FL Paper Publishes CCW List


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mattf7184
May 22, 2005, 11:28 PM
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/index.shtml

I think this is extremely irresponsible journalism. I am speechless right now.
I dont have a subscription, but would like to read their article...

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gc70
May 22, 2005, 11:40 PM
Why be speechless? If you don't have a subscription to the website and can't read the article, how do you know what it says? You apparently assume that the article lists the names of CCW permit holders, but the intro to the article certainly does not say that.

jfh
May 22, 2005, 11:45 PM
There's a 54-page NADS list in pdf format about two links below the teaser.

Justin
May 22, 2005, 11:49 PM
The following should be the standard response for when media outlets do this:

1) Contact advertisers and air your displeasure. Tell them you will not be patronizing them.

2)Dig up personal info, addresses, phone numbers, maps, photographs, town of residence, car model, and TerraServer satellite photos of domiciles for the newsroom and editorial staff. Print out and post in conspicuously public places. Better yet, post it on the internet.

3)Finally, if you feel like it, call the editors and voice your displeasure. Do this preferably around dinner time, or after midnight if you are in a particularly bad mood.

4)ALWAYS REMEMBER TO REMAIN POLITE, BUT FIRM. DO NOT MAKE THREATS.

Infringements on one's right to privacy should be guarded just as zealously as the right to free expression and arms.

Standing Wolf
May 23, 2005, 12:21 AM
Contact advertisers and air your displeasure. Tell them you will not be patronizing them.

Yep. The bulk of any newspaper's income is comprised of advertising dollars. Take those away, and the "reporters" are back flipping hamburgers.

TonkinTwentyMil
May 23, 2005, 12:28 AM
There's a similar -- and longer -- thread on this topic on the THR "General" thread right now.

Some very good response actions are discussed there.

Second Amendment advocates simply cannot take this egregious breach of privacy by the Bliss-Ninnies lying down.

jzzmusician
May 23, 2005, 12:28 AM
Thanks for posting that. I just sent the editor an email, (not an angry one) letting him know that I felt it was an irresponsible bit of journalism.

jzzmusician

jefnvk
May 23, 2005, 12:56 AM
Didn't a guy in Ohio dig up all the personal information of the Editor of a paper that did this, things like his address, and family member names, and kids schools, etc, and publish that information?

P95Carry
May 23, 2005, 01:08 AM
This is the other thread ....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139815

beerslurpy
May 23, 2005, 01:22 AM
Simple solution.

Publish the addresses of the editors of the paper and let nature take its course.

For spite, add in pictures of all their family members plus where they go to school, etc.

Oh noes the other foot doesnt like the shoe anymore!!!! :uhoh:

Gray Peterson
May 23, 2005, 05:05 AM
Well I hope that this will inspire a closing of the CCW records to the public.

0007
May 24, 2005, 04:25 PM
So it's safe to assume that these A**H**** published the CCW list for the entire state?

I checked the listings and it appears that they "only" published the names of holders in the immediate surrounding counties. Boy, wasn't that "special".

Letter going out to FL Sec. St. regarding need to close these files to FOIA requests.

dolanp
May 24, 2005, 04:35 PM
If someone loses their job or anything like that over this list I sure hope they sue the paper for lost wages and other damages.

halvey
May 24, 2005, 04:38 PM
Take those away, and the "reporters" are back flipping hamburgers. Reporters? Hah! They are out of work TV, playwright or novel writers.

I know, I wend to journalism school then wised up.

Erich
May 24, 2005, 04:39 PM
It's good to have an unlisted FL permit. :cool:

Dave P
May 24, 2005, 05:23 PM
FYI: Here is there poll

Poll >> Current Results
More than 5,000 people in Santa Rosa, Okaloosa and Walton counties have permits to carry concealed weapons. Does this worry you?

Yes

(13%)
No

(87%)

Here's what some people had to say...

Why should there be permits for arms? The Bill of Rights covered that matter at the founding of the country.
05/20/05 -- left by: Anonymous
People with Concealed Weapon Permits don't worry me. It's the Convicted Felons that can't legally get one, and get a firearm illegally, that worry me. They are the reason that I have a concealed weapons permit, and also the reason that I became a firearms/personal protection instructor. I was not selected as a juror in a Federal Bank Robbery Case because I voiced my opinion that any convicted felon that gets a gun, is up to no good. That felon was one that was accused of robbing several banks in Okaloosa County, and other Counties by the way.
05/20/05 -- left by: Anonymous
I'm not worried about Joe Shmoe having a concealed gun. The only ones who should worry are those who would commit crimes. Which is kinda the idea behind concealed weapons. Make the fools worry so they won't do anything wrong.
05/20/05 -- left by: Eruan
If bad people have to worry that their potential victims may have a gun it might just make them think twice about robbing someone. If a bad person trys to rob someone and gets shot, the recovery period will a time the bad guy can not ply his trade. If the shot is properly effective the bad guy will not be a repeat offender and his mother will cry, "How could you? He was a good boy." "No Lady, your son was a piece of garbage and got what he deserved."
05/21/05 -- left by: Anonymous

auschip
May 24, 2005, 05:37 PM
Simple solution.

Publish the addresses of the editors of the paper and let nature take its course.

For spite, add in pictures of all their family members plus where they go to school, etc.

Oh noes the other foot doesnt like the shoe anymore!!!!

Managing Editor -
Colin Lipnicky (More Info)
xxx Camden Pass Ln
Fort Walton Beach, FL 32547
(xxx) 863 - xxxx

The information is available, if you want to find it. Edited to add, that this number has not been verified. VM does not give the name.

countertop
May 24, 2005, 06:47 PM
If you go to anywho.com it will take about 2 minutes to find all their information out.

P95Carry
May 24, 2005, 06:55 PM
People with Concealed Weapon Permits don't worry me. It's the Convicted Felons that can't legally get one, and get a firearm illegally, that worry me. They are the reason that I have a concealed weapons permit, and also the reason that I became a firearms/personal protection instructor. Dave - apparently most supportive poll result and - some good feedback comments. Probably pretty much what most of the 87% would have said I'll bet.

Standing Wolf
May 24, 2005, 07:12 PM
Reporters? Hah! They are out of work TV, playwright or novel writers.

Sure. It's like I said: they'll be back flipping burgers if they lose their "reporting" jobs.

Zrex
May 24, 2005, 07:38 PM
LIPNICKY COLIN M & LORI B
400 CAMDEN PASS LN
FT WALTON BCH FL 32547 32547

Lets see what else I can find... oh! Here we go

Colin Montgomery Lipnicky DOB: 01/10/66
born in Kansas

married on 07/18/1992 to:

Lori Beth Geller DOB 05/09/62
born in North Dakota


Edited to add I believe Lori Lipnicky teaches Social Studies at Ft Walton Beach High School her work # is (850) 833-3300 ext 515 ---- yup - just confirmed its her voice mail.

Black92LX
May 24, 2005, 08:00 PM
love it.

now who is going to take out the ad in their own paper advertising :evil:

slydel0kt
May 24, 2005, 08:10 PM
I have manage to engage the editor, I hope you guys approve:

Dear Sir:



What exactly was the purpose of publishing the names of those lawfully armed citizens with concealed carry permits? I should think that if these ladies and gentlemen wanted everyone for three counties to know that they were carrying a firearm about their person, they would just carry their pistols openly. The idea behind ‘concealed carry’ is just that. Concealed. Not for all to know. Secret. Out of sight. See what I mean?

Or is it simply sensationalism? Stir controversy, sell papers, generate income. At what point does your paper’s collective conscience come into play? What about those on your list who’ve tried very hard to keep their addresses confidential for safety’s sake? Those who have kept their locations secret from ex’s who may pose a threat, or from a stalker who may be the very reason this person has a concealed firearm and permit? Any listing of a law enforcement officer, whether current or retired is a Third Degree Felony, not to mention the potential threat of retaliation from a disgruntled ‘guest of the state’.

And your listing of concealed permit holders has jeopardized each and everyone of those on the list to burglary. While its true that having a firearm about your person gives one a better chance of surviving a violent attack, it does not keep your possessions safe when one is not at home. It would be akin to listing all those within your readership who have jewelry with a value above $10,000 in their home. Suppose what the public reaction to that would be? Since we are on the subject of ‘public record’, how would you feel about your paper publishing your name and home address, along with your staff, and your work hours, and what valuables you have in your home.

Due to some individuals' negative personal views on firearms and Second Amendment rights, ccw holders on your list are now fair game for anti self defense employers. This list will no doubt be scrutinized by employers who hold a dim view of the right to self defense, and may be persecuted for being on the list.

Yes, this is public record. But this public record was not as easily discovered by the general populous until your ill mannered publishing of it.

I am certain mine is not the only letter of concern you have received. I am anxious to read your reply, if you so choose.

In closing, I ask that you be much more mindful of your actions in the future, and more respectful of the privacy of others. Even if it doesn’t sell as many papers.



Sincerely,



Dan

Next:
Dan,
Thanks for your email.
I'm not going to try to persuade you to another viewpoint, because
clearly
you think we were wrong in publishing this public information.
I'm curious; are you from Northwest Florida, and do you regularly read
our
newspaper? Let me know, if you have the time.
Thanks again,
Pat Rice
Editor


me:
Not originally from NorthWest Florida. I did spend 2 years in Bonifay, as a beef cattle agent for Holmes County through Cooperative Extension Service. Used to travel through your area quite a bit working with cattle growers and other agents.
As to persuading me to consider another viewpoint, please try. That was my point entirely: WHAT was the reason for printing the names?
While I am not a regular subscriber to your paper, I am a permit holder, and that puts me in a postion to voice my opinion, though not in your geographical region. Things that effect permit holders in any part of Florida, may/can impact me. If not now, then later as these type of events set a precedence.
While I realize what you did is perfectly legal, I am not sure I understand why. My thoughts being that if someone goes through the training and legal hoops to obtain a 'concealed' weapons permit, it is not something they want easily discovered. And while anyone with ill intent could obtain the same information through the same state channels you did, your paper simply made it that much easier.
So again, I ask with all sincerity: What was the point of printing the list? What did you accomplish? What made it newsworthy? Why not simply state the total number of permit holders? Why so specific as names? What exactly did that accomplish?
If possible, please feel free to contact me during work hours 07:30 to 15:30 east time at (813) xxx-xxxx. Or after hours at (813) xxx-xxxx.
Or, if you prefer, email me a number and time that I may contact you.

Dan

him:
Dan,
Thanks for your email.
We published this public information because we believe there is public
interest in knowing who in our area has a permit to carry a concealed
weapon in public. Also, it is a public record, and the people who have
concealed weapon permits appear to know it's a public record. We didn't
publish the list due to any political viewpoint. I personally believe
strongly in the Second Amendment right to bear arms. I also believe the
public has a right to know who is carrying loaded concealed weapons in
public places.
I hope this serves as an adequate answer to your email.
Pat Rice

finally me:
"We published this public information because we believe there is public
interest in knowing who in our area has a permit to carry a concealed
weapon in public."
This is my point: if its concealed, it is NOT meant for the general public to know. If ccw holders wanted everyone to know they had a firearm on them, they would just carry the gun openly. Part of what makes ccw work in reducing crime is that a ccw not only makes him/herself safer by carrying, they also make those who dont carry safer because criminals dont know who is carrying and who is not. Now, it is just that much easier to know. Just read the paper. And yes, some people know/knew its is public record, but that is a far cry from putting it in the newsapaper. Do you publish everyone's tax information? Hunting license holders? DMV records? Prison sentences and records after release?
In some states, it is forbidden for anyone to publish concealed handgun permit information. I believe that the best choice for Florida's ccw holders is to pursue the same legistation to protect our (ccw holder's) rights and privacy.
Again, I can see no reason to publish names versus just publishing numbers. I would think that any thug who reads that up to 5k citizens in the local area MAY be carrying at any time would re think his postition on certain types of crime, as he can bet there is a good chance one of his victims may be armed. Now, with an easily found list, he can better his chances.

Dan


How am I doing?

Dan

P95Carry
May 24, 2005, 08:16 PM
Dan - you did pretty good. :) Even if a degree of - :banghead:

I notice now that the first reply sent out is a pro forma .....
insert name here,
Thanks for your email. I'm not going to try to persuade you to another viewpoint, because clearly you think we were wrong in publishing this public information. I'm curious; are you from Northwest Florida, and do you regularly read our newspaper? Let me know, if you have the time.
Thanks again,
Pat Rice Editor

I've been seeing quite a few.

slydel0kt
May 24, 2005, 08:18 PM
I know, it seems he has danced all around the issue of : WHY?

I have listed numerous reasons why not to list. And yet, other than 'public interest', he has listed 0.

Dan

craig
May 24, 2005, 08:36 PM
countertop... you are correct. that is the publishers address. here's the editors(as revealed by an email response to their paper) Patrick Rice..1003 Sandra Dr. Mary Esther Fl. 32569. the reporters, Wendy Victora and Kari Barlow have not seen fit to release their addresses. but you can contact them at wendyv@nwfdailynews.com... 1-850-863-1111.ex.478...karib@nwfdailynews.com..1-850-863-1111.ex440 they also have this number listed.. 1-800-755-1185. the publisher's email..tomc@nwfdailynews.com.. the editor's email..patrickr@nwfdailynews.com.. editor's phone..1-850-863-1111. ex.400

peacefuljeffrey
May 25, 2005, 10:54 AM
Dan,
Thanks for your email.
We published this public information because we believe there is public
interest in knowing who in our area has a permit to carry a concealed
weapon in public. Also, it is a public record, and the people who have
concealed weapon permits appear to know it's a public record. We didn't
publish the list due to any political viewpoint. I personally believe
strongly in the Second Amendment right to bear arms. I also believe the
public has a right to know who is carrying loaded concealed weapons in
public places.
I hope this serves as an adequate answer to your email.
Pat Rice

No, Pat, you didn't do it because there is a public interest in knowing who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in public. You did it because you ideologically oppose our having that right. Who do you think you're fooling?

Is the public really that concerned about possible criminal attack by those who have gone to the trouble of getting fingerprinted, photographed, background-checked, and undergone training in order to be allowed by the state of Florida to carry a concealed handgun? Really? Or is it more realistic to say that it would be those who have NOT gone out of their way to obtain LEGAL permission to carry a handgun are more worth worrying about?

I mean, if a person wants to go out and murder some member of the community using a handgun, are they going to be unable to do it if they don't have a CCW license? So, the dude down the street who's always causing trouble in the neighborhood -- if he isn't on your list, should we just assume he can never hurt us with a gun? He couldn't, of course, just take the pistol he bought legally but for which he doesn't have a concealed carry permit and bring it outside his house, down the block, and threaten us with it, right? :rolleyes:

The Pat Rice guy is a lying a$$#0l3 of the first order. No wonder Dan didn't get any kind of honest answer out of him. HE knows that WE know what kind of b^lls#it he's pulling here.

-Jeffrey

peacefuljeffrey
May 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
I just went here: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/access/help.html (http://) because I'm trying to search for the same info that was published by the paper in question, and I see that it does not provide for searching for the names of W permit holders (that's the designation of Concealed Carry licenses).

How/where does one search for the CCW licensees, anyway? I'm not finding it...

-Jeffrey

countertop
May 25, 2005, 04:36 PM
Just want to let you guys know that if you go to this web page ("http://officialrecords.clerkofcourts.cc/) and do a search of the publisher's name you can find his and his wifes social security numbers as well as information on his mortgage, ex wife, and other family members. They are all available for free in the public records the court house publishes on the internet.

Finding info on Pat Rice and the managing editor seems more difficult, there's stuff there, but not as much. I assume they've lived in the area for less time.

SJG26
May 25, 2005, 09:47 PM
way to go-------------------gotta luv technology

RevDisk
May 25, 2005, 10:32 PM
I feel bad about putting the info on his son up, but thought what goes around comes around. Do you folks think I should keep it up or take it down?

I'll dig the rest of the info up for Pat Rice and the Managing Editor sometime tonight.

Re the guy's son, I wouldn't personally. Going after family is not honourable. He had no decision in his father's activities.

Now, as for the information on all of the people actively involved, sure. They gave up any qualms about their own privacy when they invaded the privacy of others.

Be sure to include maps of the guy's house and even check out google's satellite maps.

craig
May 25, 2005, 10:35 PM
pat rice called me today. he's going to come by my work the next time he's in town, the office is right across the street. he did ask if i was going to cuss him or just yell at him. i told him no, that i wanted to explain that a lot of ccw'ers have reasons, aside from the 2nd amendment, for carrying. also that most ccw'ers do not really trust the gov. or the media because of their past performances and look upon the publishing of that list as another way to chip away our rights or make us out to be the bad guys because we don't want to depend on the gov. for protection. he also said that he's been rethinking posting the addresses along with the names. he did remove the d.o.b's on mon. and our names after my wife pointed out she has a crazy ex after her. maybe the calls and emails are making him think. thanks guys it seems to be working. i'm also trying to get an appointment with sen. peaden. he's customer of our store and the kid who works there's mom is the his secretary when he's in town. i'm gonna let him know that having this info available to just anybody is a bad idea. maybe we can get it changed to official use only. if and when mr. rice shows up i'll let you know how it went.

Fred Fuller
May 25, 2005, 11:01 PM
OK, so it's a public record. That means the public can view it whenever they want, right? So why is it necessary for the newspaper to PUBLISH a public record, UNLESS THERE IS AN AGENDA involved??

It stinketh... you FLidians should get your legislators to work changing this posthaste.

lpl/nc

countertop
May 25, 2005, 11:22 PM
FWIW - I took down the info.

First, i decided against posting his kids info as its not fair to the kid.

I ended up taking everything else down for the time being cause I want to think about how to handle this some before putting it up on the web.

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