[drf]

I want a leather OWB holster with belt snaps for my H&K P2000 in 40. but my decision is coming down to thumbbreak or to not have a thumbbreak and would like some input on how the gun feels and stays secure without having a thumbbreak on a leather holster....Thanks for any information....drf

[Vern Humphrey]

I carry concealed without a thumbreak. The decision depends on three things -- your occupation or activity, your gun, and your holster.

Police officers, security guards, and similar professions need retention, and often choose thumbreaks. Similarly, when riding horseback with a gun, I usually have a thumbreak or strap securing the gun.

Some holsters are less secure than others -- I carry my Kimber Custom Classic in an Inside-the-Waistband holster, where pressure from the belt and body holds the gun very securely. Some OWB holsters are much less secure.

Finally the gun itself is an important part of the equation -- some holsters and guns don't go together well. A good example is the Galco Fletch and the M1911. The thumbreak can dislodge the safety lever, leaving you with a cocked and unlocked gun in your holster.

[sarhog]

some holsters and guns don't go together well. A good example is the Galco Fletch and the M1911. The thumbreak can dislodge the safety lever, leaving you with a cocked and unlocked gun in your holster.

I have a Bianchi Black Widow that does that too. :cuss:
I ended up cutting the thumbbreak strap off and using it as a range holster. :mad:

[Blueduck]

I've heard it said that form fitted leather holsters have three "phases" of life. Too tight, just right, and too loose. Only the second phase is a usefull period.

Might want to think about what that means if your laying out big bucks for one without a strap ;)

[1911 guy]

I carry a 1911 in a Galco holster without a thumb break when concealed. My job isn't very physicaly demanding (machinist) so I don't worry about "fallout". I've got a couple other holsters I use when camping, hiking, etc. that do have the break. Your call for your activity level/mental comfort.

[PCRCCW]

As a holster maker I can say 99% of those who carry a CCW really dont need a thumb break. People say they like the added assurance of one, but IMO its like those who are scared of carrying Cond 1....until you do it for a long time and you prove to yourself its not a valid concern then you can relax.
Some people literally need thumbbreaks, the Secret Service requires one for on and off duty, some agencies do the same thing for off duty carry. Ill tell you from experience of my own and my customers they really arent necessary for MOST people.
All of the top makers who I know or have seen their products use the best leather known to man, literally. When its molded properly it becomes hard and when boned or molded to the guns shape it creates retention. The leather wont soften for YEARS to the point it looses that retention. Even with everyday carry.
You need to look at it from a couple of different points of view. IWB holsters are made with less retention in the holster itself as 50% of the retention is in the holster and 50% comes from the belt/pant pressure from being worn IWB.
So these are made with less retention........OWB holsters are made to retain the gun without the aid of Belt/pant pressure.
Most thumbbreaks are found on OWB holsters and if molded properly from the right leather, really dont need them for proper retention.
Alot of people think if they have a thumbbreak it gives them added assurance that a bad guy wont be able to get at their gun....thus Cops have to have 2 and 3 levels of retention, in case of a scuffle with a BG and hes trying to get their gun. What you need to consider in this case is if your gun is truely concealed like it should be, no BG is gonna know you are armed until your gun is pointing at them. Thus its a moot point........
The level of activity has been brought up.....Ive ref'd a soccer game...ALONE! and ran for over an hour with no problems regarding retention. Ive done a 2 hour Karate class that my son, who so nicely volunteered me for as an opponent for the instructor to beat up on and again had no problems with retention.......both times I wasnt made in the process. All in the name of R&D
I guess you could say.
My vote is for no TBs........I dont find them necessary for CCW.
Shoot well................Eric

[nemesis]

would like some input on how the gun feels and stays secure without having a thumbbreak

Gravity.

[KONY]

Unlatching a thumb-break ... just one more variable to impede a successful gun draw. If you are drawing from concealment, you already have enough things that could go wrong, IMO.

[GILROY]

I wear a thumb break IWB because I ride a motorcycle often with a officer sized 1911. However once off the bike, if I am in a code orange situation, I unsnap the break in advance. I have established the habit of always thumbing the snap anyway. With short pistols its much easier for the weapon to work its way out if you should need to run, take a spill, need to defend yourself non-lethal Kung Fu Crazy style etc. The key is practice what you use.

[BluesBear]

All of my working holsters either have a flap or a thumb-break*.

I have been carrying thrumb break holsters for over 30 years.
I am faster with a leather thumb break holster than I am with a friction fit Kydex holster.

Unless you're playing one of those games where a millionth of a second on a timer makes a difference, If a thumb break slows down your draw you ain't practiced enough.

I insist that my pistol has a safety. So why shouldn't my holster?

[KONY]

I insist that my pistol has a safety. So why shouldn't my holster?

I understand your reasoning but if you are carrying concealed with a properly fitted holster, isn't the thumb-break overkill?

[dolanp]

It's just one more unnecessary hindrance as far as I'm concerned.

[Sean Smith]

A proper holster without a thumb-break should still retain your gun even if you jump up and down or roll around. If it doesn't, it is a problem with the manufacture of the holster, not the fact that it doesn't have a thumb-break.

[CAS700850]

I think you need to make the decision based upon your own skills and needs. Do you normally use a thumb-break? THen get one. Usually carry open-top? Then go that way. If you normally go open topped, and want the thumb-break, Do yourself the favor of practicing. A lot. And then some more.

[SLCDave]

I don't like thumb breaks, for many of the reasons already listed.

[SAWBONES]

Thumbbreaks are evil.

[KONY]

I think with the OWB super retention holsters from outfits like Safariland, traditional thumb-breaks might become obsolete. Of course, lots of semi-auto folks probably said that about the revolver! ;)

[BluesBear]

...isn't the thumb-break overkill?
In my world, when it comes to safety and weapon retention there is no such thing as overkill.

As I said I have practiced using a thumb break for over 30 years. It is second nature for me. I have tried open top models as well. They offer no advantage for ME.

It wasn't all that long ago that holsters with thumb breaks and even regular straps were the norm and open tops were the novelty.

All types of holsters have their place. Use what works best for you. But don't forget that there is no universal best. And please don't dismiss something just because it's not best for you.

However you may rest assured that, if the balloon goes up, my N-frame S&W will clear it's thumb break holster in plenty of time to cover your six.


Practice Safe.
Practice Hard.
Practice Often!

[Z_Infidel]

BluesBear - might I ask what type of holster you use for your N frame? I haven't decided thumb break or no yet, but could use any general info on N frame carry options.

[HKGuns]

I think Eric nailed it. None of my CCW holsters have a thumbreak and I'm not a bit concerned with retention.

However once off the bike, if I am in a code orange situation
Anyone care to splain what a code orange situation is?

I think with the OWB super retention holsters from outfits like Safariland, traditional thumb-breaks might become obsolete. Of course, lots of semi-auto folks probably said that about the revolver!

People still use revolvers? Really? Why?

[BluesBear]

Z_Infidel,
For belt carry I have been using a Galco Silhouette since both of my 20 year old (and still going strong) Roy Baker Pancakes were stolen a few years ago.

I tried a friend's Bianchi #7 Shadow(?) but the thumb snap on his particular one didn't jibe with my .500 Target hammers. (And I didn't want to stretch it out too much for his) But I was pleased with the ride.

If I ever dig myself out of this hole I'll either try a new Bianchi or plead with Eric to recreate a few Baker's for me.

[medmo]

Blues Bear, All of the custom (and expensive unfortunately) manufacturers will put a thumb break on holsters at your request. It usually is around $20 extra. Check out Kramer, Wild Bill's, etc.

Thumb breaks aren't for retention from riding motorcycles or doing hand stands. It is for you retaining your pistol in a fight. The weapon can not be snatched off your hip without some extra effort. Unfortunately, there are plenty of good folks currently pushing up daisies that were killed with their own gun that they brought to the fight. I see a lot of the open top designs and think that people are wasting their money. You might as well go holster-less and jam the pistol in your waist band. Plenty of folks carry CCW because they think that the fight is a possiblity and are preparing for it. Nobody knows when, where or how that fight is coming so prepare for it.

[BluesBear]

Medmo, I agree 100%!

It's mandatory to remember there is a difference between carrying a handgun and fighting with a handgun.
So you know, the issue is not whether or not you have a gun. Every police officer I know of who was killed in the line of duty had a gun with them.
Having a gun with you in a fight may not be the ultimate criteria. Having a handgun with you, you have confidence in, and can effectively fight with and win with, is the key.

And keeping control and possession of that handgun is extremely important.
In fact it very well could become a matter of life or death.

[Majic]

Thumb breaks aren't for retention from riding motorcycles or doing hand stands. It is for you retaining your pistol in a fight.
I beg to differ on this one. The thumb break is the evolution of the hammer strap from the days of the single action revolvers. Not all holsters are form fitted and therefore may not provide a lot of retention without an added feature (thumb break, strap, flap).
Yes it will provide retention in a fight, but that is just one of many activities you could be involved in where handgun retention is required. Remember that the holster's job is to also protect the handgun. It cannot provide this protection if it allows the handgun to slip out of the holster during activities.

[BluesBear]

Remember that the holster's job is to also protect the handgun. It cannot provide this protection if it allows the handgun to slip out of the holster during activities. Also very true.

I just personally prefer the way my handguns easily glide out of my holsters after I release the thumb break as opposed to having to yank them out of Kydex or tightly fitted leather. Reholstering is also much easier for me.

I don't have to worry if the tension screw is too loose or too tight.
I don't have to worry about my holster being so tight it wears the finish.
I don't have to wonder if my handgun has started to come loose.
That simple thumb break insures that my gun is where it's supposed to be at all times. If I need reasurance all I have to do it look or discretely feel. If it's snapped it's secure.

But let me say one more time. What works best for me may not be what works best for you. Thankfully we have the option of so many styles of holsters from so many high quality makers. When it cones to carrying a handgun you truely can "Have It Your Own Way".


Practice Safe,
Practice Hard,
Practice Often.

[BullRock]

In my old LEO days it was difficult to find a duty holster without a thumb break. A while ago, for some unknown reason I suddenly became aware of custom made holsters.

Prior to that, I had been buying open top holsters from Galco in the $55.00 to $100+ range. :banghead: The holsters all fought against the draw, even with their Draw Ease product. Re-holstering was also an adventure, usually ending in my prying open the top with both hands. Ditto, DeSantis open scabboards...

Since coming too, I have purchased 7 custom made open top holsters from Black Hills Leather, and I'm about to purchase my eigth today. Since then I have found several things to be true.

I don't have to worry about losing my guns out of my holsters, because the holsters are made to fit my guns. I don't have to worry about wrestling with my holsters to draw my guns any more, because my holsters are made to fit my guns, and they are lined with smooth leather for easy draw...

I don't have to pry the holsters top open to re-holster because the top is reinforced to remain open, and the holsters are made to fit my guns. The smooth leather interior contributes to easy re-holstering.

Holster positioning is never a problem because Black Hills will custom make a holster the way I want to carry...strong side, weak side, canting, no canting.

And, I'm not paying anymore for a REAL quality custom made holster than I was buying Galco's. For my lighter guns I use a Comfort Belt Scabboard, re-inforced top, and smooth leather lined for $74.90.

For my heavier guns I use a professional belt slide holster, open top, and smooth leather lined for $94.90. My oldest holster is 10 months old, and I can still see my reflection in the shine, and that's my daily carry...

My .02 worth :)

[Gordon Fink]

I still don’t have a get-out-of-jail-free card, so my experience is limited, but I wouldn’t dream of using a holster that rode outside the pants or above the belt without a thumb-break strap. Just ain’t right.

~G. Fink

[pete f]

I know some say only use one type of holster but i changed once and for all when I was climbing in a blown fiberglass insulated attic once and I felt the gun pop out while threading my way over a truss. since then I carry in a ts when I am on the job at home or out on the town, no snap

[shep854]

Good posts, BluesBear. I'm with you. I'll even go a step further. when I carried my Colt Commander, I used a holster whose thumbstrap went under the hammer when carried C&L. If I resume carrying a 1911, I will continue the practice.

The custom open-top holsters are very secure, but that strap gives me a little more confidence in my weapon's security.

[Jack2427]

Prior to putting in my .02 I must state: There are liars, there are dammed liars, there are m************ liars, then come statistics. However, City of Chicago, 1960-2000, over 60% of all police officers killed by gunfire were killed with their own guns, by another police officers gun, or by another police officer firing a gun (presumably accidently hitting the officer instead of the BG). One could make a good case that the officers would have been safer without guns, but realistically, it points out one thing, retaining your weapon is important! It may be more important for a CCW person who does not have backup on call like the officer does(or a BUG). Do not think that a CCW citizen does not have to retain his weapon, it is even more important for them. They may well be with family/friends who are unarmed, and would be put at the mercy of a BG who got the CCW gun. Many gun incidents start out as less than lethal situations and esclate rapidly, and do involve physical contact. I know, I know, if you are alert and in condition yellow, orange or what ever color, you can still be suprised.

However, Mr. Murphy is alive and well, and working hard! If it can go wrong it will, and at the worst possible time.

40+ years of professional carry, and I want retention, even if only by a lowly(and in order of retention it is lowly) thumb snap.

[UPD3315]

My vote is with Bluesbear. Thumb breaks on the holster. They don't slow you down and they certainly provide at least a minimal amount of additional security. Now, you must keep in mind that when I carry I am just as concerned about some yahoo trying to take my gun. If the thing is covered up though you can at least consider not having one.

The most important thing is to BUY A QUALITY HOLSTER. If you spend $20 on a holster you are going to get a $20 holster. You get what you pay for.