Braztech single shot, shotgun?


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Omni04
May 25, 2005, 12:14 PM
Hello everybody! I own a ruger 10/22 rifle and a smith and wesson model 41 handgun. Since i am young i have been looking into buying a shotgun to experience it as well! Now i looked at wal-mart.com and the cheapest shotgun i see if a braztech single shot shotgun 410/28, and a 12/28. the 12/28 is looking good because it is dirt cheap and a 12 gauge.

Would this be a decent shotgun for somebody looking for a cheap plinking shotgun (but will still keep it loaded for home defense?)

ive never heard of this brand and if it as crappy as it sounds, is there another chear (under 150) shotgun that won't fall apart in my hands?

FWIW i prefere semi-automatics ;)

thanks everybody!

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foghornl
May 25, 2005, 12:36 PM
Maverick 88 by Mossberg.

12 Ga pump, frequently on sale as low as $139, nominally under $200. Dunham's Sporting Goods chain is usually the cheapest on the Maverick/Mossbergs, although you have to keep an eye on Dunham's sales flyers.

Not sure, but I think Braztech is a subsidiary of Rossi, made somewhere in South America. [Brazil, unless I am mistaken.]

The Rossi arms are reasonably well made, perhaps a bit crude finish-wise, but for the same amount of $$$, you can get the Maverick 12 Ga pump 6+1 or 8+1*** capacity, instead of a single-shot.

I rather doubt that you will find a New-In-Box auto for $150 or less, unless it is one of the Chicom knockoffs. (not recommended by me)

***Two different models, but still can be found for $139 on sale sometimes. Visit
www.MaverickArms.com for details. can also link there from Mossberg's site
www.Mossberg.com

unclestu
May 25, 2005, 05:01 PM
Ditto. Down here in Texas, several times a year Academy Sports puts the Maverick 88's on sale; blue steel, black synthetic stock(w/recoil pad, I think), 12 ga pump, 5 + 1 shell capacity, chambered for 2 3/4" or 3" shells, for ~$139. Save your $$, be patient & watch the sale papers & check the big chain stores, & you'll find one.

I have a Maverick 88 "house gun", & will tell you this: If I lost *all* my guns tomorrow, the first thing I'd want is a good 12 ga pump gun. And I'd call & start checking prices on those Mavericks. Some other brands are nicer, a few are probably better(Remington 870 Wingmaster,, maybe an Ithaca 37 for instance), but the Maverick is a good gun to start with that should last you for many years to come.

I'd bet you'll be a lot happier with the Maverick than with a Brazillian made single-bbl.

Omni04
May 25, 2005, 05:13 PM
you said i can find it in either 6+1 or 8+1? Does it use a drum magazine or one like would go in a handgun? How much would additional magazines cost?

Nuts590
May 25, 2005, 07:23 PM
no, it does not use a drum magazine... It's an attached tube magazine.
(Knoxx Industries does make a detachable magazine system called the Sidewinder but a shotgun won't come with one directly from the factory. see www.knoxx.com for more information)

See here for more information: http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm

Also, a thought to consider about purchasing a shotgun is versatility: A single shot will only be as good as the one barrel it has. For much less than the cost of a new firearm you can always get a replacement barrel. The listing for the 88's is here: http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/barrels.htm

Wal-mart may or may not be able to order one for you. But like has already been said here, keep an eye on Dunhams flyers. (I usually dig them out of the sunday newspaper first. Followed shortly by the comics! :D )

Another brand to consider would be New England Firearms (http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/index.php?cat=3&subcat=37#66), their pardner pump is about $155 for a no frills pump shotgun. Details: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3138431

As for semi-auto, the cheapest I know of is about $350.

Onmilo
May 25, 2005, 07:27 PM
Back to the Braz-Tech.
These are Brazilian made, crude by American standards, compare one to the more expensive New England Firearm or Harrington Richardson, but they are functional, hit where they are pointed and make decent starter guns or shooters for somebody on a limited budget.

I bought one in .410 bore to get my daughter accustomed to shooting a shotgun, paid all of $88.00 out the door, on sale.
The gun has had about three hundred rounds fired through it and is holding up just fine.

Eventually my daughter will get a 20 guage Remington 1100 youth, but for now this shotgun works just fine for her and she still gets all excited when I tell her "Today we will be shooting the shotguns." :)

Omni04
May 25, 2005, 07:34 PM
What about Charles Daly? I noticed they offer semi-automatics fairly cheap (just under $300) How's this brand's quality? Orriginally i wanted a semi-automatic but those seem very expensive considering i will only be using it for plinking and home defense (im not really a hunter)

are there any other cheaper semi-automatics?

Fred Fuller
May 25, 2005, 08:26 PM
Finding a good semiauto in your price range will be tough. But it might happen if you've been living right and luck is riding your shoulder. I'm very seldom that lucky but you might be...

Learning to run a pumpgun is like knowing how to drive a standard transmission- it should be a universal skill. IMHO that's where you should start, and grow into a semiauto later as your skills improve.

With a bit of digging around you should be able to find a decent used Remington 870 below your price ceiling. Check the used racks in the gun stores and don't overlook pawn shops too. Don't turn down a LE agency trade-in gun either if you can find one, a lot of them have a great deal of surface wear but are mechanically very sound as they get carried a lot and not shot much.

By the same token don't snub a good older model 870 Express gun- the finish is rougher and the furniture is beech or birch and not walnut but otherwise they are the same as the more expensive Wingmasters. See previous posts of mine to determine how to tell older models easily...

No need to settle for less when you can have the best, and still keep within your budget. Good hunting, whatever you decide.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

unclestu
May 25, 2005, 09:59 PM
Learning to run a pumpgun is like knowing how to drive a standard transmission- it should be a universal skill. IMHO that's where you should start, and grow into a semiauto later as your skills improve.

Well said, Lee! Absolutely right! :D IMO, the All-American, "Everyman's" gun, is the pump shotgun. If I could only own one gun, it would be a good 12 ga pump. And though I'd rather have an 870, a Maverick would do just fine.

"What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed..." ;)

Chawbaccer
May 25, 2005, 10:35 PM
If you get the single shot look for a H&R or NEF, they should be about 90 bucks and made in the US, Better guns than the Braztech in my opinion.

shecky
May 25, 2005, 10:55 PM
Local store has .22 mag/12ga. Rossi combos for $80. The seem decent quality. If it was a .22lr, I would have bought it long ago.

Omni04
May 26, 2005, 12:00 AM
well in all honesty, i could spend upward 400-500 if i had too. I don't have a shortage of money at all but i havn't even fired a shotgun before. I have a rifle and a handgun and i just want a little of everything. And im still young so i can't be too crazy with my spending (YET!!!!). My next big purchase was going to be a top of the line gun for my CCW, but then i relized i should have a shotgun.

and i just have a 'thing' for semi-automatics, maybe its my age...

but why is knowing how to use a pump action a skill everybody should know? I wasn't aware that it was that difficult. In fact i thought you just shot the gun, cocked it, shot the gun, cocked it, rinse lather repeat. but chances are im wrong on this as well!

but anyway if i were to up the price a little bit and wanted a reliable 10 or 12 gauge with a high capacity magazine, where would i look?

Campusninja
May 26, 2005, 03:17 AM
I bought a Brazilian single shot 12 ga. from another member here. Price was half a C-note, the guns condition was very good. Will be cutting the barrel down to 18 1/2". I have fed the gun some 3" 000 buckshot, Rifled Slugs and various target loads with narry a problem(my shoulder did hurt for a few days from the slugs).

Dave McCracken
May 26, 2005, 08:32 AM
Good used US made pumpguns that will function with a wide spectrum of loads and last well nigh forever are neither scarce nor costly. One of these will have much more versatility and usability than the single shots. They add a new level of meaning to the term,"Cost Effective".

Get a used 870,500/88,1300,or 37 and learn to use it. All are available with choke tubes and/or short barrels. Your great grandchildren yet unborn will thank your memory for it.

RoyG
May 26, 2005, 09:27 AM
Keep looking at pawn shops. You usually can find an older store brand for around a c-note.

I picked up a Western Auto Revelation 12 ga pump(Mossberg 500) for $90 otd a while back. This one came with a poly choke on it.

Found a Win 1200 20 ga for $120 otd also.

My son is shooting skeet with a 870 express 20 ga we bought at a pawn shop for $130 otd. It came with a mod choke though. Found a skeet choke for it on ebay for 10 bucks shipped.

I have seen the Mossberg 500 in WalMart for around $150 also. I think they can order them if they don't have one in the case.

Fred Fuller
May 26, 2005, 10:02 AM
"but why is knowing how to use a pump action a skill everybody should know? I wasn't aware that it was that difficult."
---------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's a fair question. And since I started the discussion I will try to go beyond the assumption that the truth of the statement I made is self evident and offer some reasonable explanation.

Shooting any firearm well really isn't that difficult- especially when it's done right. And learning how to do it right sometimes isn't easy. Performing a set of physical activities to accomplish a given end in an instinctive manner is something that has to be learned. It is my opinion- and that of others more knowledgeable and reputable than I- that it takes several thousand repetitions of any given set of physical actions intended to accomplish a given end to embed that particular skill set into muscle memory, and make it nigh instinctive.

The only way to 'learn' to shoot a pumpgun (or anything else) properly is to do it correctly, several thousand times, in a conscious manner so as to be aware of what you are doing while you embed the skill set into muscle memory. After that it IS 'easy.' But you have to do it enough while you are learning to get the thinking part of the process out of the way first.

As to WHY you should go to the trouble to learn- that's simply because the pumpgun is the most widely distributed/available of repeating shotguns, and having a thorough acquaintance with at least one of the Big Four (and a passing knowledge of the other three) is an absolutely necessary component of being a well rounded shooter. After all, there is no guarantee that everywhere you go and anytime a situation arises that you need/want to shoot something, you will have your very own set of familiar hardware along for the ride. I think it is important to know how to 'run' several types of commonly available firearms effectively even if you choose to own something else, and that is why I made the statement to begin with. I also think that having this familiarity will make you better able to honestly decide what is 'best' for you. Otherwise you are only making assumptions, and not genuinely evaluating data gathered by experience in making those decisiions.

But whatta I know, it's probably just MY age talking... you could probably learn everything you need to know from video games anyway 8^).

lpl/nc (it isn't the age, it's the mileage...)

Rupestris
May 26, 2005, 10:51 AM
I bought a Brazilian single shot 12 ga. from another member here. Price was half a C-note, the guns condition was very good. Will be cutting the barrel down to 18 1/2". I have fed the gun some 3" 000 buckshot, Rifled Slugs and various target loads with narry a problem(my shoulder did hurt for a few days from the slugs).

CN,
Glad to hear that SG is working out for ya. ;) You're a braver man than me for puttin' 3" shoulder bruisers in that thing. :D

Omni04
May 26, 2005, 03:21 PM
well, i hate to hijack my own thread but what exactly is a choke, and what impact does it have on shooting? I don't hunt or shoot skeet, but i will use it for home defense and plinking at the shooting range.

Also do shotguns have a definate 'magazine'?

And i would hate to go to a pawn shop looking for a shotugn because i have no idea what to look for! Sure, certain brands and models yes, but i wouldn't be able to tell a good conditioned shotgun from a bad one! I can't field strip it or anything and other than minor asthetics i wouldn't know if im getting ripped off or not. Nor do i know any reputable pawn shops in this area for fire arms.

On a side note when i was looking for a new magazine for my S&W model 41, several of the pawn shops thought i wanted the instruction booklet for the gun, not knowing what a magazine was!

foghornl
May 26, 2005, 03:55 PM
Single-shot (Like the Braztech) and double barrels either side by side or over/under do not have a magazine.

Pumps and auto-loaders do. Most are of the tubular design, where the magazine tube is under the barrel, but usually shorter. There are a few shotguns that use a "box" magazine, like some of the older bolt-action "Goose Guns" Those were usually very long barreled guns, sometimes as long as 34"

IIRC, both Marlin and Mossberg made the very long barrel bolt-action Goose Guns.

I'm not sure, but I think the Saiga shotguns also feature a "box" magazine.

"choke" is the constriction near the muzzle end of the shotgun barrel that holds the pattern of shot tighter. A "cylinder" choked shot gun has almost no choke. improved cylinder has more choke, ranging up to "extra-full" or Turkey chokes---the tightest constriction, so that the pattern of shot is smaller at longer distances.

Other folks here in this forum can give better definitions, but that is the gist of magazines & chokes.

HTH

Dave McCracken
May 26, 2005, 07:12 PM
Omni, use the advanced search feature with my name as author and 101 as the subject/key word. You've some reading to do....

Omni04
May 26, 2005, 07:29 PM
Man you use a lot of acronyms without clarifying... It took me 10 minutes to find out what PG stood for! ^_^

Any chance of making a "purchasing a good semi-automatic shotgun 101" any time soon? ;)


you must of put a lot of work into all of these articles though! i will mull them over when i unpack my computer from the move (im on break at work right now ;))

Nuts590
May 26, 2005, 08:21 PM
Omni04,

Let me give you two cents worth of free advice. Take a hunter education course if you haven't already. see below links for more information:

http://fw.ky.gov/calendar.aspx?Category=8&County=000&Month=*
http://fw.ky.gov/heket.asp

Those courses will probably answer the majority of your questions, it will also give you some quality range time with a certified instructor. Even if you never plan to set foot anywhere near the woods, you owe it to yourself (and to those that shoot at the range with you) to take the course. Some ranges I know of make it a requirement that you pass a hunter education course before they even let you join.

as for the semi-auto 101: save up the money for (at least) three pump guns or 6-7 single shot guns.... ;)

Omni04
May 27, 2005, 12:23 PM
ive been to the shooting range quite a few times, i learned all the gun rules from the members of this forum. And when i called up the Elizabethtown Police Department to take a firearm saftey course they said i couldn't take it until i was 21. It is only offered when you are applying for your CCW and im not 21 yet. So i am doing quite a bit to ensure safety.

Nuts590
May 27, 2005, 06:23 PM
That makes sense (the firearms course limited due to age) If my understanding if KY's hunter ed. course is correct though there is no age limit. Might be something to look into. :)

Ask anyone around here: There is no such thing as too much training...

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