Why REpublicans lie


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thorn726
May 23, 2005, 07:29 PM
had to do it.
obvious- FOR THE MONEY!!!

oh right, as long as you don't admit yer lying, yer not, right!?

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Mr. X
May 23, 2005, 07:37 PM
Hard to take a Berzerkley resident seriously.

dasmi
May 23, 2005, 07:39 PM
Mr. X, so what is he's from Berkeley?
All policitians lie, even Republicans. Think outside the party box once in a while.

MrTuffPaws
May 23, 2005, 07:43 PM
All policitians lie, even Republicans.

Amem to that.

MikeIsaj
May 23, 2005, 07:49 PM
this is one of the stupidist threads I have ever read, on any forum.

FPrice
May 23, 2005, 07:49 PM
All policitians lie

Does that include Libertarians?

dasmi
May 23, 2005, 07:51 PM
Does that include Libertarians?
probably.

2nd Amendment
May 23, 2005, 07:55 PM
Well, there's a problem with that blanket claim "All politicians lie". That is the question of why they lie.

For Repubs they lied in the past for their own wealth or power, or sometimes because they felt it necessary to get the job done. For Dems the lies come because the ideology is bankrupt. They have no choice. You can't be a leftist and honest. The two are mutually exclusive. You can't tax yourself rich, kill 1,5 million kids a year and talk about life, preach tolerance while bashing everyone who disagrees with you, claim to love America while working for globalism and appeasing terrorists and despots, etc.

Sadly more recent examples of Repub lying are because they have become too much like the Dems.

lee n. field
May 23, 2005, 08:15 PM
Why REpublicans lie

They're mostly lawyers, same as Devilcrats?

Art Eatman
May 23, 2005, 08:16 PM
2A, your post is the only reason this thread remains open.

I hope that's enough of a clue for the next poster...

:D, Art

dpesec
May 23, 2005, 08:24 PM
well it could be in the job description or in the back pocket of the Jeans :D

AK-74me
May 23, 2005, 08:25 PM
no good will ever come from threads like this. They are just meant to get people fired up while the orginal poster sits back and watchs what he created.

dasmi
May 23, 2005, 08:26 PM
Agreed. Pointless, non-firearms related thread.

Flyboy
May 23, 2005, 08:45 PM
Agreed. Pointless, non-firearms related thread.
I disagree. This thread was a reaction to a similar thread, "Why Democrats Lie." It's point was to remind us all that, while we love to demonize Democrats, the Republicans are, as a whole, really no better on the points of honesty, reducing the size and scope of government, or preserving our civil liberties. I can point to individual counterexamples--on both sides--but we need to remember that neither of the major parties has our best interests at heart; both of them are interested in power, and are willing to do whatever it takes to sieze that power. The lies they tell might be different, but the end result is the same: an increasingly strong central authority that will ultimately curtail all of our civil rights, including our right to own firearms.

thereisnospoon
May 23, 2005, 08:49 PM
:what:

I can't believe any of you really berlieve that our duly elected officials would lie to us.

:neener:

jefnvk
May 23, 2005, 08:51 PM
I think it is much simpler than all of the above.

They want to get (stay) in power. All of them.

Biker
May 23, 2005, 08:51 PM
Then again, the question begs, would it be possible for a totally honest and open person to be elected to a major public office?
It would be a welcome change, but a recipe for defeat, I think. Honesty seems to scare most Americans.
Biker

RealGun
May 23, 2005, 08:58 PM
Then again, the question begs, would it be possible for a totally honest and open person to be elected to a major public office?

Bingo! You can't avoid telling them what they want to hear and expect to get elected. What they want to hear may either not be true, not realistic, or an inappropriate expectation. Mostly they want to hear that everything will be okay. I rather like that one myself.

tcdrennen
May 23, 2005, 09:03 PM
Not all repugnicans lie: Ron Paul. :cool:

Not all demonicrats lie: .....
..... uh, help me out here, folks.... :evil:

jefnvk
May 23, 2005, 09:11 PM
Not all demonicrats lie: .....

Zell Miller

jsalcedo
May 23, 2005, 09:14 PM
Politics is a fertile breeding ground for back door dealing, deceit, corruption,
lies and theft.

Both Democrats and Republicans lie like crazed crack addicted baboons.

Why?

When money and power are involved it takes a person with impeccable morals
to remain non-corrupt.

Good people who decide to throw their hat in the ring and try to make a difference either get disgusted and leave, play the game and compromise
or get stonewalled and forced out.


With the exception of Ron Paul there are very few honorable men and women
on Capitol hill.

My opinion is that people elect senators and representatives that will bring a bigger piece of the tax money to their home district.

Redistribution of wealth is the key to what keeps these crooks and leeches
in office.

Rebar
May 23, 2005, 10:41 PM
At least the republicans have an agenda and goals. You may disagree with them, but at least they have some.

The democrats have nothing but Bush-hate. No goals except to make Bush look bad, no agenda except to stop the republican agenda. They offer nothing but divisiveness and obstruction. Literally, the inmates are running the asylum in the DNC, they are losing ground everywhere, their left wing ideology is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Simply put, they deserve to lose. The left-wingers have siezed control of the party, and have steered it way past the rank-and-file "old style" democrat "Zell Miller" party members. The old core of blue collar union members don't like the harsh anti-patriotic, flag burning, obstructionist, left-wing socialistic nonsense coming from the party leaders, and they have or will soon jump ship. As they do, the party tips ever farther to the left, ever farther from mainstream America. The democrats will become more and more marginalized, more and more strident, more and more irrelivent.

Sleeping Dog
May 24, 2005, 08:13 AM
Does that include Libertarians?

Not yet. But wait 'til they actually have a chance of winning ... :)

Regards.

Steelharp
May 24, 2005, 08:18 AM
ANYone that says, "I would never lie to you..."

... just did.

RealGun
May 24, 2005, 09:26 AM
I don't know about factually lying, but Libertarians are also dishonest when they try to recruit people to a party whose platform is so radical and rigid that the party doesn't have a prayer of succeeding.

I guess their lie by implication is that one is stupid if not buying into it all. The tactic is consistently intellectual intimidation. What is a lie is that LP party members are smarter than other people. What is also a lie is that THR L&P is primarily libertarian. It might also be staunch conservatives that share the concerns about what the major parties are doing, including their own.

That said, my alternative is to work within my significant party of choice rather than abandon it to the current dominant forces. Given viable choices, including good leadership, I might do otherwise.

I am very proud of both my Senators and my House Rep, certainly by comparison to the past and other members of Congress. I helped put them there, and it was more than just by voting.

RealGun
May 24, 2005, 10:00 AM
The Washington Post has an article today that discusses Republican supporting business leaders' disaffection with the GOP's current direction. There is a $100 fee for permission to republish, so I won't be copying it here. Many here have groused about using a site that requires registration (washingtonpost.com), but I use it daily with no problems. Here is the link Business Groups Tire of GOP Focus On Social Issues (http://tinyurl.com/dtf5q) .

The relevancy, I believe, is that what was said during the campaign is not the reality so far in this Presidency and Congressional session.

Master Blaster
May 24, 2005, 10:22 AM
Republicans lie because they have to compete with the Democrats who are much better much more practiced liars. You know like how democrats are the party of minorities, when they opposed the civil rights act, and rode around in white hooded sheets for 100 years lynching blacks and keeping the jim crow laws alive in the south. And to this day they still promote the cult of victimhood and the idea that you can rely on the governmant more than yourself to end poverty and despair. Tell me how many minorities were lifted out of poverty and despair by welfare????????? The republicans preach education hard work and self reliance, who is right??????? HMMMMM?????

Zach S
May 24, 2005, 10:37 AM
this is one of the stupidist threads I have ever read, on any forum.

edited: Link deleted. The staff may see it as a forum war...

SteveS
May 24, 2005, 01:20 PM
They're mostly lawyers, same as Devilcrats?

That is even stupider than the original post. I would say that everyone lies...or at least anyone that has ever been in any kind of relationship and has been asked the question, "does this make me look fat?"

Werewolf
May 24, 2005, 01:21 PM
Why do politicians lie?

Because they regularly get away with it and are rarely called to account for it.

And why is THAT?

1) The electorate is too stupid to notice (really - illiteracy abounds) :scrutiny:
2) The electorate doesn't care to notice :barf:
3) Those who do notice don't care :banghead:
4) The electorate wants to believe :uhoh:

GhostRider66
May 24, 2005, 01:32 PM
Not all repugnicans lie: Ron Paul.

Well sure he does. He's lying about being a Republican. :neener:

Lone_Gunman
May 24, 2005, 01:32 PM
Republicans don't lie, they simply make decisions based on erroneous intelligence.

dasmi
May 24, 2005, 01:33 PM
or at least anyone that has ever been in any kind of relationship and has been asked the question, "does this make me look fat?"
I've answered that honestly. It actually worked out for the best, because she looked much better in the outfit she eventually settled on, and every man likes to go out on the town with a gorgeous woman on his arm. :D

Mr. X
May 24, 2005, 02:05 PM
Mr. X, so what is he's from Berkeley?
All policitians lie, even Republicans. Think outside the party box once in a while.

Don't I know it, but the thought of anyone nuts enough to live in Berkeley being able to make a cogent point just beggars belief. Rather, this sounds like another progressive/anarchist/liberal canard, repeated in its Nth iteration - no thinking required.

RealGun
May 24, 2005, 02:11 PM
In any case, I prefer the GOP, members of which tend to take the high road. Now which party comes to mind when you think of vitriol, acrimony, shrill statements, fabrications, obstructionism on party lines, name calling, etc.? Frankly, I think there is a lot of party affiliation merely by type of personality.

Byron Quick
May 24, 2005, 03:27 PM
Not all repugnicans lie: Ron Paul.

Examine Mr. Paul's history. He's libertarian. He ran as a Republican to get elected but the Republican Party doesn't support his campaigns. For good reason. He keeps calling them on lies:D The party finds it more difficult to slough off the calls for truth from one of its own. I know many former Republican Party county chairmen here in Georgia who have quit the party because of the party's lies.

Basically, if they are politicians who hold office then they are guilty until proven innocent.

And the charge that the Libertarian Party is rigid. Your point is what? Yes, there are positions that one cannot have and claim to be a Libertarian for the Libertarian Party will throw you out...publicly. You can't believe in conscription. You can't believe that the Second Amendment is not an individual right that does not mean exactly what it says. Republicans and Democrats in elected office can believe in whatever idiocy floats their boats-and do. Libertarians can support the party platform or hit the road.

It's true that as long as Americans dislike honesty in politics that Libertarians will have difficulty in being elected. Tell me: is this an indictment of the Libertarian Party for dishonesty or an indictment of the American people?

Rebar
May 24, 2005, 03:45 PM
Tell me: is this an indictment of the Libertarian Party for dishonesty or an indictment of the American people?
I think the utter failure of the libertarians is due far more to their sheer incompetence in running a political party, then anything else. 30+ years, and they still haven't elected a single national candidate? Or even a significant number of state representatives or senators? Rediculous, even the socialists have someone in the house (Bernie Sanders). If the socialists are doing better than you, you're obviously doing something wrong.

Supposedly they're the 3rd largest party in America, yet they can barely get a few people on city councils. The national and state organizations are useless, they need to get fired and replaced by competent people, or the party should disban to stop wasting money and time.

tcdrennen
May 24, 2005, 03:47 PM
Byron-

I'm well aware of Mr. Paul's history - I've voted Libertarian in every election since 1972 (Dr. John Hospers for President!) and thus for Paul for Pres when he ran on the LP ticket. Hoever, I am not a member of the Party - in the 2000 primary I was one of the eight people in Orange County CA who voted for L. Neil Smith for LP Presidential candidate. That may indicate my disagreements with the LP on emphases if not principles.

And at least one LP Kali Assembly candidate scored an 'F' on the Gun Owners of California/America 2004 pre-election questionnaire; a few of others were rated 'C' and worse.

However, the repugnicans accept Paul in their caucus; half of the Kalifornistan demonicrat contingent are members of the Democratic Socialist Alliance (may have the name wrong there) and the House Dems have a Socialist (Bernie Sanders [sp?])in their caucus.

While Republicrats and Demicans may be two sides of the same base metal coin, at least the Reps have room in their tent for a libertarian, while Dems' center seems socialist at least and Marxist at heart.

GhostRider66
May 24, 2005, 04:51 PM
I think the utter failure of the libertarians is due far more to their sheer incompetence in running a political party, then anything else. 30+ years, and they still haven't elected a single national candidate? Or even a significant number of state representatives or senators? Rediculous, even the socialists have someone in the house (Bernie Sanders). If the socialists are doing better than you, you're obviously doing something wrong.

I would take issue with that assessment. The bottom line as I see it is the utter fear and double-speak amongst most Americans, Republicans and Democrats alike. The fear of which I speak is exactly what the Libertarians are fighting for: True freedom.

The Democrats and Republicans fear the Libertarians more than they do each other because they tend to speak out against the ways that both parties use and abuse government powers to further and protect their own agendas.

It's easy to denigrate from both sides because of the stands that have to be taken in the name of liberty. I often hear people say that I just want to be able to use drugs legally. Interesting thing is I don't use drugs, never have, and hate them with a passion. I just don't believe that it's within the goverment's power or our country's interest to have them criminalized or regulated. The same argument could be used for many things but the two major parties would rather play fast and loose with the Constitution than to live with the issues that result from liberty.

I don't think Libertarians would ever offer their views as the end all to all of our societies ills. The point being advocated is that a) government regulation doesn't help and often expands the problem, b) freedom is too high a price to pay and c) the Constitution doesn't allow for it. Sounds like something that both of the other parties should be fighting for but rarely, if ever, do.

Big Bad Wolf
May 24, 2005, 05:14 PM
Does that include Libertarians?

You bet it does.

While the Libs don't lie about their party platform and what they believe in they do however routinely skew, exaggerate, or just plain out leave out details when they publish articles criticizing the Dems or GOP for their own benefit.

It may not be a bold faced lie but little white lies, leaving out important details, or just plain not being forthcoming about all information concerning a subject is right on par with what the big 2 parties do every day.

It would seem that even in the Party of Principal morals are flexible right? Right?

thorn726
May 24, 2005, 05:34 PM
first, the fact that this thread is right next to the other one when i logged on.
second, that most of you don't get it , but some of you do-

this was exactly my point below-

I disagree. This thread was a reaction to a similar thread, "Why Democrats Lie." It's point was to remind us all that, while we love to demonize Democrats, the Republicans are, as a whole, really no better on the points of honesty, reducing the size and scope of government, or preserving our civil liberties. I can point to individual counterexamples--on both sides--but we need to remember that neither of the major parties has our best interests at heart; both of them are interested in power, and are willing to do whatever it takes to sieze that power. The lies they tell might be different, but the end result is the same: an increasingly strong central authority that will ultimately curtail all of our civil rights, including our right to own firearms.

thorn726
May 24, 2005, 05:37 PM
Hard to take a Berzerkley resident seriously.


heheheh.

kinda like taking a person from a state with the lowest ranking schools in the nation seriuosly???????

lets attack issues not people

Mr. X
May 24, 2005, 06:12 PM
Place might not seem like an issue, but you'd be the rare exception if you were a Berkeley resident who wasn't far to the left. Pardon me for doubting your motives, which you stated are to counter the "why democrats lie" thread. I rather believe that you were hoping to stir the pot instead.

Rebar
May 24, 2005, 08:11 PM
The bottom line as I see it is the utter fear and double-speak amongst most Americans, Republicans and Democrats alike.
I'd like to believe that, but I don't.

Simply put, there's a lot of folks who would join the libertarian party, the "liberal" republicans and the "conservative" democrats, to name some. The basic issues of the libertarians are great, and have a lot of appeal.

It's where the "rubber meets the road" where things break down for them.

Even after 30+ years, most people haven't heard of them, or don't know what they stand for. That's one tremendous failure of the party leadership, it isn't up to the "average" American to find out what the libertarians stand for, it's the party's job to make sure it's positions and issues get into the public discourse. They've failed miserably.

And they've failed, as I've stated, to gain any national seats. They'd rather blow the budget on rediculous presidential campaigns rather than get someone, anyone, elected to a lower seat, like a house seat. A party that can't even get one seat in the house, or get a significant amount of folks into a state legislature, will never get taken seriously. All that is due to one thing: incompetence of the party leaders. After 30 years, there's not a single excuse for their utter lack of success.

Success breeds success, and failure breeds failure, especially when you don't learn from your failures. The libertarians have spent a lot of good will and hope, without any results. Right now, it seems far more effective to work within the republicans to make them more libertarian, then to stick with the proven losers of the libertarian party.

1911JMB
May 24, 2005, 09:31 PM
I think a quote from my grandpa is needed:

"Republicans will steal your money and Democrats will give it away"

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