[Zeke Menuar]

Anyone own or shot one of these? I am really interested in one. It 's probably the only double rifle that is remotely affordable for a poor starving working stiff such as myself.

Thanks
ZM

[only1asterisk]

They aren't available yet, but have been "in the works" for some time. I'm not holding my breath, but if they ever come out I'll buy one.

David

[db_tanker]

I managed to handle one at the NRA show in Houston. I must say that it is a dandy. I have always had a hankering for a double...and as has been pointed out, it is much more affordable than a Rigby or some such...only one problem.



They (Remington) say that it is only as strong as a standard Trapdoor...I asked if they were going to beef them up to Ruger #1 capabilities and I got a nasty look...so....there goes my plan of a cheap safari rifle. :mad:

But it would still be a worthy gun for giving hogs the old left-right.

I think it also didn't come with double triggers...so unfortunately you have to work that crazy old safety as come on some shotguns. :(

Darrell

[rbernie]

They (Remington) say that it is only as strong as a standard Trapdoor...The same rifle is available in 30-06, so it can't be THAT whimpy...

I want one, but they also scare me. I just got my right shoulder surgically reconstructed from another accident - can you imagine accidentally setting off both barrels at once? :eek:

[rick_reno]

The pictures show them with double triggers. Anyone have any idea how they did their adjustable barrel regulation?

[rick_reno]

Just got a note from Remington on these rifles "Thank you for your inquiry. The Spartan double rifles have not begun distributing to dealers at this time. They should be available late this Summer."

I'll be watching for them.

[Jim Watson]

EAA had cataloged them with no actual guns for sale for several years before Remington got in bed with Baikal. Don't hold your breath.

[landon74]

There was another outfit making a .45-70 double rifle, but the price was pretty steep.... I thought the name was Kodiak or something.... but googling doesn't turn up anything...

Of the rifles I'd love to own a .45-70 double ranks way up there....

[nico]

They (Remington) say that it is only as strong as a standard Trapdoor...I asked if they were going to beef them up to Ruger #1 capabilities and I got a nasty look...so....there goes my plan of a cheap safari rifle.
In that case, maybe people should be bugging Ruger to make a double rifle. . . call it the #2. I think there'd definitely be a good market for a <$1000 double rifle (at least as much as for the $1) since the cheapest new ones now start at about $10,000.

[db_tanker]

I would be the first in line..."I would like a Ruger #2 Tropical, please?"

Get chamberings in 45-70, 405 Winchester, 444 Marlin, and perhaps 416 Remington Mag...have it set up with the standard express sights.


As I said, I don't remember seeing two triggers but I could be wrong.


And as to the 30-06 round...I don't know what their logic is in this...

Darrell

[rick_reno]

Re regulation of the barrels - I got this from Remington "There is a jack screw that allows you to regulate the point of aim on the barrels. The left barrel is considered a fixed barrel and the right a floating barrel. The fixed barrel is set at 50MM."

Re double triggers - the samples shown on their web page (http://www.spartangunworks.com/spr22.htm) have double triggers and the specs list them as having them too.

[0007]

Just to muddy the waters a bit, I have seen 12ga shotguns that were
"sleeved" down to 45-70 using full length sleeves. The limiting factor is the strength of the action.

[KarbineKrazy]

What about 45-90? I've heard stories of people shooting 45-70 through 45-90 like a .38 in a .357...

Also, if ruger made a double, put me down for one in .375 H&H...

I've always wanted a #1 in .375, but I just don't think I would trust it for the bears and buffalos...

[Harry Tuttle]

http://www.thegunsource.com/functions_getproductthumb.aspx?idproduct=33305
iZH MP221
http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/eaa_070604/

7.62x39 / 23.5"
308WIN / 23.5"
30-06 / 23.5"
270 / 23.5"
223R /23.5"
45-70 / 23.5"

olde pricing:
http://www.thegunsource.com/shopping_viewproduct.aspx?idproduct=33305
EAA 180940 IZHMP221 SBS DBL RFL 45-70
Our Price :$454.95

EUROPEAN AMERICAN ARMS,IZHMP221 Side by Side Double Barrel Rifle, 45-70
Government, 23.5" Blued Barrel, Walnut Stock


The MP221 applies modern technology to a traditional side by side
rifle. A reasonably priced side by side rifle with the traditional
methodology for barrel regulation (shims and solder). Fix one barrel
and allow the customer to adjust the second barrel to the first.
Therefore you sight in one barrel and adjust the second barrel point of
impact to the first via a jackscrew between the barrels. The jackscrew
is a simple answer to an age old problem of barrel regulation on a side
by side rifle.

Features include: Auto tang safety = Double triggers = Adjustable
barrel regulation = 11 mm Scope rail = Adjustable iron sights =
Machined steel receiver / mono block = Hammer forged chrome lined
barrels = Checkered walnut stock / forend = Extractors.

SPECIFICATIONS:

CALIBER: 308 Winchester, 3006 Springfield, 270
Winchester, 223 Remington, 45-70 Government
ACTION: Side by Side
SAFETY: Auto tang safety
BARREL: 23.5" Blued Hammer forged chrome lined barrel
SIGHTS: Adjustable iron sights
MAG CAPACITY: Single Shot
MAG TYPE: None
TRIGGER: Double triggers
STOCK: Checkered walnut stock
LENGTH OF PULL: 14.25"
OVERALL LENGTH: 40.5"
AVERAGE WEIGHT: 7.5 lbs
ACCESSORIES: 11 mm Scope rail

[steveno]

if Ruger decided to make a double rifle in any caliber it would probably 20 years from now before it was available and that would be after it was announced in the next 5 years

[morte]

The OTHER double rifle. I think pricing is around $5k(?)

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=280&lang=en

Morte

[Spinner]

As has already been noted, if the rifel is safe for use with standard ammunition in 30.06 calibre, why should the 45-70 ammunition be restricted to low pressure loads safe for use in older firearms?

The SAAMI pressure spec for 30.06 is 60,000 psi and the head diameter of a 30.06 cartridge is 0.470". That means that 60,000 psi is exerted on an area of 0.1735 square inches which equals 10,410 pounds exerted on the breech face.

The SAAMI pressure spec for 45-70 is 28,000 psi and the head diameter of a 45-70 cartridge is 0.500". That means that 28,000 psi is exerted on an area of 0.1963 square inches which equals 5,498 pounds of force exerted on the breech face .... about 52% of the force exerted by the 30.06 cartridge.

I can't see why the rifle couldn't cope with full power 45-70 loads in excess of the SAAMI pressure spec intended for older and more fragile rifle breech designs.

Having said that, I'm not lining up to be the first guy to test the theory by touching off a super-mega-whumpus load in it ;) and I definitely won't be lining up to try doubling it either.

Spinner

[Harry Tuttle]

interesting thread:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=doubles&Number=28566&Forum=All_Forums&Words=baikal&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1week&Main=28566&Search=true#Post28566

[jefnvk]

Just a side question, why is it that most double rifles are so expensive? Obviously the Remington is left out of that question. But the next level up puts you well on the way to $10,000.

Why are single shots so much cheaper than a double rifle?

[thatguy]

One of the big expenses is in regulating the barrels to shoot to the same point at a fixed distance. Might take several days of a highly skilled technician's time to shoot and adjust the barrels, which have to be soldered after each adjustment. The Spartan eliminates this by having the one barrel float and the customer adjusts it with an external screw system.

Also, the guns are likely made by child laboroers earning 25 cents per day. That will keep the costs down, too.

[Mr. X]

So these Remington rifles are ribless designs like what EAA is selling?

[Harry Tuttle]

The Remington rifles are the same ones that EAA imported from Baikal

EAA is no longer the US importer of Baikal Ishmash hardware

Remington acquired those rights

[rockstar.esq]

Why are single shots so much cheaper than a double rifle?
Same deal as over under / side by shotguns. They can charge more because people will buy them. There is no reason that the aforementioned jack screw couldn't be utilized more, nor is there any good reason that mass production couldn't apply here. It really reminds me of Gibson guitars. I once heard a salesman talk about his visit to their factory. He said that the entire guitar is varnished, dried and then the bindings are scraped by women, by hand. When I asked why he said that women have more patience. To which I replied "why are you removing the finish instead of simply masking the areas you don't want to coat?". His reply is "thats just the way it's always been done." It's no wonder that Gibsons cost nearly 3 times the competition!

[Zeke Menuar]

Unless these guns are horribly fugly in person, I will buy one as soon as they hit Monsoon Central. These are possibly the only double rifles I can ever afford in my lifetime.
Even at old-school trapdoor pressures, a 45-70 and big heavy slow lead bullets should do just fine on anything around here.

It would be really interesting to see other calibers like 303 Brit, 9.3x74R, 9.3x62 or some other classic round like that. I'd sell off a few milsurps for one of those.

ZM

[db_tanker]

with the amount of actual reloading material available for it...I would like to see what the potential is for a 7.62x54R is....I know its really accurate out of my M-39 Finn...plus its rimmed so its a natural in a single or double.


hmm...possible Encore project....

[Harry Tuttle]

One thing to remember about Russian gun designers,
They will adopt design aspects of other proven hardware into their products.

I wonder what double rifle sat in the corner of the office for the Spartan?

[zeke]

Has anyone had any direct experience with the 45-70 inserts EAA sold for the shotguns they could share?

Thanks