Why Democrats Lie


PDA






Rebar
May 23, 2005, 01:22 PM
Excellent essay:
So why do Democrats lie? Well, for one thing, they have to. Democrats recognize that the vast majority of the American people reject their basic philosophy – as they did resoundingly in the last presidential and congressional elections – which says that all domestic problems can be solved with forced confiscation and redistribution of income, all social issues can be resolved by more and more government control over the citizenry, and all international questions can be answered by ceding American sovereignty to corrupt foreign powers like France and corrupt organizations like the United Nations.

Further they have to lie because their track record is one of utter failure. The Democrats had 40 years of uninterrupted social experimentation that yielded little to nothing that enhanced our democracy, either domestically or in terms of foreign affairs. Just like the failing regimes of socialist Europe and the failed regime of communist Russia, Democrats cannot point to a single time when leftism – including their own – hasn't brought despair.

http://www.therant.us/staff/guest/sayet/why_democrats_lie.htm

I'd only add, that their lies extend into their jihad against the RKBA, and the lie that guns = crime.

If you enjoyed reading about "Why Democrats Lie" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Gordon Fink
May 23, 2005, 01:49 PM
Probably for the same reasons that Republicans lie. :rolleyes:

~G. Fink

Rebar
May 23, 2005, 02:04 PM
Probably for the same reasons that Republicans lie.
Obviously you didn't bother reading the essay.

jefnvk
May 23, 2005, 02:41 PM
The flipside of this coin is that they believe that anyone who disagrees with them must be – can only be – stupid or liars or racists. In their self-serving, self-aggrandizing minds, they justify their lies in the name of doing the rest of us a favor, the better to get us to do what they believe is the "right" thing.

I can't disagree with that point.

RevDisk
May 23, 2005, 02:48 PM
Yep, politicians lie.

And of course, Republicans do nothing but defend the Constitution and Bill out Rights, also decreasing the size of govt. :rolleyes:

Vernal45
May 23, 2005, 02:56 PM
As to which party to support, it depends on how fast you want the Handbasket to travel.

Azrael256
May 23, 2005, 03:00 PM
how fast you want the Handbasket to travel. IMO, the speed is about the same, it's just what scenery you see along the way that's different.

Control Group
May 23, 2005, 03:45 PM
IMO, the speed is about the same, it's just what scenery you see along the way that's different
Yep. The Dems look straight ahead, yearning for the bottom, the Repubs look backwards and say it used to be better while both of 'em keep right on pedaling.

dasmi
May 23, 2005, 03:51 PM
They all lie. Politicians, in general, are among the lowest forms of human life.

PromptCritical
May 23, 2005, 04:24 PM
I'm getting to the point where I'll start endorsing the WORST candidates, simply to bring us to the point where we HAVE to "press the Reset Button". Better to get it over with now than delay the inevitable.

In other words, push past that "awkward stage".

Gordon Fink
May 23, 2005, 04:50 PM
Obviously you didn't bother reading the essay.

Not the entire thing, but I read the portion you posted, which had too much factual error to warrant my reading further. Does the full article make a good excuse for Republican lies?

~G. Fink

pete f
May 23, 2005, 04:51 PM
Are you going to collect social security when you retire?

if your S&L went broke under reagan and bush, did you collect your funds because of FSLIC or the RIT?

Yeah some dem's are jackasses too. but so are alot of republicans,

truman wasn't a bad guy, Johnson really did think he could help the little people, Nixon was a republican use a smaller brush you will carry more people to your ideas.

personally I like the Idea that if something happens to me, My kids will be a guaranteed death benefit from the gov;t till they graduate college. the republicans voted against that, called survivors insurance "socailism"


republicans lie too ask enron share holders or pensioners. you think ronnie reagan did not know about the contra missile fund? you really think Bush one did not know about about Sadam using gas on his own people till much later?

heypete
May 23, 2005, 04:57 PM
Are you going to collect social security when you retire?

I have about 50 years until I retire (I'm 22). I will never ask for Social Security, but if they give it to me, so much the better.

if your S&L went broke under reagan and bush, did you collect your funds because of FSLIC or the RIT?

Neither. I deal with stable financial institutions.

Yeah some dem's are jackasses too. but so are alot of republicans,

*nods*

personally I like the Idea that if something happens to me, My kids will be a guaranteed death benefit from the gov;t till they graduate college. the republicans voted against that, called survivors insurance "socailism"

Why not just get life insurance from a private insurer? Same stuff, less bureaucracy, you can customize how much money you wish to be paid out (at the expense of higher premiums), and you have a real person (not a bureaucrat) to talk to when you have issues.

republicans lie too ask enron share holders or pensioners. you think ronnie reagan did not know about the contra missile fund? you really think Bush one did not know about about Sadam using gas on his own people till much later?
Politicians lie. Period.

I really don't care for any politicians, with the exception of Ron Paul. He seems to be pretty decent.

Henry Bowman
May 23, 2005, 05:03 PM
personally I like the Idea that if something happens to me, My kids will be a guaranteed death benefit from the gov;t till they graduate college. Why is this the government's business? As stated above, you can buy private insurance for far less than what the government run program would cost.

Vernal45
May 23, 2005, 05:21 PM
personally I like the Idea that if something happens to me, My kids will be a guaranteed death benefit from the gov;t till they graduate college.

Thats not the governments business. The government does not owe you, or your kids a damn thing. It is YOUR job to plan for your children, if you opt to leave them something. NOT the government.


The government does not owe you a house, a retirement, disability, nada. Responsible people plan for emergencies. GEEZ, lets just kick the socialism stick into overdrive.

Rebar
May 23, 2005, 05:35 PM
which had too much factual error to warrant my reading further.
Looking at the quote, it all looks to be true. Can you point to these supposed factual errors, and prove that they are?

Waitone
May 23, 2005, 06:04 PM
Republicans in 11 shorts years have over reached in a manner that took the democrats 40+ years to accomplish. In 5 short years republicans made democrats look like small potatoes when it comes to spending. This from the party that used to be concerned with spending and the size of government. At this point there is no identifiable constitutional difference between the two.

Give the republicans another 10 years and they too will held in the contempt we hold democrats now. The problem with DC ain't democrat/republican. It is Incumbent/challenger.

Vernal45
May 23, 2005, 06:07 PM
The problem with DC ain't democrat/republican. It is Incumbent/challenger

Right on. I never was a fan of CAREER POLITICANS. Term limits should be made, existing ones enforced. Politicans that have 30-40 years in the congress is just BS.

Gordon Fink
May 23, 2005, 06:18 PM
Democrats recognize that the vast majority of the American people reject their basic philosophy.…

A majority perhaps but not a vast one, and I’m not so sure the Democrats realize it. Similar numbers also apply to Republicans, which is why both parties try to win the swing votes—often through subterfuge.

… all social issues can be resolved by more and more government control over the citizenry …

Not true. The Democrats want less government control in many areas, which are often the areas where Republicans want more.

… all international questions can be answered by ceding American sovereignty to corrupt foreign powers like France and corrupt organizations like the United Nations.…

Laughably untrue. While the Democrats do want to foster international cooperation, they certainly don’t want to cede American sovereignty—especially not to “corrupt” agencies.

Just like the failing regimes of socialist Europe …

I may misunderstand which regimes the author means, but I haven’t seen many failures in western Europe since the Second World War.

… and the failed regime of communist Russia …

Though ruled by a self-styled Communist Party, the Soviet Union practiced Leninist socialism rather than communism, though it was presumably the goal.

~G. Fink

RealGun
May 23, 2005, 06:18 PM
Why do they lie? Are any of them in any party entirely truthful? They are politicians, right?

I think the article is basically a lie, because it isn't honest. It is selling an idea, no matter what it takes. There is an agenda which requires manipulating the facts.

I heard a quote on CSPAN today that I don't recall hearing before. It was something like, "Everyone is entitled to his opinion but not to his own facts".

I won't say Democrats don't lie, but who should cast the first stone?

Art Eatman
May 23, 2005, 07:05 PM
rebar and Gordon Fink: A problem with the factuality of the essay is that it uses the word "all" too often, and ignores the realities of the Cold War.

However: Generally, it is factual. That is, the Democrats, moreso than the historical Republicans, do believe that a strong central government can and should solve social problems; further, that only it can do so.

I use the term "historical Republicans" as we're a long way from the days of such as Dirksen or others of his views. Even the now-retired Sam Nunn of Georgia wasn't all that conservative.

I note that LBJ began the War on Poverty. That was around 1966-ish. Roughly 40 years. We have had direct transfers of over three trillion dollars during that time. Census figures tell us that we have more people in poverty now than when we started. Gordon, if that's success, I sure as heck don't want to see a failure.

Again, I repeat that I have a problem with today's political labels; they're mostly inaccurate. Or inaccurate except as a very rough generality that is often inconsistent...

Look: Bush grew up in LBJ's Great Society; the son of a man who spent his entire career as a government employee. This is not an arena wherein one would commonly expect a truly conservative view of government and its purposes. Example: The Old Farts' Free Meds Law--which I see as a bribe aimed at me and others to get votes. It was an Algore campaign idea in 2000, per a speech in Tallahassee.

My own view, from some 40 years of watching is that the comparison of lying as between Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats' lies are generally more egregious. I haven't yet really decided which group actually believes the BS they spout. It may be that more Dems do than Pubes, which takes those individuals out of the Liars' Club and into the Society of Slow Learners.

Art

lunaslide
May 23, 2005, 07:24 PM
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Ahem, sorry had to be done. This is why politicians lie. The great majority of people are so uninformed about history, current events and political theory that they simply can't handle the truth without resorting to emotional outburst.

As for the Democrats, I think that the most visible ones are having trouble because when you support moral relativism, the end result is that you cannot say anything of importance without offending at least some of your supporters or without coming off as a fake (insert duck hunting pictures here). Worse, you tend not to really believe in anything except your own superiority over the dumb shmucks you can't convice to vote for you.

I'm not as concerned with those guys as I am with the so-called progressive lobby who are pushing hard to have their socialistic goals realized in the U.S. in any way they can. In particular, some mention that since they seem to be stymied by not being able to vote their progressive representatives into office, they will use the courts to get their constitutional reinterpretations on the agenda. This isn't conspiracy theory and I'm not using the term socialism in a hyperbolic sense. They make no secret of their mission. Here is one place (http://constitutionin2020.blogspot.com/) where you can read about their own desires and goals and how they intend to go about them.

How can anyone at this point in history look back at the past century and think "Wow, that socialism thing sure seems like a good idea!"?

Standing Wolf
May 23, 2005, 08:17 PM
I can't tell the Republicrats from the Democans even with a score card. At least I can figure out who the Libertarians are.

DesertEagle613
May 23, 2005, 08:22 PM
That's easy: if they're in national office, they ain't Libertarian :neener:

DRZinn
May 23, 2005, 08:23 PM
called survivors insurance "socailism"Maybe 'cause it is?

nico
May 23, 2005, 09:46 PM
How can anyone at this point in history look back at the past century and think "Wow, that socialism thing sure seems like a good idea!"?


I don't get it either, but on a board I used to post on, there was a guy whose sig was "capitalism would never survive without socialist economic policies." He told me that it was wrong to tell people that they can improve their place in life through hard work because there are a lot of people who will never be rich no matter how hard they work.

ravinraven
May 24, 2005, 04:41 AM
"As to which party to support, it depends on how fast you want the Handbasket to travel."

That about sums it up. I've heard it said that when the choice is between the lesser of two evils, the Republican is always the best choice. However, with every cycle, the Rep. gets worse.

Politician's lies are directly proportional to whatever outrageous crap we will believe. [Take a look at the Global Warming religion for a prime example.] Politician's ethics are sortta like fuel to a fighter pilot. The question is: "How much do you expend getting to where you can do some good with what's left?"

rr

davec
May 24, 2005, 06:06 AM
Ok, now wheres the article on why Republicans are fascists?

Selfdfenz
May 24, 2005, 07:23 AM
PromptCritical
Art E.

Excellent points.

S-

280PLUS
May 24, 2005, 08:18 AM
Which Russian leader was it that was asked , "If you were an American, would you be a Republican or a Democrat?"

His reply, "If you can tell me the difference, I will tell you."

Mr. X
May 24, 2005, 01:39 PM
He told me that it was wrong to tell people that they can improve their place in life through hard work because there are a lot of people who will never be rich no matter how hard they work.

He's right, but that doesn't mean they can't improve their lot and at least rise out of poverty; it's up to their kids to get an education and rise further. I'd also argue that if everyone became "rich," there would always be someone richer and things would rebalance themselves until the millionaires were "poor," the multimillionaires were "middle class," and the billionaires were "rich."

richyoung
May 24, 2005, 04:09 PM
things would rebalance themselves until the millionaires were "poor," the multimillionaires were "middle class," and the billionaires were "rich."


Sounds like Italy before the Euro....

Gordon Fink
May 24, 2005, 04:12 PM
Census figures tell us that we have more people in poverty now than when we started. Gordon, if that’s success, I sure as heck don’t want to see a failure.…

I never said it was success. Rebar posted an “article” about why Democrats lie. I replied that they lie for the same reasons Republicans lie, to win votes they can’t earn through honesty.

~G. Fink

Mr. X
May 24, 2005, 04:18 PM
Sounds like Italy before the Euro....

Weimar Germany and Mexico too. ;)

thorn726
May 24, 2005, 04:35 PM
to keep the balance i should post-

"this is the stupidest thread i have ever seen"


got to love one issue voters

If you enjoyed reading about "Why Democrats Lie" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!