Small caliber high velocity pistols


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Andrew Wyatt
December 31, 2002, 05:51 PM
Has anyone done much research on Small caliber (.17 to .22 caliber) pistols that develop velocities in excess of 2700 feet a second from the muzzle?


I'm wondering if something like this would deliver decent terminal ballistics, range, and low recoil.

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HSMITH
December 31, 2002, 06:09 PM
To get the kind of ballistics you are talking about it would need to be a bottleneck case. This has been tried in the past with only mediocre success. Modern cartridges like the 357 sig have done much better, but are also much larger.

Jeff OTMG
January 1, 2003, 02:28 AM
RBCD offers a .357 SIG round with a 25 gr bullet at over 2800 fps.

Jim Watson
January 1, 2003, 02:51 AM
Search around for information on the 5.7 FN and the .224 Boz. They are about what has been done in standard size guns, but they aren't getting 2700 fps. That takes a Contender or some such shortened rifle.

okeydoke
January 3, 2003, 12:34 AM
357 sig, with 64 gr Mag Safes, outperforms them badly. 2250 fps in 6" barrels, not 55 grs at 2200 fps. :-)

Blackhawk
January 3, 2003, 01:05 AM
No research, but the idea is promising if a hot enough powder is used. Getting that high a velocity with a bullet heavy enough to have decent range requires a high pressure over the length of the barrel, not just a high peak pressure. Look at the powder chamber for a 5.56mm (.223 cal) NATO round. It gets the velocity over a 16" or so barrel, but it's got good range and terminal ballistics.

Seems to me that powder would be the problem, but if the other Catch-22 ducks line up, the powder will be concocted.

buttrap
January 3, 2003, 05:30 AM
Yes that is the idea that has yet to be the treshhold that can be passed to this day even unless its a few million bucks to start out with. A 76 grain HP at 3400fps would me really nice in a 15 round mag DA auto.

Tamara
January 3, 2003, 10:50 AM
both of those calibers are jokes. The 357 sig, with 64 gr Mag Safes, outperforms them badly.

Both of those calibers were designed to defeat kevlar out to 200yds. This is a task that I'd wager a 64gr .357SIG MagSafe would perform somewhat less than splendidly at.

Ledbetter
January 3, 2003, 01:43 PM
someone still made an auto-loader in .22 Magnum. I guarantee I would have one.

Marko Kloos
January 3, 2003, 06:19 PM
You can always get a used Grendel P-30, or an Automag II.

A friend of mine was trying to unload his P-30 today at the gunshow, with two 30-rounders. I looked at it and was again amazed at the crudeness of the design. It's an ugly POS, but it's an ugly POS that holds thirty rounds in the mag...

Lone_Gunman
January 3, 2003, 06:37 PM
okeydoke,

No offense, but I have a feeling the 357 sig 64g Mag Safes haven't been used enough in the real world to know what they out perform.

Marko Kloos
January 3, 2003, 07:01 PM
A .355-caliber pistol bullet weighing 64 grains has the sectional density of a dime. MagSafes, like Glasers, tend to either work very well, or fail spectacularly.

beemerb
January 3, 2003, 09:16 PM
There are people necking down the 7.62x25 in the CZ 52.They say they are getting around 2400 out of that handgun.
Bob

Gewehr98
January 3, 2003, 10:21 PM
They're using .30 caliber sabots, and loading them with .223 zingers. I'm getting ready to do the same for my CZ-52, and chronograph the results.

DMK
January 3, 2003, 11:49 PM
I'm getting ready to do the same for my CZ-52, and chronograph the results. Please do post your results! I was reading about that round in one of the gunrags. It looks like a pretty interesting solution to the lack of defensive ammo in 7.62x25.

beemerb
January 4, 2003, 02:15 AM
Sorry to disagree with you but they are making a barrel for the CZ 52 for a necked to 22 case.This is not a sabot round.
Bob

WESHOOT2
January 4, 2003, 05:44 AM
You want esoteric?

Too bad, it's secret.

Contact John Lawson (master Gunsmith) at www.thesightshop.org

Guru, gunsmith, thinker.
And ammo developer.

(Hope he don't get PO'd LOL)

WESHOOT2
January 4, 2003, 05:46 AM
Should add he's to blame for getting me excited about the 9x21 (about 10 years ago :banghead: ).

Chan Bates
January 4, 2003, 10:15 AM
>Has anyone done much research on Small caliber (.17 to .22 caliber) pistols that develop velocities in excess of 2700 feet a second from the muzzle?

I'm wondering if something like this would deliver decent terminal ballistics, range, and low recoil.<

What would be the purpose of such a round? Self defense?

Would over-penetration be a factor? A FMJ would go through a lot of stuff before stopping.

A small expanding bullet that spins that fast from a handgun barrel and is supposed to open almost immediately to impart energy in the target would likely explode, giving inconsistent penetration (virtually none, or if it didn't expand, too much).

The technology to produce such a round has been around a long time. It hasn't reached the market because those who have tried have probably found it does not meet a need.

As long as we are talking extremes, small/light vs. slow/heavy, can I suggest a bowling ball at 300 fps? Now THAT would stop an attack, even if the BG was wearing body armor! :-)

CB3

Gewehr98
January 4, 2003, 11:51 AM
I simply stated that it wasn't just necking down of the 7.62x25, over on the Cruffler boards the sabot technique took off some time ago. More than one way to skin a cat, as it were...

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