9mm handgun with least felt recoil?


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grimjaw
May 25, 2005, 11:23 AM
I've been searching the forums but can't find a thread that deals with this specifically. I know recoil is subjective to a degree, but doesn't hurt to ask anyway.

What handgun chambered for 9mm (autoloader of course) has the least felt recoil? Do you think it's by design or other factors (weight?)

One of the advantages of the semi-auto is rate of fire. Less recoil can mean more accurate followup shots. I don't really shot larger caliber semi-autos well, and trying to double tap with them is a bear.

Not looking for concealed carry, so size and weight don't have to be a factor. However, if you think a CCW has less recoil than something larger, go ahead and post it.

Thanks for the info or direction to an existing thread.

jmm

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helpwanted
May 25, 2005, 11:34 AM
I have a star bm which is all steel, but it still has more felt recoil than the Ruger p89.

pogo2
May 25, 2005, 11:42 AM
I believe the governing factor in recoil is conservation of momentum. Momentum is defined as mass times velocity, in a moving object.

When you fire a gun that you are holding in your hands, the momentum of the bullet leaving the barrel is bullet mass times bullet velocity. Equal and opposite momentum is imparted to the gun, so gun mass times gun velocity (backwards in your hands) is felt by you, and called recoil.

If the gun is lighter in weight, the felt velocity of the gun in your hands will be greater, because of momentum. If the gun is heavier in weight, the felt velocity of the gun in your hands will be less.

So to minimize recoil in firing a given bullet at a given velocity, use a heavier gun. The heaviest 9mm gun would probably be an all steel 1911 chambered in 9mm (38 ounces), or perhaps the new all stainless Sig P226 in 9mm. A steel Browning Hi Power is also fairly heavy.

Mongo the Mutterer
May 25, 2005, 11:58 AM
Whoa Pogo, what about the momentum which is absorbed by the slide?

My fiance likes my 1911 .45 better than my 9MM glock 19. Why? Less felt recoil. Why? Slide length and recoil spring size and length.

Gunhead
May 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
"What handgun chambered for 9mm (autoloader of course) has the least felt recoil? Do you think it's by design or other factors (weight?)"

Least felt recoil? A Kel-Tec P11 with 5 bricks glued on the frame:-))

Skunkabilly
May 25, 2005, 12:02 PM
Try something heavier like a Beretta or CZ.

pogo2
May 25, 2005, 12:05 PM
Mongo asked about the momentum of the semiauto slide. Indeed the slide has momentum as it is pushed back at a fair velocity. But then the slide reaches the full extent of its travel, and transfers all its momentum to the frame, which the shooter is holding in his hands. So the slide momentum becomes frame momentum, and is felt as recoil. The slide stops, then returns to original position under the force of the compressed recoil spring.

Sean Smith
May 25, 2005, 12:12 PM
It is mainly a function of weight, but other factors can help too. It is hard to beat a steel 5" 1911 in 9mm for low recoil.

AirPower
May 25, 2005, 12:16 PM
also don't forget the recoil as absorbed by the recoil spring assembly. The design of it and/or strength of the spring could soak up more recoil, and reduce what'ever transferred to the frame. HK's USP's double recoil spring for example works well based on this principle even though it's a polymer gun.

Jim Watson
May 25, 2005, 12:17 PM
Weight is your friend in fighting recoil.
As Sean says, a 9mm 1911 is a soft shooter. Heck, I even set up a lightweight 9mm 1911 and at 30 ounces it is still comfortable to fire due to the good ergonomics of the 1911 design.
Bruce Gray says shooting the P226ST is "like dryfiring with noise."

Snowdog
May 25, 2005, 12:59 PM
I've been tickled by the mild recoil from my Steyr M40, even while firing relatively hot .40S&W ammunition. This could be due to the beefy slide or perhaps by the ergonomic grip angle.

I believe the Steyr M9 uses the same slide as the M40. If so, I'd imagine the recoil would prove to be pleasantly mild.

FYI, CDNN (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/) is likely still offering the M9 for $299 new-in-box. This Austrian pistol is one tremendous value.

Mayo
May 25, 2005, 01:17 PM
If weight is of no concern, then your ideal 9mm for low(almost no)recoil would be a SIG P226 ST. Metal guns vs polymer will always be a good start.

mete
May 25, 2005, 01:30 PM
Weight is good but the recoil mechanism is also important. The HK USP works well with their recoil springs but the HK P7 has a delayed blowback recoil system which as most people comment 'recoils like a 380 '! So the lightest recoil 9mm is the P7 M13.

W Turner
May 25, 2005, 01:31 PM
1911 chambered in 9mm
Sig 226ST
CZ75B
Beretta 92
Glock 34
XD Tactical 5"


All of the above would be low-recoil alternatives. The Beretta has an aluminum frame, but my recollection is that it is a VERY soft shooter. The Glock 34 does have a polymer frame, but the weight distribution of the 34's slide and barrel help to minimize recoil. I ahve no experience with the XD.

W

JNewell
May 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
Beretta 92 would be on the list, near the top. It's a big pistol with a lot of weight out front and a low bore axis, all of which contribute to very minimal perceived recoil.

nero45acp
May 25, 2005, 02:27 PM
I would add to the other's list the Beretta 92 Steel I. Weighs 41.1 oz unloaded! :eek:

Also, the S&W M5906. I think it weighs around 37-38 oz.

Besides weight, a low bore axis helps to reduce felt recoil. This is one of the reasons Steyr's M9 is such a pleasant shooter.

If money is no issue, I'd say for average to big hands go with the SIG P226ST. Small hands the Beretta 92 Steel I.

nero

ABBOBERG
May 25, 2005, 02:27 PM
Newton's second law states that there will be an equal and opposite reaction to every action, so recoil can never be reduced for a given ammo. However, "felt" recoil can be significantly reduced. During percussion in the commom Browning-Petter action (Sig, Glock, etc) the shooter experiences the initial shock from the barrel starting to move, then feels a constant "push" from the slide spring being compressed, then feels another shock with any leftover energy the slide has as it hits the back stop. To reduce the initial shock, you need a heavier slide. To reduce the shock at back, you need to have a spring just weak enough so the slide lightly touches the back stop, yet is strong enough to chamber another round. Using a stronger (stiffer) spring with hotter ammo reduces this shock at the back stop by slowing the slide down.

I concur that the HK P7 guns have the least felt recoil due to what H&K calls "continuous motion". They use a very light slide, so at the instant of percussion, very little shock is felt as the slide begins to move. As the slide moves back, the gas piston resists the slide and pushes back on the frame with a smooth, fairly constant force. Again, any extra energy of the slide will hit the backstop and result in a shock to the hand, but this gas delay system has the advantage over the Browning-Petter action in that it is self-compensating. The hotter the ammo, the more the gas piston will slow the slide down - no need to change springs. You will always still feel the "push" or "jump", that is governed by Newton's second law, but you will at least get a very low, and fairly consistent "shock".

Marshall
May 25, 2005, 02:57 PM
USP Expert in 9mm @ 2.3 lbs.

http://www.hk-usa.com/images/media/productimages/uspexpert.jpg

Rod Farva
May 25, 2005, 04:47 PM
... but the size of the gun as it relates to my hand size seems to affect me alot.

For example, I have small hands, so the smaller 9mm's often have smaller grip frames which just fit me better and I can control the recoil of follow-ups. A Kahr K9 doesn't seem bad at all, while the Sig P226 and the Ruger P94 have an unnerving amount of muzzle flip for 9mm for me..

Relayer
May 25, 2005, 04:56 PM
Don't have a lot experience with some of the heavier 9mm handguns, but the recoil of my CZ P-01 (forged aluminum frame), is negligible, to me.

Of course, my other pistol is a Colt .45 ACP, so that may have a bearing.

Still, I pay literally no attention to the recoil of the P-01, and target re-acquisition is very very quick.

Rupestris
May 25, 2005, 04:57 PM
I have to agree with the USP, and the SIG 226.

My brother-in-law has a FEG (Browning High Power knock-off) that is relatively tame as well. Wide comfortable grip, plenty of heft.

KONY
May 25, 2005, 05:10 PM
I believe the Steyr M9 uses the same slide as the M40. If so, I'd imagine the recoil would prove to be pleasantly mild.

Ummm ... yea, so far my M9 is the softest shooting 9mm I have shot. Recoil goes almost straight back instead of up.

Morgan
May 25, 2005, 05:29 PM
The USP9 fullsize, with their recoil reducing double spring system, shoots like a .22.

JNewell
May 25, 2005, 06:59 PM
the size of the gun as it relates to my hand size seems to affect me alot

This is a very good point, and the Beretta 92 I mentioned will not likely be a great choice if you have smaller hands.

dk-corriveau
May 25, 2005, 07:51 PM
Mongo's fiance's preference for his 1911 over his Glock is probably an issue of mass distribution. With nearly all of the weight of the Glock located in it's slide, the "perceived" recoil (and muzzle flip) would be greater for a Glock than it would be for a gun chambered for the same round and of the same weight, but difference mass distribution. Personally, I'm a 1911 fan myself.

gc70
May 25, 2005, 08:02 PM
My son's Glock 17 is lighter than my Sig P228, but I do not notice any difference in recoil. Both guns have less felt recoil (to me) than the Beretta 92 I formerly had. My full-size 1911 in .45 is as pleasant to shoot as either of the 9mm pistols, although the character of the recoil is different.

The Drew
May 25, 2005, 09:04 PM
I haven't fired one but I suspect the new CZ SP01 which is a full size all steel gun should have very little recoil as it has a big hunk of steel that CZ calls an accessory rail hanging out front where the traditional 75's do not... That weight out there should reduce flip as well...

medmo
May 26, 2005, 07:23 AM
So many folks dislike the Beretta because it is such a heavy 9mm. I like my Beretta because it is such a sweet shooting 9mm.

Ala Dan
May 26, 2005, 08:24 AM
Probably a steel frame Ruger, as I know they have got a lot of weight
to them. Plus, you can run over them with a tractor and bush hog all day
long :D :D , and it will come up firing! :uhoh:

Grayrider
May 26, 2005, 10:25 AM
Having both an SP-01 and a 9mm 1911 (Para P18.9), I can say they both are mild in recoil but the Para wins out by quite a bit. The Para is heavy, and seems to have fairly heavy springs for the cartridge. The barrel is massive for the round, with very thick walls. Add to that the mass of a full magazine and you have a gun that is way over-built for the round it is firing. I have fired many 9mm pistols of just about every brand (including most mentioned above), and none had as little recoil as my P18. Mind you I have not fired a 226ST. That guns specs suggest it might perform similarly. Nor have I shot a USP Expert. All I can say is that I have never handled a 9mm that is as easy to keep on target as my Para.

GR

grimjaw
May 26, 2005, 02:35 PM
Thanks to all for the replies. The Para looks like a good choice, but I don't think I can reasonably afford it. Same thing applies to the SIG. The Ruger P89/P94 are 32/34 oz respectively, and I can try them at the local range. Just wish the mags were doublestack. The Beretta is also available there, I'll give that one another try, too.

jmm

albanian
May 26, 2005, 08:29 PM
Least recoiling 9mm I have shot was the Ruger P89 that I owned for a while. It is a large gun so it soaked up recoil well.

Other good ones were, Ruger P-95, Beretta 92fs and Star B. The Kahr K-9 has very little recoil for it's size and if you wanted a CCW with low recoil, this would be a good choice.

Shooting the Ruger P-89 was strange because I could feel the slide moving back during recoil. It seemed like it took forever for the slide to operated but I am sure it was only a fraction of a second slower than most 9mms.

BullRock
May 26, 2005, 08:35 PM
That's easy! The CZ 75... :D

Peter M. Eick
May 26, 2005, 08:59 PM
I find my 210-5 heavy frame has very little recoil.

Sactown
May 26, 2005, 09:03 PM
my SA 9mm 1911 is a very soft shooter. All that mass.

autospike
May 26, 2005, 10:31 PM
HK P7 M13 :cool:

MikeJ
May 26, 2005, 10:41 PM
My S&W 5906 is by far the mildest recoiling 9mm I own and from any others I have shot.

Seraph
May 26, 2005, 11:07 PM
Any full size, steel frame 9mm pistol ought to be a pussycat. My choice would be a CZ 75B or a Browning Hi-Power.

grimjaw
May 26, 2005, 11:32 PM
albanian wrote:

"Shooting the Ruger P-89 was strange because I could feel the slide moving back during recoil. It seemed like it took forever for the slide to operated but I am sure it was only a fraction of a second slower than most 9mms."

albanian, I had that same experience. Rented a P89 at the range, and the slide did seem to be slow motion compared to the other semi-autos I tried.

jmm

Seraph
May 27, 2005, 12:27 AM
The slide on the P89 is huge, with huge rails that have a lot of surface area. The mass of the big slide and the friction of the big rails might be what slows it down. It's been quite a while since I fired one, and I don't recall anything about the slide speed.

sabre2
May 27, 2005, 01:21 AM
Perceived recoil.
Mass of slide and barrel.
Recoil spring. Lighter equalls less perceived recoil.
Shape and area of grip.
Bore axis.
Flex in the frame and grip.
To my subjective feel. 1 is Glock 17L. 2 is Glock 34. 3 is 1911 9mm. :)

OkOkDude
May 27, 2005, 10:37 AM
I have owned about everything in my search for the best
I have found 3 that i would recomend for least felt recoil

1. (full size ) the beretta cougar 8000F because of the rotating barrel there is very little recoil and it is very accurate.

2.(mid size) The Glock 19C( compensated) also very accurate with very little recoil.

3. ( Sub-Compact) The Steyr S-9 less recoil than the glock 26 and walther P99c QA and very accutrate.

Shon

BullRock
May 27, 2005, 03:46 PM
my CZ P-01 (forged aluminum frame), is negligible, to me.
I agree with relayer on the above...

However, there is no recoil in my CZ 75B...Well, almost ;)

sm
May 27, 2005, 06:45 PM
It is mainly a function of weight, but other factors can help too. It is hard to beat a steel 5" 1911 in 9mm for low recoil.

+1

sigma 40ve
May 27, 2005, 10:08 PM
Out of G34, G22 with 9mm conversion barrel, Walther P1, Steyr M9, Star BM, SA XD9, SA XD sc9 and Arcus 94--the winner is Arcus 94 hands down. Less felt recoil than any of the above.

Boss Spearman
May 28, 2005, 01:19 PM
Beretta 92FS and the CZ75B have the least of any 9mm I've fired.

Black Majik
May 28, 2005, 04:11 PM
I'm gonna throw in the P226ST into that list also.

I haven't shot one yet, but I'm only guessing. Since weight seems to be the main factor why not this gun. This gun weighs even more than the 1911s. It must soak up recoil! :D

Zaire
May 28, 2005, 04:39 PM
My Steyr M9 is the softest shooting 9mm I have shot. The bore axis is quite low and the grip angle also contributes to this.

oweno
May 28, 2005, 08:19 PM
Steyr GB.

grimjaw
May 28, 2005, 08:58 PM
Out of these the CZ-75B and the Steyr M9 are the generally the least expensive. I like the idea of the 1911 with a hi-cap mag, but I can't find one in my price range (~$500 or less). Not much sense in having a 9mm handgun without also getting the benefit of the double stack magazine. I worry about the availability of parts on the Steyr.

CZ, looks like we're in for some time at the range.

jmm

Grayrider
May 28, 2005, 11:18 PM
Hmm...$500 or less. The CZ SP-01 is just barely over that....

:evil:

GR

IZinterrogator
May 28, 2005, 11:29 PM
Most plain-jane Beretta 92s in my area are around $525 NIB. The Inox models are about $50 more.

marklbucla
May 29, 2005, 03:33 PM
In the nines that I own, least to most felt recoil: (and scaled too for differences!)

1. 1911 9mm





2. CZ-75B
3. Beretta Vertec


4. CZ-PCR

3rdpig
May 31, 2005, 03:07 AM
I've got five 9mm handguns, Browning HP, Smith 3913, Kel-Tec P11, Walther P38 and a recently aquired Taurus PT92AF. Despite the aluminum frame, the Taurus has the least amount of felt recoil, muzzle flip and muzzel blast. I had a 9mm only day at the range with a buddy of mine recently, he brought his Sig and his Glocks. We had 1000 rounds of 9mm ammo, Wolf and WWB, we both fired all the guns. We were both surprised by the lack of felt recoil and muzzle flip displayed by the Taurus, it's really noticibly less than all the others. It's still not as accurate or as comfortable to shoot as the Browning (but what is?), but he and I were both mightily impressed with the Taurus. I traded a WASR10 AK for the Taurus with the intention of immediatly trading it away for another Glock, but after shooting it I think I'll keep it around.

CougarRed
May 31, 2005, 10:56 AM
HK P7 is the softest I have shot.

Rinspeed
May 31, 2005, 12:06 PM
The USP9 fullsize, with their recoil reducing double spring system, shoots like a .22.

The full size USP would have been my pick also.

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