly a fore-end vertical grip unit. I'd leave a bipod out - the vertical grip can serve as a field-expedient rest. I'd probably replace the pistol grip with a better unit, and make sure that I had somewhere handy to carry additional batteries for all electrically-powered accessories. I'd take at least one set of batteries with me for every week I expected to be over there.

For the .45, I'd carry a SIG P220, possibly the rail-equipped version if I was expecting night combat. I'd have both chest and thigh holsters for it - the chest unit to fit over body armor, the thigh unit to operate below body armor. I'd want a weapon light and a laser unit, preferably Crimson Trace. Again, I'd put at least 1,000 rounds through it before departure, using the magazines I'd be taking with me, and the carry ammo I'd have over there.

I'd send both weapons to Robar to have them treated with Roguard/NP3 and/or any other finish that would improve their operation in a sandy, gritty environment. This would also cut down on the need for frequent cleaning. The gas-piston upper would be a huge plus factor in such an environment. Of the 1,000 rounds of ammo I mentioned, I'd put 500 rounds through each before the treatment, and 500 after, so as to ensure that they were broken in both before and after refinishing.

As for ammo, I'd want the most effective rounds available. In 5.56mm., I'd probably choose either the Black Hills 75gr. load, or Hornady TAP in 62gr. or 75gr. weights. In .45, I'd go for either Remington Golden Saber 230gr. JHP +P or Speer Gold Dot 230gr. JHP +P, with a third choice being the Black Hills +P load.

I'd also make sure I took spares kits with me for both weapons - at least one set of replacement springs and pins, probably two, and also spare magazine springs and followers.

[Arc-Lite]

Another point Chris... slightly off topic, but worth a conideration.. a sniper or the enemy, if able, will pick their target....one, of opportunity, being in the wrong place, at the wrong time... so pick your places CAREFULLY.... and two, in the group your with, if you are with pilots, officers, and specialized civilian contractors....your risk, if your not in this catagory, is secondary....if your with a group, of unarmed workers, and your the only one armed..your the priority target. Going into a hot zone, with no experience and only the zest for quick cash....is sometimes the last bad choice one makes. They have six weeks, to polish ALL THE SENSES..to a razor edge and this must be a 24/7...to hopefully make it second nature. One last piece of gear...yet mentioned.... the best bullet proof vest they can find.... with spare plates. Depending on their build, I would go with a custom hi-cap 45 ACP, and suggest all custom finishes to be non glare.

[Derek Zeanah]

Excellent answers.

Check out the forums over at tacticalforums -- there is some good discussion of terminal ballistics, and they'll list the good rounds to choose from.

A Sig 220 is great (the first .45 I ever fired), but I'd be inclined to go with either a 1911 (I hit best with them, and they feel natural) or a Glock (if'n the idea is "maximize reliability, good accuracy, I'm not really a gunny anyway.")

I'd grab an AR with an adjustable buttstock (think armor and vehicles) and I'd mount a 2-4 power scope on it -- acog, elcan, whatever. Red dots are nice, but after owning 'em both I'm a low-magnification fan.

Not a listed requirement, but how 'bout some high-quality level 3-4 armor?

[Chris Rhines]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

A few points of clarification:

- These guys are engineers, not shooters. They'll be working with the military forces, but neither one is active-duty military. Their firearms are going to be strictly for emergency self-defense, break contact, cover-me-while-I-get-the-hell-out-of-here duty. Hence, I want to keep things as simple as possible.

- The pistol has to be a 1911. Just found that out an hour ago. I was really leaning towards the Sig P220, too. Sigh.

- I'll check over whatever they end up getting. There probably will not be time to send out any weapons for refinishing, but I'll call Robar on Monday. Never hurts to ask.

- Ammo is going to be provided in-theater, and I haven't been able to find out exactly what they'll be getting. Probably, it will be 5.56mm M855 and .45ACP ball.

I'm leaning towards an LMT 16" carbine, short stock (maybe a Magpul M93B), Aimpoint/LaRue, and JP or PRI float tube, and a Colt 1991A1 with all the MIM parts replaced with tool steel, Heinie SlantPros, and Crimson Trace Lasergrips. We'll see how that goes over.

- Chris

- Chris

[Clean97GTI]

For guys who don't shoot for a living, I'd ditch the AR15 and .45.

Use 5.56, but load it into an Arsenal Inc. AK pattern rifle.
I'd use 9mm as it is probably really common over there. Most of our military uses it and I'd surmise that it is readily available in Iraq.

My choice would be an Arsenal In SA M5R and a CZ75 P-01. Stock up on extra mags for each and possibly a light for the CZ. Holster would be a good idea too.
You can also get attachments for the AK's rail that have a standard rail for goodies.

If it must be an AR, just call up Bushmaster and have them send you something with a 20" barrel. Rails are a good idea. If it must be a .45ACP handgun, the USP would be a logical choice. The USP 45 holds more ammo than a 1911 and is lighter and more reliable. A CZ97 might work as well and operates similar to CZ75B.

[Chris Rhines]

Um, sorry. Thought that I was clear. The rifle MUST be a 5.56mm AR-15, and the pistol MUST be a 1911-pattern in .45ACP. Not my choices, true, but that's what I'm working with.

Arc-Lite, message recieved on the body armor.

- Chris

[Clean97GTI]

Meh, don't go if you are forced to use sub-par eqiupment.

I still vote Bushmaster 20" barrel.
I guess if you are forced to use a 1911, make it a S&W or Springfield.

[Preacherman]

Chris, if the pistol has to be a 1911-style, why not the SIG GSR? I think it's one of the highest-quality 1911's out there, and it has a rail in case of need. As for the AR clone, I don't know the make of which you speak, so I can't comment. However, for both guns, I'd make sure of the 1,000-round break-in period before shipping out, that's for sure!

BTW, if you call Robar and let them know about deployment, I think they'll let you jump ahead of the waiting list and do a rush job for you. Most specialists of this kind will do all they can to help.

[bradvanhorn]

Well, you said unlimited budget on two specific weapons, so I'd probably opt for:

1911 - Wilson CQB with light rail

AR - LMT Lower with SOPMOD collapsing stock and LMT 16" CQB Monolithic Rail Platform Package. Add an ACOG TA31 (A or F model) with LaRue mount, Tango Down Battle Grip, Dieter CQD foregrip, have Troy back up iron sights handy for front and rear (in case ACOG gets damaged)

I'm not sure about weapon lights and/or lasers...

As mentioned above, they should definitely have top quality soft body armor, to include Level 4 rifle plates. We use Interceptor, which is fine; personally I'd probably consider a different Point Blank tac-vest if I had the option.

[centac]

The first thing I'd do is find a different company that didnt think so little of its on employees that it wouldnt buy them guns. That just aint right :scrutiny:

If forced to, and these guys apparently are'nt even supposed to be shooters, I'd recommend box-stock m4gerys with no bells and whistles, Springfield mil-specs and spend the rest of my money on training and practice ammo. Then when I got there if need be I'd buy a real 16 from somebody who was leaving.

[Zak Smith]

Easy. Since you're a technical contractor, these are strictly defense only. No need to get fancy.

Colt M4.
An appropriate model Kimber, shot in 1000 rounds.

Both of these have a high probability of working out of the box, and don't need messing with.

The equipment choice is totally secondary to MINDSET.

-z

[Litlman]

I would say go with the K.I.S.S. principle. Colt m4 tactical carbine and since the money is no object, a Wilson or Baer in their toughest finish offered. A complete training on how to keep them clean and running in that environment. No bells or whistles. Point and shoot.

[115grfmj]

combat is rough, dirty, frenetic,, and encounters are quick, with little time
for fumbling. The main principle is KISS. M-4: Rock RIver, Bushy. Send it
out for smoothing, to one of the great ar smiths, just leave off the gadgetry.(Trust me on this one, you wont have time to use it anyway). Get the green
mil-spec followers for your mags. For the .45, get a good mil-spec, like SA,
colts 1991 a-1, your going 230gr hardball anyway, you want reliability for
you last ditch weapon.

I agree on the 1000rds for each weapon, it will make any problems apparent.
Try for a dusty enivro, with little lube on the guns ( BTW use military clp for lube).

In country, use baloons (or condoms) rubber band over M-4's muzzle with rubber bands (keep desert out). Assault sling, (wear m4 across your chest).
Keep in condition one (with all the sh*T going down lately, safteys get you killed). 1911 keep in either leg holster, or assualt vest (swat style).

Practice the mantra "Hi speed, Low drag".


One last thing look people in the EYES!!!!!

[Citadel99]

I've been in Iraq for 6 months now. The only civilians that legitimately carry weapons are the security contractors--Triple Canopy, Blackwater, KBR Security, etc. Outside of the Blackwater/Triple Canopy types, I have only seen sidearms on civilians.

Mark

[sacp81170a]

Only one thing I'd add that no one else has suggested: MAGS, LOTS O' MAGS. As many as they can comfortably carry and still perform their job functions. BTDT, sucks to run dry. :D

[1911 guy]

Using clp is bad advice. Use Break Free, wipe it off after a few mins. and run your weapon that way. Going by the book is the reason our guys are cussing their rifles over there right now. Trust me, had the same situation in ''90. As for Kimbers running right out of the box, don't get me started. Buy something reliable.

[nico]

Using clp is bad advice. Use Break Free
umm, Break Free is the aforementioned military CLP.

I'm no expert, but I've heard nothing but great things about the Springfield TRP Professional. Since it's a custom shop gun anyway, maybe if you told them your situation, they could do a little extra to make sure you'll have a reliable gun.

[1911 guy]

No, the clp we got issued was this white gooey crap.

[bradvanhorn]

...leave off the gadgetry.(Trust me on this one, you wont have time to use it anyway...

Keep in condition one (with all the sh*T going down lately, safteys get you killed).
Not sure where you're coming from on these comments. I can't speak for everyone, but "gadgets" make our Marines more effective. The ACOG has improved hit %'s, weapon lights improve night target ID, etc. Just because these are "defensive" weapons doesn't mean these guys won't benefit from the added capability. Condition One has the selector/safety levers in the safe position, and our biggest threat is IED's and indirect fire. I'm curious where you got the idea safeties are getting people killed :scrutiny:?




I've been in Iraq for 6 months now. The only civilians that legitimately carry weapons are the security contractors--Triple Canopy, Blackwater, KBR Security, etc. Outside of the Blackwater/Triple Canopy types, I have only seen sidearms on civilians.
So sidearms aren't weapons ;)? Maybe things have changed significantly, but I saw many civilians with weapons when I was there. For example, the FedEx guy carried an HK MP5 and a Browning Hi-Power, another guy (can't remember the company) carried an HK MP5K, and yet another guy (also can't remember company) carried an AKSU. To the best of my knowledge, most of the civilians can have weapons, but many simply choose not to. Heck, one of the contractors I worked with was a retired Army SF Sergeant Major, and he didn't bother with a weapon (though maybe he should have).




These guys are engineers, not shooters. They'll be working with the military forces, but neither one is active-duty military. Their firearms are going to be strictly for emergency self-defense, break contact, cover-me-while-I-get-the-hell-out-of-here duty.
Chances are slim to none they will ever fire a shot, but if you're going to have weapons, have the best you can get. These guys will be better off simply practicing good personal protective measures, like maintaining good awareness, using varied routes and times, avoiding places Americans frequent (off-base), etc., etc. Nevertheless, I wouldn't deprive them of the opportunity to fight; give them good weapons and make sure they understand how to use them.


I'll be going back to Iraq myself in another couple months, and I wish your friends good luck.

[NMshooter]

I think the most important thing they could do is to shoot at least 1000 rounds through each firearm before going over there.

Not only will they know that their particular firearm is functional, but they will have gained some experience with it.

As far as what to get, the requirement for a 1911 sounds odd, but any major manufacturer should do so long as you get to put a case or two through it before leaving. The only extra I would really recommend is night sights, and you can make do without if you have to.

For the AR, again any major manufacturer should be ok after putting some rounds through it. As far as configuration and accessories go, I would recommend a collapsing stock and carbine length barrel (14.5" or 16") whichever make and model the individual prefers. A flattop upper receiver should be a given, optical sights are wonderful and a backup iron sight will still be there if you need it. If a rail foreend is desired have them get whatever they want. The Surefire M73 is solid and does not require removal of the barrel and front sight base. There are other ways to mount a flashlight, however.

A flashlight on the belt is a good idea too.

Maybe some professional training too, if they have the time and money.

Most important is to get out and shoot those guns a lot before relying on them.

[Balog]

1911guy: that "gooey white crap" is either LSA or LSAT. I use it on my 240, but I've never seen it put on a M16. CLP aka Breakfree is the oil issued in the standard M16 cleaning kit. The only place I've seen LSAT (which is just LSA w/ Teflon added) is the A bags for 240's. I think it may be issued w/ the MK19 and .50's too, but I'm a gunner on a TOW variant so I'm not sure.

[Hardware]

Some non-weapon thoughts;

Multi tool. I like the SOG powerlock for its gear drive mechanical advantage. I also like the crimpers behind the plier head. Whatever they guys like, get it. The longer you have one of these around the more uses you find for it.

Knife. since you've already got the multi tool for little jobs get something big with a thick spine so you can lean on it without hearing the *ping* of despair. I like drop points over bowies. The big swept tips on some bowies just says "break me off". And I'd stay away from double edged knives. This isn't a commando knife, just something for the bigger jobs. Spend money and get a good knife. If nothing else a Kabar has been a reliable tool and trusty backup and I believe they can still be had for less than $50.

LED light with a head mount. I understand these are very popular. Ten years back I discovered how a AA maglight on a head strap does two things very well. It frees up both hands for tasks with no more effort than looking at what you want to see and it made you look like a total dork. However, vanity aside it was incredibly functional. The LED lights run on lithium or AAA batteries and are about twice as bright as that old AA maglight. While you're at it bring spare bulbs and batteries.

Good luck!

[Hawkmoon]

Chris, if the pistol has to be a 1911-style, why not the SIG GSR? I think it's one of the highest-quality 1911's out there, and it has a rail in case of need.
Bad choice. Sig has had so many problems with the GSR that they have stopped production temporarily. The revamped models won't be available for several months, and IMHO any that are currently available, being the original model, are not reliable enough for hazardous duty use.

[natedog]

I'd second a stock Colt M-4, with a sling. At the very most, add an Aimpoint.

[ziadel]

I'd say RRA M4 and a Springfield Mil-spec.

No need to get fancy here.

[PUMC_TomG]

Well - I'm no expert but I'm going to say that since these guys aren't "shooters" or "operators" it should be kept somewhat simple.

Keeping that in mind I would second all the comments on making sure that the guys are familiar with their weapons by throwing ALOT of rounds through them beforehand.

For the AR - I'd go with an LMT, a Colt 6920 (or actual M4 if they can get one through the corporation), or an SR-15. I would recommend flattops on them all. I would use a GG&G MAD BUIS on them both, along with an EOTech 552. I'd also set it up with a Trijicon front sight on the standard sight post - or if you end up going with a dovetailed front sight mount get a flip up from GG&G. I would use Labelle Mags with the Magpul followers.

As far as other AR accessories I would use the Daniel Defense or a GG&G Single-Point sling adaptor, and use a Wilderness Single Point sling - along with their Giles SPQD.

For the Stock I'd recommend the Magpul Clubfoot stock - or a VLTOR with cheekplate and battery storage compartments.

I'd also go with some sort of pistol grip enhancement... either the Magpul or another nice ergonomic one.

I'd use a free-floated picatinny fore-end or the Surefire M73 - nothing else. Either use LMT, Daniel Defense, or KAC for this. Attach a Tango Down Battlegrip - for battery storage if nothing else.

If I were them I'd carry 9 mags over with me for the AR. One or two may get damaged and it'd be nice to have a good amount of extras in an LBV when you need them - along with one in the magwell.


For a Pistol - I'd probably go with a Kimber Warrior and replace all MIM parts with tool steel. I'd carry it in a Safariland 6920 - or similar.

For illumination tools - I'd have to consider this a little more. I know what I'd carry - but I'm not quite sure what to equip these non-shooters with.

It'd be important to carry some other things too. Spare parts and springs are a definite - spare firing pin(s), etc. As a previous poster stated - bring a supply of batteries one set per device needing batteries per week.

I'm sure you've already got a good idea of what body armor and LBVs to use with these guys too. You're no slouch on gearing up - no frills - no gimmicks. K.I.S.S.

[Dave Markowitz]

If I were in their shoes I'd make KISS first and foremost, and take two weapons I already own:

1. Colt AR-15A3 Tactical Carbine. The only mod is an ambi selector since I'm left handed. I'm waiting for a Hakko 4x21mm carry handle mount scope to arrive, but for this scenario I think I'd go with a EOTech and a BUIS.

I'd take a couple of 20 round mags, plus several more 30s. The 20s are better for moving in and out of vehicles, since they stick out less and don't catch on stuff as much as the 30s. I'd probably take a total of 10 mags, all USGI and all well-tested. Maybe add Wolff mag springs.

Since I presumably won't have access to military logistical support, I'd also take a "field survival kit" like the one Bushmaster sells, but with Colt parts, including a complete spare bolt.

I'd fit the rifle with an Israeli sling, and carry spare mags in a chest pouch.

2. Springfield M1911A1 Loaded. It has an ambi safety, but I'd replace the OEM FLGR with a GI setup though, because it makes takedown a PITA (I'm planning to do this, Real Soon Now).

I'd take 10 tested Chip McCormick Shooting Star stainless steel mags. I have a couple and they work well in this gun. A small spare parts kit would accompany the gun.

I'd carry it in some kind of a full flap holster.

I'd take along a bottle of Hoppe's No.9 for cleaning and a bottle of FP-10 for lube. IMHO, Break Free CLP sucks as a cleaner although it's a good lube. FP-10 is better at both tasks, in my experience. And an Otis cleaning kit.

Although weapon lights are useful I don't feel one is criticl in this particular scenario. I'd be bringing the Colt and Springer as defensive weapons, not for clearing houses.

[centac]

I have stumbled across one gizmo that my benefit these guys. From Diamonback Tactical, the Battlelab Escape and Evasion bag. It is a smallish shoulder kit bag with built in holster, multiple mag pouches, a map case and a flappy thingy I think is for a radio. There is a flap that covers everything so it looks like a kinda butch manpurse ;)

It'll be a neat way to keep everything in one place and grab 'n go. I havent really put it to use yet, but it seems well made and full of potential.

[Sean Smith]

I'd see if I could get a Yost-Bonitz 1* gun for the sidearm. Expensive, but I'd be alot more confident of it actually working than some off-the-shelf gun at its price point. Also, as a contractor this is most likely the weapon I'll actually have at hand at any given time.

For the rifle, just a basic M4.

[Arc-Lite]

I would be much more focused on the weapon, then the name of the smith, that did the work...spending allot for a weapon, sometime has more questionable assumptions... connected. If you pick a good basic weapon, have a good smith go threw it....and then put it to the test..of function and realibility.

[Harry Tuttle]

an FN or a Colt
with da switch

[hso]

Have you asked at AR15.com?

As a technical contractor working for a company that has had technical professionals in Iraq since immediatly following the occupation of Baghdad I have asked similar questions of friends in the service. There was never any option of carrying weapons into Iraq for us, but there was nothing to prevent accessories from being taken. The plan was to take non-magnifying optics that would work with the night vision monocular (Mepor 21), GG&G mounts for flattop and A2 ARs as well as a side mount AK scope mount, 20 and 30 round mags, replacement followers, wolf springs for everything that could be replaced, TDI RIS for both M4 and A2, GG&G BUIS, 3 sets of batteries for everything, and singlepoint sling. BHP was the handgun choice, but if .45 is required I have the P14 with all the unreliable bits replaced already and the magazines (if bigger is better and more is better, more of bigger is best). I didn't expect to use the weapons at anything but close to short range because the security detail was expected to get us out of trouble if we hadn't been able to avoid it in the first place. I expected to acquire whatever I could there with the preference going to the M4, kit it up and trade off the rest of the unused gear for the night vision monocular.

My only personal experience is with my own AR15-type rifles, both Colt SP-1s, but I know plenty of folks that have hundreds and hundreds of rounds through Bushmaster, Rock River, and Doublestar rifles that haven't had problems so I'm not wedded to Colt. If I had an unlimited budget I probably would go with the Lewis Machine and Tool Defender based on what I've read, but wouldn't feel shorted with any AR already mentioned.

Unless they are prior service I wouldn't expect your collegues to integrate into their security detail any better than I would have. That means the weapons choices and accessories should be oriented just as you said, self defense. Compact, CQB oriented, focused on reliabilty.

[chopinbloc]

any accurate ar from a reputable company will do, just test fire it alot. glock 21 is probably ideal. most trouble free pistol i've ever heard of. 1911's are great, but more prone to breakage and - i know how much people will scream about this - not as reliable. face it - old slabsides is picky and a fickle mistress. as for sights xs big dot for pistol. trijicon reflex II for rifle. (i bought one for an ar and now it's on my '16) i don't trust batteries to be properly charged when you need 'em. people have said shoulder holster, but i say strong side scabbard or drop leg. there are some companies that make holsters with adjustable dorp; this is probably ideal. blackhawk's cqc is a great concept, too with it's retention system. there is a tendency to go buck-wild sticking things on the weapons and one's self, but simple is better. most of the sf guys around here have very simple gear. good low light capable sight, comfy and versatile sling, maybe white light, maybe butt stock mag pouch. mag pouches are great inside the wire where you're not wearing you're lbv everywhere, but if you're spending alot of time outside the wire it just gets in the way and all your ammo should be on your lbv anyway. most important is to keep it simple.

[Texian Pistolero]

I suggest they find jobs with a company that is not dumb enough to restrict choice to M -1911. The M-1911 is a specialist weapon, there are safer designs to be carried by non-shooter personnel with limited weapons handling experience.

This sounds fishy, how can Joe Blow just go out and buy a full auto weapon? (some recommend M-4.)

I'd get a semi-Bushy, and a .45 Glock.

Take 10 testfired mags for Bushy, 5 for pistol. Simple sling. Cleaning kit.
1000 round break in.

Need belt and concealed carry holsters for pistol, with mag pouch. Gi. mag pouches for M-16 mags. Want flexibility.

As an aside, can they sign up for some training on thier own?

[olyAR73]

I'm going into the north in a couple months but not as a hired gun. Here's my set-up:
Colt SOP-MOD M-4 A3 w/ Knights pic. rail and forward grip.
Knights BUIS.
Sure-fire tac mounted
PEQ-2A
EO Tech 552 for mounted operations and if I think I may have to enter buildings. I'm issued an ACOG but I have found that I cant make shots quick enough at 25-100m with it from the top of my vehicle, wearing SAP plates. If a suicide bomber is bearing down on your vehicle you will only have a second or 2 to kill him and hopefully make him swerve. We are finding out that 20m of stand off from a VBIED saves lives.

I carry the ACOG for overwatch type tasks. Make sure you mark your rails for easy change out if using multiple optics.
In spite of some negative press, I have been told that well placed M855 penetrator is having devastating effects on the enemy.

I'm issued an M-9 and limited to the issue 124gr. ball. I would suggest your friend take a good service 9mm for a back-up in case of logistical problems with the .45. I have a friend who works for Triple Canopy who informed me that he had some problems getting 45 early in the conflict. That may have changed now though. He also told me that they are limited by contract to use only ball ammo, same as coalition.

[Texian Pistolero]

Speaking as an over fifties dude with bi-focals, if these civilian contractors are the same, they may need to confirm they can see sights well on what ever they get.

(My front sight on my short Bushie is a LITTLE FUZZY!

[Gordy Wesen]

Centac mentioned these guys. Gear-to-go.

http://www.diamondbacktactical.com/Products.html

[HankB]

There was never any option of carrying weapons into Iraq for us,It's dangerous enough for our military, with armor, machine guns, grenades, etc. There's NO WAY I would go there unarmed - period. At this stage of my life, that's more adventure than I want.

Having said that, if I was going there anyway and couldn't get a good USGI M16/M4 variant (that means with full auto or burst control) I'd get a short AR15 clone from Bushmaster, RRA, Wilson, etc., and shoot the snot out of it to be sure it worked. A good optical sight, sure, but no fancy target trigger or multi-loop "tactical" sling that requires working a latch or pressing a button before you lift it into firing position - just pure KISS.

And probably a Baer or Brown 1911 which I'd also shoot a lot first.

(And I'd take some softpoint ammo along, too. Bleep the Hague Accords.)

[Clocktower]

For the rifle go with any of the big names bushmaster, colt, rra what ever floats your boat. I would get an M4A3 and mount an aimpoint co witnessed with the front sight and buy a flip up rear sight. Just put that red dot over anything that needs killing. and if your optic fails you still have your open sights right there.

I am not a 1911 guy but take a look at the para ord 14-45 if its not 2 big for your hands it sure would be nice to have 14+ rounds of 45 on deck. I hear there light double action is a pretty sweet shooter.

Get quality mags... dot mess around with the cheap stuff this is your life... Get spare parts that you may need as well. extractors gas rings... some reading on ar15.com should get you up to speed on common failures.

Stay safe brother...

[CAS700850]

Assuming they are going to be paid very well for the trip, and assuming these guys have a good bit of money up front, I say Wilson. A Wilson AR variant, a Wilson .45, and Wilson mags. Proven track record for relliability, accuracy, and dependability. Also, get these guys some training ASAP.

[YammyMonkey]

I would take what I already have for the most part; a BM Dissy and both my 1911's, in case of catastrophic failure. In fact, I think I'd also buy a back up Dissy (fully set up exactly as the first was) as well and, of course, run at least 1K rounds through it first. After that, I'd start shooting without cleaning so I would know how many rounds the gun could take before malfunctioning due to needing to be cleaned. Obviously it would have to be modified for the nasty sandy conditions in the box, but I think it would give a good baseline.

I would definitely throw on either an EOTech or an Aimpoint as well as both a good single and double point slings (I shoot lefty so the 3-point is out for me) and maybe look into some of the other options like a FF railed forend, light and VFG. Seems like the more rounds I put through my Dissy the more I'd actually appreciate some of those things, but it's taken me quite a few thousand rounds to figure that out.

Couple other things I'd add, at least double the number of mags (GI for the AR and Wilson for the 1911's would be my choice) that I can carry with me on a daily basis, exras left with the backup rifle/pistol combo; again just in case. I don't know exactly what their jobs require of them, but if they can be loaded out with a vest and everything constantly they might even want to look into a full backup of everything kit, but then again that is probably overkill for a non-military/shooting contractor job. I don't know the first thing about tac-holsters, but the vest-mounted ones look good to me. If they have extra stuff when they leave it can probably be sold to others over there or back home. Good sun and clear-lensed glasses, gloves (something like a good pair of Nomex flight gloves) and boots, all with backups. Maybe hit the Army/Navy Surplus store and try to find a used flight suit or two.

Training, training, training. IIRC, there's a guy on here who teaches a contractor-going-to-Iraq/Afghanistan course, that may be good for them.

Just for the record I'm not a professional anything, let alone shooter, these are some of the things that I would consider, take what you want, leave the rest as usual.

[RevDisk]

Personally, I'd recommend any M4 style rifle from a 'big name' company. 1911, just go with any dressed up with Wilson. Have a top notch gunsmith tune them up. Addd whatever optics they feel comfy with.

The name doesn't matter nearly as much as spending the next few weeks getting prepared. If possible, getting used to high temperatures, working out a bit, and drinking lots and lots of water. It takes some getting used to, drinking a gallon or two of water (or more) per day.

They need to wrap up their personal affairs (Will, powers of attorney, paying any bills, etc) and get into the mindframe they're gonna need. I gather they're being paid to be engineers, not shooters. (I take a dim view on most mercs anyways. Nothing but trouble, more often than not.) Yea, they need to be comfy with any weapons they're gonna take. Putting a couple thousand rounds through whatever they intend to bring is manditory.

'Field testing' their equipment is even more important. Kicking it around, tossing it in muddy water, etc. If it still works, bring it. If it doesn't, don't.

[pete f]

Rifle, LMT, real Colt, RRA, Baer, or wilson.

hand gun a brown, wilson or baer.

Really I would call Baer or Wilson and tell them what was goin' on and ask for a deal, one rifle, one pistol, maybe two, and mag's and mag's and mags. would also call surefire and/or streamlight ask the same. all of the above a companies of patriots and do good things. On The pistol, I would get a modified GI version, in fact, if I had to go and all I had was a refreshed 1911ai remington or colt war production, I would be just fine as long as i put nightsights on it.

[Obiwan]

I might consider a 9mm handgun as ammo will be more readily available

[strambo]

Ironically, 9mm is hard to get (at least it has been for us) and sells for $1 per round in Baghdad. I'd rather have a .45 if 9mm is hard to get anyway. I have a 9mm though (company issue) and don't shoot it much. 7.62X39 and 5.56 aren't too hard to come by though.

If you are going to be on BIAP or in the Green Zone, you don't need a weapon at all...no big deal. Outside of those type of well secured locations, yeah, I wouldn't do it without a weapon. All this talk of personal guns is nice, but what I was told was all weapons have to be listed as property of the company. If not, it is a US felony and against Iraqi law to have a privately owned weapon. Oh, and get this, I just found out the ATF is here!! :what: :scrutiny: Talk about muscleing in on extra juristiction to justify your existence. :rolleyes: I guess you could just put in "on the books" when you get here and take it off when you leave, depending on company policy. If they're asking you to provide your own they must have it figured out.

A lot of non-security companies have a no weapons policy. That's why I joined a security one! Well, that and I don't have any "civilized" skills. :p

[Thrash1982]

Can the 1911 pattern pistol be a double stack model? I'm thinking this way they could maybe carry more mags and if they, god forbid, have to use it they can get more shots in between reloads.